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Topic: Nontoxic Ammo  (Read 1509 times)

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Hojoman

  • Manatee
  • *****
  • Location: Fremont, CA
  • Date Registered: Feb 2007
  • Posts: 32015
June 2, 2022

Question: Many sporting goods stores ran out of copper and steel ammo at the beginning of the pandemic. How can hunters continue to use the correct ammo?

Answer: It is true that finding nontoxic hunting ammunition as required by law in California has been a real challenge during the COVID-19 pandemic. Several factors contributed to the ammo shortage during the past couple years including global supply chain issues, a lack of raw materials such as steel, bismuth, nickel and copper, and a huge demand among consumers who were buying – and often hoarding – ammo of all types and kinds.

The good news in the spring of 2022 is that the availability of nontoxic hunting ammunition appears to be increasing at most sporting goods stores. Availability likely will depend on the type of ammunition you are looking for and the time of year. Nontoxic ammunition for standard, popular rifle calibers and shotgun gauges may be easier to find in the brand and configuration you want compared to more niche rifle calibers and subgauge shotguns.

Similarly, it will be hard to find nontoxic dove loads and deer rounds right before those seasons open. The best advice we can offer is not to wait until hunting season to shop for ammo. Dove and deer hunters, for example, need to start looking now for seasons that open in September and might have to adjust expectations about finding their favorite brand and cartridge.

Additionally, different types of metals are used today to make nontoxic ammunition beyond just copper and steel. You may be able to find nontoxic ammunition more easily if you widen your search to include options such as bismuth, tungsten and metal alloys. These alternative metals can be even more effective than steel or lead; the downside is that they often are more expensive as well.

If you locate your nontoxic ammunition of choice online or from an out-of-state sporting goods store, you can work with your local Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder or licensed ammunition vendor to have the ammunition shipped and transferred to you in California. Licensed retailers in California typically charge a small handling fee for this service.


Mojo Jojo

  • Sea Lion
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  • Location: Tillamook, Oregon
  • Date Registered: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2043
You guys gotta get a FFL just for ammo down there??? Or just to import?


2013 Jackson Big Tuna.........Ours
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Otis

  • Salmon
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  • Location: Oakland
  • Date Registered: Dec 2021
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You guys gotta get a FFL just for ammo down there??? Or just to import?

It's for our own good ... or so we are told.

As of April 25th of 2020, you must meet the following criteria to purchase ammunition in California:

Be a current resident of California
Pass “Eligibility Check” aka Background check
Be 21 years of age or older to purchase handgun ammunition
Be 18 years of age or older to purchase rifle or shotgun ammunition


https://caligunner.com/california-ammunition-laws/


crash

  • Sea Lion
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  • Location: Eureka
  • Date Registered: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 6601
You guys gotta get a FFL just for ammo down there??? Or just to import?

They charge a $1 instant background check for each purchase and have a record of all your purchases. 

You need an FFL to import.

Not that that stops anybody who finds themselves in a nearby state at an outdoors store and sees something they want.
"SCIENCE SUCKS" - bmb


Mojo Jojo

  • Sea Lion
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  • Location: Tillamook, Oregon
  • Date Registered: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2043
Cool so I guess you guys got a lot less crime now….. riiiiight?!?!?


2013 Jackson Big Tuna.........Ours
2011 Native Mariner Propel 12.5...His
2015 Native Slayer Propel 13.......Hers
20?? Emotion ,Sparky.....7 yr old grandson's
Event Coordinator
Heroes On the Water
North Oregon Coast Chapter
Team C.O.D. FISHING (Crazy Old Dudes)just for forum fun challenges


Jewli0n

  • Salmon
  • ***
  • Location: Forestville
  • Date Registered: Sep 2020
  • Posts: 491
Cool so I guess you guys got a lot less crime now….. riiiiight?!?!?

Per capita, less gun violence and mass shootings than other states, yes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/us/california-gun-laws.html
@julianmariano


KPD

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: San Mateo
  • Date Registered: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 1873
It’s kind of bewildering that anyone would want to hunt with lead ammo, especially if they plan to feed any of the meat to their kids.


Rick

  • Salmon
  • ***
  • Location: Pacifica
  • Date Registered: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 957
You need an FFL to import.

No FFL, just a CA DOJ ammo vendor license.

It’s kind of bewildering that anyone would want to hunt with lead ammo, especially if they plan to feed any of the meat to their kids.

Terminally, lead performs significantly better than non-lead, especially at lower impact velocities. Most of the non-lead bullets on the market are crap. Lead projectiles are easier to obtain as well. Moreover, most of the meat isn't going to have lead in it. It is a big problem for birds if the carcass can't be buried or removed for processing whole though.


WillFo

  • Salmon
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  • Location: Petaluma
  • Date Registered: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 673
I thought you needed at least FFL 03, in addition to California COE to import ammo.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wild-game-deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban/

I grew up eating a lot of dove, quail, and pheasant, maybe that's what's wrong with me!

Hammer Hunter and Badlands Bulldozer are great for bigger game if you roll your own. Starting to see more non-lead rounds available, but yeah, it's expensive.


Rick

  • Salmon
  • ***
  • Location: Pacifica
  • Date Registered: Sep 2009
  • Posts: 957
I thought you needed at least FFL 03, in addition to California COE to import ammo.

For buying out of state and shipping to a CA ammo dealer, the receiver just needs the ammo dealer license and to be able to run the DOJ background check in person, not necessarily an FFL. To ship to yourself I think you need FFL 03 but I'm not familiar with that process.


Quote
Hammer Hunter and Badlands Bulldozer are great for bigger game if you roll your own. Starting to see more non-lead rounds available, but yeah, it's expensive.

Hammer Hunter is pretty good. The newer models are better since they widened the nose cavity. They could do better if they made the cavity even larger and sealed it with a polymer tip to prevent folding/yawing. I wouldn't shoot Badlands though, since they are not designed to come apart. Weight retention being a desirable quality in a bullet is a myth IMO.


sandwg

  • Salmon
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  • Location: East Bay
  • Date Registered: Jul 2018
  • Posts: 205
Another odd rub in this saga is that if you reload shotshells, steel shot is significantly cheaper than lead shot.  10lbs is $25 for steel, 8lbs is $48 for lead.  (Ballistic products website).  But at the retail side of things for loaded ammo, the prices are inverted - lead being way cheaper than steel shot. 

On the bullet side of things, I've avoided lead bullets for hunting for many years.  Quite bluntly, even the best performing lead bullets have 60 -70-80% weight retention.  Where does that remaining % go?  Just do this test, take a lead bullet and put it to a metal file and do a few strokes to make a tiny pile of metal flakes.  Roll a finger in it to coat your finger.  Now lick your finger.  No takers ever.  But by god, it's fine blasting it into my food?  And no, this isn't just a left wing conspiracy, some research has been done - this study looking at harvested deer:

"Of the 324 randomly selected packages of ground venison, 34% contained metal fragments; some packages contained as many a 168 separate pieces. Further analysis positively identified the metal as 93% lead and 7 % copper. "  Yum. 

Stealth Fusion / Hobie Revo 13 / NuCanoe Flint / Stealth Power Fisha 16


crash

  • Sea Lion
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  • Location: Eureka
  • Date Registered: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 6601
Another odd rub in this saga is that if you reload shotshells, steel shot is significantly cheaper than lead shot.  10lbs is $25 for steel, 8lbs is $48 for lead.  (Ballistic products website).  But at the retail side of things for loaded ammo, the prices are inverted - lead being way cheaper than steel shot. 

On the bullet side of things, I've avoided lead bullets for hunting for many years.  Quite bluntly, even the best performing lead bullets have 60 -70-80% weight retention.  Where does that remaining % go?  Just do this test, take a lead bullet and put it to a metal file and do a few strokes to make a tiny pile of metal flakes.  Roll a finger in it to coat your finger.  Now lick your finger.  No takers ever.  But by god, it's fine blasting it into my food?  And no, this isn't just a left wing conspiracy, some research has been done - this study looking at harvested deer:

"Of the 324 randomly selected packages of ground venison, 34% contained metal fragments; some packages contained as many a 168 separate pieces. Further analysis positively identified the metal as 93% lead and 7 % copper. "  Yum. 



Counterpoint: lead is much less likely to spark and therefore start a wildfire if you miss your target.

I'm all good with non-lead ammo but the rifle hunting season should be pushed well back until after the first rains.  Let us hunt the rut.  Close areas to rifle for fire weather and tack days on the back end of the season.  Actively manage for real dangers and for hunter success instead of what we have now.
"SCIENCE SUCKS" - bmb


crash

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • Location: Eureka
  • Date Registered: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 6601
You need an FFL to import.

No FFL, just a CA DOJ ammo vendor license.


It was my understanding that while technically possible many many wholesalers require FFL and the paperwork isn't set up for non-FFL vendors.  I could be wrong.

 
Cool so I guess you guys got a lot less crime now….. riiiiight?!?!?

We just have preferred types of crime.  Homicides, suicides, and violent crime in general has always been lower than national averages in California. Gun and ammo laws have nothing to do with that. 
"SCIENCE SUCKS" - bmb