Flush mounts standard on fish kayaks? for em, or against em?

Hey guys, Drew Gregory, with Jackson Kayak here.  Got a quick question that I am researching about how fishing kayaks come from the manufacturer.  I'm curious about what a community such as this thinks about this topic of flush mount rod holders as standard. I'd especially would love to hear from the folks that fish beyond the breakers and those that fish more inshore lakes and bays. I've heard a lot of negative on why manufacturers feel they must come on boats ruining the flat area where the angler could have mounted what they want there. It's been standard on fishing kayaks for a while, but with how educated the current kayak angler is about all sorts of accessories/options, should it be? Or, do enough people still use them, at the angle installed from the factory, to make it worth putting on straight from the manufacturer?  Thanks for any feedback you guys can offer! 

I paddle Ocean Kayaks, and I use the holders, and have also installed removable holders where I want them up front. In the ocean I use the factory ones for my net and gaff, and usually the rod I take is bungied along the side. In fresh water, I put one in there to troll, and the other in one of the removable holders. I like them, but again, I do not take a lot of gear with me. SOme of the guys that move their apartment into their kayak everytime they go out might have other input.

If I had the choice, I'd purchase a kayak without any of the flushmounts. I would rather install them myself and put 'em where it make more sense to me. When I got my second kayak, I decided to purchase the non-angler version and I installed the rear flushmounts and angled them more to the out side to when I can see the rod tips in the corner of my eye while trolling. Some manufacturers tend to point the fushmounts towards the rear and the rods are impossible to see and harder to reach.

One of the few features that I look into a kayak are the flat spots. The more the better for adding other mods like a fish finder or a few more other rod holders.

If I had the choice, I'd purchase a kayak without any of the flushmounts. I would rather install them myself and put 'em where it make more sense to me. When I got my second kayak, I decided to purchase the non-angler version and I installed the rear flushmounts and angled them more to the out side to when I can see the rod tips in the corner of my eye while trolling. Some manufacturers tend to point the fushmounts towards the rear and the rods are impossible to see and harder to reach.

One of the few features that I look into a kayak are the flat spots. The more the better for adding other mods like a fish finder or a few more other rod holders.

+1   

Although I still like flush mounts to have a place to easily stow my net or rod, they just aren't really angled properly for something like trolling.  If there is not another space near by that can be utilized for a second rod holder, then the flush mounts feel like they are in the way rather than helping.  The scotty rocket launchers are a good compromise, as they can be angled for stowage, or for trolling.  The scotty mounts are also adaptable to many different uses that a flush mount is not designed for.  What I think it really comes down to is options, since we use our kayaks for so many differnet types of fishing.  Some days I may want to carry 5 rods, others just one.  Sometimes trolling, sometimes on a DR, sometimes drift fishing, etc. 

I disagree with everything Al said  ......except this:

What I think it really comes down to is options, since we use our kayaks for so many differnet types of fishing........and diving

I think the market can be broken down into two categories....newbs and the experienced. 

Theres two universal truths about newbs, they're nervous about drilling holes in their new yak and they're attracted to gadgetry. I believe they like the fully rigged models and appreciate that they're ready to dunk, turn key if you will.  Most don't have the experience to know what they need anyway so it works for them.  I also believe them to be the majority of the new kayak market so it makes sense to have fully outfitted rigs.

Then you have the experienced.  Personally, I like a bare hull so I can tailor it to my needs, there's nothing worse that a poorly angled flushmount. I like mine running straight back cause I drag +2lb  weights when trolling for halibut and it lets you track straighter when paddling.   Or other mounts that get in teh way when you're trying to rig.  I agree with Mooch in that I'd much prefer alot of flat space to work with as opposed to pre-rigged gear.  It would be nice if you supply the flushmounts/rigging accesories as part of a kit that can be added to the purchase price.

To be perfectly honest though unless there's a new model out....I don't think very many of us actually run down to the shop to buy a new yak when we have access to a decent used market here in the bay area.   

      Myself,,,  prefer to have the choice.       Don't think there's a definitive answer to the question.

   Some like em,,, some don't.       I've  run this question by dealers  a dozen times myself.    But fishermen / owners will have their own  opinions.    Don't think I've never seen two yaks rigged identically, except for on the showroom floor..

Agarcia, I completely agree with your analysis of the kayak angler community - Newbies who don't know what they want and where they want it yet and Experienced Anglers who know what they want and where they want it. 

The only thing I will disagree on is in response to this.

I don't think very many of us actually run down to the shop to buy a new yak when we have access to a decent used market here in the bay area.   

I think you just might take advantage of the good used market to be a "seller" to free some money up when the new Jackson Cuda comes out!  I'll be making the promo video in a week or so (besides the one I already made of a prototype of the boat that was about 80% done) and I seriously think folks may be running down to their local shops to pick one up because it is one sweet ride, with the speed needed for big water and with the stability to stand and fish when needed!  Made by anglers, for anglers!     Seriously though let me know what you guys think of it for your waters when it comes out in the next 2 or 3 weeks. 

I am sensing that you will be introducing Jackson Kayaks to NCKA.

Drew can't wait to try out your new Kayak won't really be able to evaluate from a Video. Will Wheeleez Tires fit in the hatch?

The best Setup I have seen for flushmounts is Scawfish's Trident that has two on each side right behind the seat two facing stright back and two angled out for trolling simple and effective.

So, Mick, he has 6?  How many came with the boat?  I doubt all 6 come standard from the factory, probably just 2 I would guess.  Anyway, this topic seems to be about as personal to each person as religion is and everyone definitely has their own thoughts and beliefs on if they like flush mounts or even if they do if they should come standard at a certain angle or not.  Surprisingly to me more folks in the northwest like them coming standard and the folks in TX and FL just can't stand them at all to the point where they don't use them and don't even want them standard on the boat.  You guys are all making life on the manufacturer difficult!  Haha, but we'll make the best decision we can on this topic and I doubt it will affect any sales too much one way or the other.  We just at least like to hear from the anglers themselves before making these decisions.  I'll post the actual production model promo video when I get it made probably late next week.  Thanks again for helping us out here guys and if anyone ever has any questions about Jackson Kayak please let me know. 

So, Mick, he has 6?  How many came with the boat?

Yep 6  it was a  bareboat he is super at rigging did a lot of boats.

Never use the things...except rarely to keep my reel out of the sand on the beach...have 'em on my hobie, had 'em on my prowler== factory ones always put the rod where you can't see it- f'in stupid,, unless they are for holding your gaff or net.

I figured it put them there as I have never seen that many come on a boat.  So, his vote would have been to not include them on the build from the manufacturer. 

Depending on where you live, what you fish for the results are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum.  If we include them with the boat, a certain percentage will not be thrilled, but probably still buy the boat.  If we don't include them, the newbie feels that the boat may be inferior compared to other boats sitting next to it on the sales floor and may not buy it.  Its obvious that veteran kayak anglers would rather not have them, and I agree, because I would rather put them (or something else there) at the angle I want it. 

Good feedback guys!  Look for the new Cuda to be out in your area in just 2 or 3 weeks!