Gear Ratios vs Spool Size, and Pimping a Del Mar 285

I came across this while trying to find out some ratio information on an old Penn reel.  I know other posts have said things about reels as an old Penn is just that.  I won't argue that. 

http://www.pierfishing.com/tackle_tips/9906.html



The Following Tips are Offered by:

Ron Crandall of Ron's Reel repair
camdoc@pacbell.net

Reel speed vs. Reel ratio vs. Spool Diameter

Did you know that a 5 to 1 ratio can be slower than a 2.5 to 1 ratio? A lot off people insist that they have a small reel with a 5 to 1 ratio, because they want to be able to bring in their fish as fast as possible. The part that they don't consider is the diameter of the spool.

An example would be the very popular Ambassadeur 5500 and 6500 series of reels. The maximum diameter of a spool of line is just short of 1-3/8 inches (1.38), and with a 5.3 ratio the retrieve distance is 23 inches per turn of the handle.

This is a great amount, but what happens when you have 75 yards of line out (very common for a lot of conditions). You now have a spool diameter of about 1-1/8 inches and that's a retrieve distance of 18-3/4 inches per turn of the handle .

Two other popular reels are the Penn 60 with a 2.5 ratio and the new Penn 185 with a 3.5 ratio. Both these reels use the same basic spool with a maximum diameter of 2-3/8 inches. Now this works out to be retrieve distances of 18-5/8 inches and 26-1/8 inches per turn of the handle. With 75 yards of line out the diameter is approximately 2-1/8 inches and that works out to a retrieve distance 16-5/8 and 23-3/8 inches .

As you can now see, if you have been following along, the Penn 60 with a 2.5 ratio has a retrieve distance within 2 inches of the Ambassadeur 5500 or 6500 with a ratio of 5 to 1, when used at a working length of line out of about 75 yards. But the Penn 185 with a 3.5 ratio is half again better with a retrieve distance of 23-3/8 inches per turn.

What's important here is that, when you are looking at reels for your particular uses, know all the variables: retrieve ratio, spool diameter and spool width, and calculate the retrieve distance at a working length of line, to make sure that you are really getting what you want.

To calculate this for each reel, use the following formula:

Diameter (of spool) X Pi X Ratio = Retrieve Distance (per revolution)
(Pi = 3.14 in case you don't remember your high school math)

Therefore, for the Penn 185 mentioned above the formula looks like this:

2-1/8 X 3.14 X 3.5 = 23-3/8,

or converting to decimals which makes the calculations easier,

2.125 x 3.14 x 3.5 = 23.38

The last point to consider is the fullness of the spool. As the amount of line on the spool changes, the drag intensity changes. In a small reel the spool will empty faster than a large one. The drag on the small reel can more than double. This is one of the reasons for setting drags at 25% of the line strength. (See previous article on Setting the Drag) On the larger reel, the diameter doesn't change as much as the line is spooled off, and therefore the drag will not be changed as much.

Since some larger diameter reels can be had with higher ratios, and some smaller reels can be had with a lower ratio, it is important to do the math so you are getting exactly what you want.

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  But the math here makes my ancient Jigger converted to 5:1 is fast how fast I wasn't sure till I did the math if the spool is a 2 3/8 (2.375) at 2.375x3.14x5 = 37.29 inches at 2 1/8 (2.125) it drops to 33.36 ( I estimated the size of a 99 spool so my numbers may be off).  Granted I am using a plastic spool, and Alan has advised me to look for an aluminum Penn 99 spool ( I did a narrow Newell 99 conversion). It is still a heavy reel. Compared to the Del Mar

I am in the process of modifying some Newell Parts I had procured to fitt in a Del Mar 285. Now I know some one is saying to themselves why bother?  AS our new President said to day we are a nation of innovators, and I was bored yesterday, and the Dremel was at full charge ( a dangerous combination, and Del Mar 285's are cheap so if I screwed it up I wasn't going to be out much.).  I also chose the Del Mar because it is light, only around 14-15 ounces empty, it also has a relatively narrow spool. I think it has potential if I can find a set of 3:1 or 3.33:1's. 

My motto on this is worse come to worse I only screwed up a cheap reel as opposed to something far more expensive, and the mechanic in me wants to keep tinkering with something. 

  Pretty much same principal used on winches for vehicles. There rated for maximum line pull on last wrap of line on the winch spool, not the top layer!  Although, honestly I never really gave much thought.  I crank the handle, line winds in.

I agree but after hooking up the Jigmaster, I thought to myself...how much faster is it?

So it got me to thinking and looking.

Winches, I had to attend a course on winches and vehicle recovery a few years back.  They had us get tanks and trucks stuck, flipped over and get them right side up and and unstuck.

One rule that has stuck with me that many people under estimate is the amount of suction force mud has.

Below the center of a wheel (trucks) 1 : 1 weight ratio so if you have a 5000 pound truck youu need a 5000 pound winch

At or above the center of the wheel center 2:1 force or 10,000 pound winch or a winch with a snatch block

above the tire 3:1 or a 15,000 pound winch or a couple of snatch blocks.

Other factors come into play, can you go back the way you went in, (it makes it easier)?

great post.

another reason to use braid when you can, it keeps the diameter of the spool bigger for longer.

John

I was going to add but john beat me to it.
You also have to concider line diameter when trying to figure true gear ratio and amount of retrieve as smaller diameter line won't change ratio as fast as larger diameter line.
Thanks for the post,
Eric

I noticed this with a Okuma Convector reel I picked up with a 6.2:1 gear ratio. I figured the fish might explode from the split-second decompression but it really wasn't that much faster than some 4:1 reels I've had.

There is one more variable and that is handle length.

The longer the handle, the more torque you can generate, but the longer it takes you to make a full turn.

A newell 200 series has the same gears as a 300 series, but the spool AND handle on the 200 series is smaller.

Not sure if I can turn the smaller handle faster on the 200 series to account for the larger spool on the 300 series such that they are both more or less equal in terms of speed of bringing a hook in.

John

Very true John, now the problem starts will the aftermarket handle you decide to put to generate the torque actually wear out the reel faster? As you can only apply so much torque to any reel.  That smaller handle comes into the engineers mind, small reel faster retrieve can I get away with a set of brass gears or do I need a higher end stainless set of gears?  When you look at some Alan Tani's displays you can see some times the mindset was to make it cheaper.  I recently bpught an aluminum pulley for a bike I am building and I know it won't be a torque monster engine so I can get away with it over a stock heavier one.  Were I going to be a burn out king I would go stock as it should hold out longer.