Kayak Fishing Standards of Conduct & Etiquette

I tend to agree that there has been a lot of Shting on NEWBS, Youtubers, etc.. on this forum over basic questions or reports. I guess those people feel a  heighten sense of "Superiority' by when they can trash talk or belittle others (Nothing new here). There is always a portion of the society that thrives on DRAMA  .  I will remind everyone. At some point on this forum, those were the exact same questions and activities US OLD TIMERS, partaked in if you go far back enough.  It's nothing new, but the toxicity, language and judgement from members of this current community -- The TONE, has shifted. 

If you ask me AL. That is one, if not, the main driving factors why the forum has seen a decrease in activity and overall growth. New people don't want to share anything because they don't feel safe to. That is a sad reality. 

Pretty typical social group maturity cycle.  I wouldn’t worry too much about it.  I wouldn’t point fingers necessarily, people get out of things what they put in, and get what they give.  The post above mine looks like an example of that, but again, I don’t point fingers and would rather let folks verbally murder each other than try to police it somehow.  Put on our big girl underoos and get on with our selves.

As far as the original message goes, it’s hard to argue with it and you’re a good person to put it out there.  Nice work.

Good on you Keith for doing the community a service and helping to spell out some of the basics everyone should come to understand, at some point. 

Not that I disagree with the sentiment of being self-reliant and personally responsible, but I think that a lot of people forget what it was like when they first started into this sport.  Practically everyone I have met on NCKA has told me some "I was a total idiot" one time story that they learned from.  We all laugh at them and share them around a camp fire, yada yada yada.  While I understand the hard line we tend to take towards newcomers to the sport, for their safety and others, I feel like it's also disingenuous to think that you are superior because you have more experience.  Was I ready the first time I flipped over in the ocean.  No.  But I sure as hell learned from it.  Then flipped over the next day again 

Thanks Al. I know that I spelled out a lot of stuff that us old timers take for granted, but from the perspective of someone "completely" new to the sport it isn't always so black and white. For example, we take for granted that channel 69 is the recreational channel, but as someone who has never kayaked would you know?? I sure hell wouldn't.

I tend to agree that there has been a lot of Shting on NEWBS, Youtubers, etc.. on this forum over basic questions or reports. I guess those people feel a  heighten sense of "Superiority' by when they can trash talk or belittle others (Nothing new here). There is always a portion of the society that thrives on DRAMA  .  I will remind everyone. At some point on this forum, those were the exact same questions and activities US OLD TIMERS, partaked in if you go far back enough.  It's nothing new, but the toxicity, language and judgement from members of this current community -- The TONE, has shifted. 

If you ask me AL. That is one, if not, the main driving factors why the forum has seen a decrease in activity and overall growth. New people don't want to share anything because they don't feel safe to. That is a sad reality. 

I think it’s pretty disingenuous to link anything I wrote to newb bashing, any form of elitism, or notion that you cannot make mistakes. Self-sufficiency has been the golden rule from pre-ncka, crossing over from the kayak world……and from what sakana wrote, sounds like any sport in which there’s an inherent risk of injury, or worse. 

As you both mentioned, everyone makes mistakes, I have as well, and it’s the basics of self-sufficiency that keep them mistakes and not major catastrophes.  PFD’s, dress for immersion, learning how to read surf and water conditions, learning self-rescue (and being physically able to get back into your kayak) and operating basic safety equipment should be the pre-requisites for trips into any big water. Everyone should be taking responsibility for themself before treating their friends as a safety net. 

I must have missed the month long effort to discuss this on forums, otherwise I would have brought it up there. Either way, there’s plenty of free resources newcomers should be referring to in doing their homework. I’ll also say that every ”basics” question here asked in earnest, will receive quality feedback…..nobody is getting bashed.  I certainly don’t see this as trash talk at all and I maintain my original position. In fact, this further exploration of the topic is promoting safety…..which you stated was your intended purpose.

 

Lots of good info.

Wrt radio checks, kayakers are generally pretty good about responding, but boaters seem to seldom do so. In days with lots of boats and few kayaks, I’ve had to do a dozen radio checks just to get a response.

If anybody knows how to get a response from boaters, I’d like to hear it. I’ve thought about replacing”radio check” with “free beer”…

If anybody knows how to get a response from boaters, I’d like to hear it. I’ve thought about replacing”radio check” with “free beer”…

VHF-09 is the official channel for radio checks.  Out of laziness, I usually start my radio check on the intended channel (usually 69 or 68).  When I don't get a read back, I switch to 09 and perform my radio check there.  More "professional" mariners monitor 09 than do 68 or 69 (tugs, merchant vessels, etc.), so I have a higher success rate.

I will add that you should use proper radio etiquette and protocol when calling on 09.  Protocol and etiquette on 68 or 69 is rather lax in my experience.  A proper radio check would go like such:

Tune VHF-09, wait a few seconds to ensure the channel is clear; yield to other traffic
[kayaker] radio check, radio check, radio check on channel zero nine, over
[boater] vessel calling for radio check, i have you loud and clear, over
[kayaker] roger, i have you the same, out

Obviously, that's the "by the book" version and it may not be what you experience.  Other characterizations of your radio check might include "weak, but readable" or "broken and unreadable" or other combinations.  When I am no longer near the launch, I will also give my location so the vessel hailing for radio check knows how far their transmissions are reaching, e.g. "I have you loud and clear from the #3 can, over"

If anybody knows how to get a response from boaters, I’d like to hear it. I’ve thought about replacing”radio check” with “free beer”…

VHF-09 is the official channel for radio checks.  Out of laziness, I usually start my radio check on the intended channel (usually 69 or 68).  When I don't get a read back, I switch to 09 and perform my radio check there.  More "professional" mariners monitor 09 than do 68 or 69 (tugs, merchant vessels, etc.), so I have a higher success rate.

I will add that you should use proper radio etiquette and protocol when calling on 09.  Protocol and etiquette on 68 or 69 is rather lax in my experience.  A proper radio check would go like such:

Tune VHF-09, wait a few seconds to ensure the channel is clear; yield to other traffic
[kayaker] radio check, radio check, radio check on channel zero nine, over
[boater] vessel calling for radio check, i have you loud and clear, over
[kayaker] roger, i have you the same, out

Obviously, that's the "by the book" version and it may not be what you experience.  Other characterizations of your radio check might include "weak, but readable" or "broken and unreadable" or other combinations.  When I am no longer near the launch, I will also give my location so the vessel hailing for radio check knows how far their transmissions are reaching, e.g. "I have you loud and clear from the #3 can, over"

That’s great info.

In Santa Cruz, I start with 69, and if no response, I’ll try 9. However, I only ever seem to get a response on 9 from the harbor master, and nobody is there until 9:00am, so that’s not much use when launching at first light. Channel 11 has the most boater chatter, so that’s where I go to pester the boaters into responding when it’s early and no kayakers are around.

I think it’s pretty disingenuous to link anything I wrote to newb bashing, any form of elitism, or notion that you cannot make mistakes. Self-sufficiency has been the golden rule from pre-ncka, crossing over from the kayak world……and from what sakana wrote, sounds like any sport in which there’s an inherent risk of injury, or worse. 

As you both mentioned, everyone makes mistakes, I have as well, and it’s the basics of self-sufficiency that keep them mistakes and not major catastrophes.  PFD’s, dress for immersion, learning how to read surf and water conditions, learning self-rescue (and being physically able to get back into your kayak) and operating basic safety equipment should be the pre-requisites for trips into any big water. Everyone should be taking responsibility for themself before treating their friends as a safety net. 

I must have missed the month long effort to discuss this on forums, otherwise I would have brought it up there. Either way, there’s plenty of free resources newcomers should be referring to in doing their homework. I’ll also say that every ”basics” question here asked in earnest, will receive quality feedback…..nobody is getting bashed.  I certainly don’t see this as trash talk at all and I maintain my original position. In fact, this further exploration of the topic is promoting safety…..which you stated was your intended purpose.

. Sorry Art, I didn't mean to equate what your saying to newb bashing at all.  Just think that people forget that when they first start, they probably think they are plenty prepared or don't see the danger in the first place. Experience teaches these things, and that means learning from mistakes.  If they do not use good judgement, well then it's probably going to be a learning experience.  Sometimes those are good, sometimes very bad.