Freshwater Kayak Rod Research

Hey Guys- I am a custom rod builder on the east coast.  I am trying to get some input from freshwater and river kayak fisherman on what they would want in the ideal Kayak rod.  I am a fly rod builder, but I want to try my hand at a few yak rods.  It is growing in popularity out here, but mainly on the freshwater side.  Toss some ideas at me of what you think works, does not work, etc.  Thanks in advance.

Matthew Elrod
Elrod Custom Rods
2 Cor 2:14

I'm a big fan of the Loomis HSR 9000 light enough to have fun with smallies perfect LMB dropshot rod, great for stripers,Salmon and steelies and light rockfish. Casts like a rocket more than sensitive enough pretty good butt power and a joy to fish with all day. It's a pretty good trolling rod too normally I like a slow rod for trolling but with the fast tip it sure tells you what your lures are doing. I would love to have a 2pc but am not about to pay 300+ for a Kayak rod. When you get it built I'll shoot you my address and I will demo it for you.

I don't know enough about blanks to suggest one. But feature wise....I'd say if its a one piece keep the length 7-7 1/2 feet anything longer its hard to stow below deck. Any shorter and its hard to clear the bow if a fish runs. Make the guides strong. Yak rod take some serious abuse during normal use and when being stowed. I prefer foam grips and if you can make it float with a reel on it that is a big plus. Okuma has a yak specific rod but I think its more geared to the salt. I have two of them and really like them.

Hope thats what you were looking for input.....

yea i was checking those okuma rods out , i need one!

Yeah, I have looked to the Okuma rod for inspiration.  I am a big Okuma supporter (meaning, I have given the lots of money over the years...)  It is tailored a bit more towards salt, but it is a good starting point.  I am looking into the floatation aspect. 

thanks for all the input - keep it coming!

How many types of rods do you have in mind?  I could come up with many, but I'd like to say that most rod today are just too much (anything over $140 in my preference).  But just because you said so...I'd like to take up on that order.  

All rods should come with pistol grips have the extra strength with a lightweight feel ensuring maximum sensitivity.  I'm sure if you could better this version Ugly Stik Tiger Rods BWC 2201 70(quality cork handles or the same feeling I get from a Lamiglas Tri-Flex Graphite Saltwater Suede rod handle, a tad smaller-diameter blank but can still kick with the butt section, Alconite or SiC guides for braid line and fuji seats of course) with the same ratings for just alittle more dollar and still make that under $95.00 I'd sure go for it.  I'll stop at this one for now.  Also make sure you name it the west coast version.  haha!    

Yeah, I would like to keep it under 100 bucks.  I am talking to a couple custom blank makers about doing starting a yak line of blanks.  7'6 minumum length with super strong butt-sections.  I wanted to start on the spinning line first, but I am up for a casting model as well.  East coast, most yak fisherman (freshwater) use spinning gear b/c they are targetting smallmouth or largemouth.  Yak fly fishing is getting big too.  But, as far as bettering the ugly stic, that would not be too hard.  Those suckers are about as tough as oak though.  Thanks for the input- keep it coming guys.

Check out the trevala jigging stick from shimano . Awsome rods I have 3 different models .They use to be 99.00 but went up recently .My 0.02 . David .

I'm pretty new to this, but from what I've seen so far Trevala and Badairka(sp?) are favorites for saltwater. I have each and like them. But thinking of yaks, and salt water fishing, it would be nice if those came as 2-3 part rods -- if you can do that and keep them sensitive. For salt I don't think we're generally talking about super sensitive for the soft take of LMB or trout though.  Make them easy to stow for surf landings and you'd have a feature the others don't.

fwiw,

Ben

Matthew -

I build my own rods and a lot depends on what you are fishing for. Here are some general considerations...

Rod length - 6'6"-7' for casting. Hard to get the line arounnd the bow of a 15' yak with a rod <6' length. I use 6'6" mainly because it provides a nice balance between casting accuracy and distance. For trolling, you can use longer rods 7-9' length. St Croix makes a trout trolling rod which is 7'6" I believe. I used to fly fish until I started kayak fishing, then the addiction set in.  One of the advantages of kayak fishing is covering a lot of water by trolling. Most kayak trolling is flat lining although downriggers are also used. Stealth is another advantage and the ability to get into heavy cover without spooking the fish. Casting in tight cover favors the shorter rod. For saltwater rods where they are sometimes stowed inside the hull for surf launches, a 2 piece rod can make it easier. For traveling anglers, the $120 oversize luggage fees also makes the 2 or 3 piece rod attractive. For saltwater rods I like 7-7'6" rods.

Rod construction - kayak anglers are more likely to high stick when landing fish so you want a blank where the tip section can take some abuse. I use mainly second or third generation graphite blanks which I think take more abuse. These blanks are also less expensive. Fiberglass also works well for trolling and crankbaits.

Rod design - unlike bass anglers who fish from power boats, kayak anglers usually fish with 3 rods or less. I have seen guys with as many as 6 rods, but that is not that common. So if the rod is very specialized, pitchin, flippin, crank bait, wormin etc you are not going to sell many. Steelhead and salmon are the exception where specialized rods are often used and are often fairly long.

Manufacturer - I use mainly St Croix or Lamiglas blanks for freshwater. I used to use Loomis blanks but they have gotten too expensive for kayak fishing IMHO. The new MHX blanks look good but I haven't built one yet. For saltwater I use Calstar or Seeker for pelagics and St Croix or Lamiglas for inshore. The Lamiglas Inshore Classic is my favorite striper rod and very popular with the kayak guys in So Cal.

Leash attachment - drilling a hole through the trigger on the reel seat is the easiest way to attach a leash to a casting rod. Spinning rods are more difficult. If you have a long rear grip, you can leave a 4" gap in the grip for leash attachment like the Baidarka.

Floatation - using an extended foam foregrip is sometimes used. You have to sand it down on the reel side so it doesnt interfere with casting. Personally, I think floatation looks stupid, particularly on freshwater rods so I use leashes.

Cost - most kayak anglers are pretty frugal, particularly these days. Seems like most guys spend $20-$120 for a rod. I have lost a couple of rods overboard over the last 5 years including a Loomis and it really hurts. Over $150 and you won't sell many rods. A good example is the Lamiglas kayak rods ($180) vs the Okuma Baidarka ($100-120). Lots of Baidarkas out there OTW but I don't know anyone with a Lamiglas, even though the lamiglas is a much better rod all around. So what would make a custom kayak freshwater rod worth paying for? Maybe a hard core bass or steelhead angler who is casting artificials all day long. Most kayak anglers I know who bought a custom rod are saltwater anglers. Big fish like sturgeon, yellow tail and white sea bass push tackle to the limit and anglers are more likely to make an investment. On the east coast, I would consider building rods for saltwater kayak anglers who are targeting stripers, blues, red drum, sharks and those little tuna fish (blacks?). I fished out of Virginia Beach last week and there were a ton of kayak anglers out there targeting stripers and sea trout. The striper guys in particular might be more likely to invest in a custom rod since the fish can get pretty big and they do a lot of casting as well as some deep water live eel tactics.

What doesn't work? - you can use anything kayak fishing which is why the Walmart combo is often the weapon of choice considering there is always the possibility of losing it overboard. Be careful where you attach the leash, too close to the reel seat and it gets in the way with casting, too close to the butt and it gets in the way when you put the rod in the rod holder. On kayaks, the rods are stored in a rod holder so the the butt section has to be long enough to fit the common rod holders which are made Scotty or RAM. For saltwater rods, the leash attachment should be 10" or more from the butt so the rod will fit in a flush mount rod holder. There are some custom rods posted in the "Gearing Up" section. Check it out. Good luck and watch out for the kayak fishing addiction. 

Scott

Thanks Scott.  Alot of great input.  I too am looking forward to the MHX blanks, I am trying to talk them into making a 7'6 model, as they do not have one yet.  And as far as cost, the whole point of my rod building business is to make performance rods for less.  I know what components cost (as do you) so I really think that $150 bucks for IM6 or even IM7 or Composite rods is REDICULOUS.  I also build to last, even if it means adding half an ounce.  I have noticed, that in Kayak fishing, the rods are quite heavy (comparitively speaking).  I have a small niche where I happen to be though.  We have a growing smallmouth population, and a renown river-run striper population.  3 rivers converge in Columbia, SC (where I live), and on these three rivers you can go out and catch (in one day); Striper, Largemouth, Smallmouth, Rainbows, and Browns.  That is just crazy!  So, the task at hand is quite interesting.  Thanks again for your input.  It may be a few months, but I will post some pics upon completion of the proto-type.

i use a downrigger on my kayak and would like something that is short and has quick bend so it is manageble.  also just reiterating the importance of strength. have never broke so many rods in my life since i started using the yak.

my 2 cents

mike

i use a downrigger on my kayak and would like something that is short and has quick bend so it is manageble.  also just reiterating the importance of strength. have never broke so many rods in my life since i started using the yak.

my 2 cents

mike

Thats actually a cool idea. Trolling for trout.....Since it's a single use rod the cost would have to be very reasonable

I really like Kistler style of freshwater rods.






Things I like about Kistler rods and things I would want incorporated into a "custom" kayak freshwater rod:

• dropshot style hook holder!!!If you could put a Fuji Folding hook keeper on it also, it would be the bomb! There is no reason for only one hook keeper.
• I really like split handle rods with no foregrip. It really lightens the butt section and moves the balance point toward the tip.
• Fuji SIC guides. I would pay up for those. Haven't taken a liking to the Recoil guides yet. Jury is still out on those. Maybe for a spinning rod.
• Fuji blank exposed reel seat
• I like the look of burled cork handles, but I want rubber butt cap like Kistler LTA
• I like how Loomis Rods puts a decal of the kind of rod it is above the label. A kayak with a bass/trout/panfish would look cool
• a leash attachment ring in between the split handles opposite to the reel so it would hang from the bottom out of the way
• I like bright colorful rod wraps or at least trim bands. Ice Blue Metallic trim bands on black wraps with graphite black rod looks cool.
• I want the rod butt section long enough so that the reel doe NOT rub on the kayak when in the rod holders. The reel handle needs to clear also.
• Crankbait rod style action for a trolling rod.

thats a good idea, there should be a ring on the rod specificly for a leash to attach to the pole