Looking for advice Neoprene insulation.

Hey Guys,

I got a drypants and drytop still gets cold during winter even with my rashguards or compressions. Im beginning to think age is catching up quickly. Im looking at 2MM-5MM neoprene wetsuit as insulation. I 7MM farmer john find it get pretty hot. Between 2-5MM what would you recommend. I think since Im still to wear compressions 2MM?

TIA

I don't think you need neoprene.  If you are staying dry, you probably just need to add more insulating layers.

I don't think you need neoprene.  If you are staying dry, you probably just need to add more insulating layers.

Cool I will add more insulation any recommendation? Thanks

Darius, you must not be wearing enough clothing under your dry top and dry pants.  With enough clothing under your dry suit, you can stay perfectly comfortable in temperatures well below freezing and when it's blowing and snowing, and you can survive comfortably for hours in the water.

Here's my basis for that advice: I live in Montana, and routinely go kayak fishing in temperatures below freezing, water temperatures in the 30s or 40s, and when it's snowing or there is ice floating on the water.  I wear a dry suit with as many layers of clothing underneath it as are necessary to stay comfortable in the air temperature and weather conditions, and to lengthen my survival time if I end up in the water for a long time.  I also snorkel and spearfish for pike while wearing a dry suit in water temperatures in the 50s and high 40s, and typically stay in the water for 4-6 hours a day.  When the lakes freeze up, I go ice fishing, and stand around all day on the ice in temperatures as low as -15 degrees F.

For example, yesterday (November 22) I was kayak fishing on Flathead Lake.  The air temperature was around 30 when I launched, the air temperature got up in the upper thirties during the day, and the water temperature was 40-43 degrees.  On the lower half of my body I was wearing polypro long underwear and three layers of pile pants.  On my feet I was wearing two pairs of thick polypro socks under my dry suit's dry socks.  On my upper body I was wearing light polypro underwear, heavy polypro underwear, and three acrylic sweaters.  On my hands I was wearing polypro glove liners under 8 mil. disposable nitrile gloves: see https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=21815.msg227951#msg227951. On my head I was wearing a polypro pile hat under a nylon sun hat with a big brim. I was quite comfortable.

So you need to buy a collection of thick warm polypro pile clothing.  Acrylic sweaters are another option, and they layer up well.  Then learn how much clothing you need to wear to stay comfortable in various wind and weather conditions, check the weather predictions, and load on the appropriate number of layers.  If you can't get enough layers on under your current drytop and dry pants, get a dry suit which is big enough to accommodate those layers. If you get hot or cold during the day, a good way to adjust is by changing your headgear.  Add a balaclava if you get cold, or change your warm hat for a light sun hat if you get hot.

Because your feet will be wet and/or in the water much of the time when you're kayak fishing, pay particular attention to keeping your feet warm. Your footgear isn't what will keep your feet warm.  It's the layers of warm fuzzy socks under your dry suit's dry socks which will keep your feet warm.  Your footgear will get wet and full of water, and is only to protect your dry suit's dry socks and to keep your feet comfortable when walking and pedaling. Get footgear which is several sizes larger than your street shoe size so you can fit several layers of thick socks under the footgear without constricting your feet, which will make your feet get cold.

If your dry pants don't have dry socks, that's part of your problem. A dry suit with ankle gaskets exposes your foot to cold water, and the ankle gaskets constrict the blood vessels to your feet.  You can improvise dry socks by buying a large pair of Sealskins or other dry socks, putting them on over a couple of pairs of warm socks, and then putting your dry pants on with the ankle gaskets on top of the dry socks.  Many many years ago, before dry suits were made with dry socks, that's how I would keep my feet warm when whitewater kayaking in the winter.

As always, great info pmmpete. But, I smell worse than a homeless person when I wear polypro, so I'm a fan of smartwool...

As always, great info pmmpete. But, I smell worse than a homeless person when I wear polypro, so I'm a fan of smartwool...

Your dry suit is part of a 3-part system:  A waterproof layer, a warming layer and a wicking layer.  The wool you're wearing is your wicking layer.  It should fit close to the skin so it can wick moisture away from your body.  You have your waterproof layer -- the dry top and pants.  Now you need a warming layer.  I usually go with fleece.  I have some fleece pants and a fleece top I used to wear and a heavier fleece onesy from my drysuit days.  If you're looking to avoid the synthetic stink, look at Icebreaker's stuff... they do a wool fleece that would serve well for warming layers. 

Great advice above.  Even though us Californians are pretty soft when it comes to cold weather ( Temps in the 50s?  BRRR!), we can usually get away with a little less.

Under my drysuit I wear:

1) Merino Wool socks.  They wick sweat and keep my feet warm.  Costco has them seasonally a few times a year for a very reasonable price. 
2) Base Layers -  I use a sweat wicking under armour type long sleeve shirt, and tights that are meant for cold weather.  This wicks sweat away from the body, and also provides some insulation
3) Insulating layers -A polartec mountain hardwear  farmer john that insulates well.  I believe Kokatat, NRS, and host of other outdoor apparel companies have something similar.  In winter months, I will add an additional fleece sweatshirt over that. 
4) Wear a Balaclava and/or a fleece beanie to keep your head warm and dry
5) Gloves -  Find a pair that still insulates when wet.  I haven't found a great solution, but have been using fingerless kokatat paddling gloves and they seem to do the trick.

Like others mentioned, wear waterproof socks inside your suit. In winter I wear one of these self-heating vest inside my semi-dry suit or splashguard. Works great. I prefer the one's that have heating element around the neck.
https://www.amazon.com/Lightweight-Electric-Temperature-Control-Heating-S/dp/B08M9SHZ1Y/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=vest+warmer&qid=1606171617&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWlRWODlHSVFMV0g5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjU5NzYwMldFQzcwN1FPMDVKOSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTQwMDY3MkpDM0ZYQVJZNldEOSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I wear dry top and dry pants over an NRS 3mm farmer-john with an long sleeved NRS hydroskin shirt underneath. Its not just insulation, its insurance. plus you can pee in it.

I wear dry top and dry pants over an NRS 3mm farmer-john with an long sleeved NRS hydroskin shirt underneath. Its not just insulation, its insurance. plus you can pee in it.

You had me at the PEE Moment  Great advice everyone. Thank you

I wear dry top and dry pants over an NRS 3mm farmer-john with an long sleeved NRS hydroskin shirt underneath. Its not just insulation, its insurance. plus you can pee in it.

That's what I wore last time out. Base layer top and bottom, extra base layer hoodie top, Farmer John 3mm over that, and the dry bibs over all. Only problem I had was the feet on those bibs, too much bulky fabric for my neoprene boots. Have to pony up for a second set of boots I guess.

Both my wetsuit and the dry bibs have relief zips, so I can pee OUT of them. Awkward, but doable, and essential for this old boy.

I wear dry top and dry pants over an NRS 3mm farmer-john with an long sleeved NRS hydroskin shirt underneath. Its not just insulation, its insurance. plus you can pee in it.

Both my wetsuit and the dry bibs have relief zips, so I can pee OUT of them. Awkward, but doable, and essential for this old boy.

If you would have to pee in a wetsuit which you were wearing under your drysuit, that sounds like a pretty good reason not to wear the wetsuit.

Speaking of peeing, here's the best five bucks I ever spent on kayak fishing gear: A hardware store funnel and some plastic hose.  I run the hose into my Mirage Drive well or a scupper hole and pee in the funnel. Much nicer than peeing inside a wet suit!

Excellent advise!