Rockfish and Lingcod techniques

I'm interested in effective techniques for rockfish and lingcod, and any thoughts on below.

1. When I'm fishing for rockfish and lingcod, I've primarily been using the same "trap rig" I use for halibut (i.e. j-hook to go through nose of fish and treble towards the tail). This keeps a nice presentation of the fish. I use a shorter leader for the trap rig in the hopes of reducing snagging. But I still get snagged a good amount. The treble hook in particular gets caught on stuff, especially any kelp (but lots of other stuff). I'm thinking about using a more standard "high / low" rockfish set up that just has two bigger J hooks on it. And then using cut bait and tying it with magic thread to reduce snags. I don't think this presentation looks as nice, but if it is effective for rockfish, then that's all that counts. And I'm thinking I'll get less snags with this set up. What do you guys think / use?
2. I find cut bait and using magic thread somewhat annoying. You get stinky. it takes time to wrap the magic thread correctly. So I'm wondering if people find non cut bait techniques just as effective, like using heavy jig heads with swim baits, or high / lo rigs with realistic squid swimbaits, etc.
3. For rockfish, how far offshore do you tend to go, and what is the typical depth you fish? So far, I've primarily fished pretty close to shore. I've fished next to big rocks that protrude out of the water, but that creates a lot of wave action that can make it difficult. Also, when there is a lot of wave action, I've felt like the fish weren't biting. I've found some rocks / structure on the bottom where I caught several rockfish and lingod, and that was nice to not have to deal with the waves and current next to protruding rocks. It's been in 20 to 30 FOW. Do you guys tend to go further offshore and hunt out rocks / structure?
4. If you want to target lingcod specifically, do you do anything differently? Do you target different areas for ling vs rockfish?  I've heard that using bigger bait is better for Lingcod and others have used the same trap rig set up described in 1 above, which makes sense. But then I need to work on not getting snagged as much (like staying away from kelp fields, staying away from protruding rocks that have a lot of waves / current, and it's harder to control depth, etc.).

Thanks for any inisght!
Stewart

Do you have sonar?  If not, then get it.  A basic unit is only around $100, and it's about $30 for a battery and another $30 for a charger.  Fishfinders are easier to install than you might think.  The information provided by sonar is a gigantic advantage in this sport, and having depth is also a crucial safety factor when fog, current, wind and lack of mapping have you wondering about your exact location.

Trap rig with the two J hooks is the way.  I tie my own with 1/0 hooks for salmon, and I'm less picky about hook size for other targets.

I like to fish shallow and avoid barotrauma in my catches, but it depends where you're fishing - some places it feels like you have to get a bit deeper to have better odds of catching. 

Fishing by rocks that are visible is a way to find some rockfish, but it's also the case that everybody and their uncle who's fished there without sonar has gone right up to every rock that shows.  Finding reefs that don't have landmarks above the surface, pointing the way to hard substrate, are generally better places to fish.

Jigs, irons, shrimp flies, leadheads...etc. are the typical go-to hardware for dedicated rockfish and lingcod anglers, but they don't catch as many salmon, halibut or threshers.  Some days the 'conventional' gear does better than the trap with bait - especially for more variety in the rockfish, but most days the bait and trap will outfish most of the other stuff, for overall variety.  It's all about the potential to catch something better.

If you have sonar, make it a point to stop getting snagged so much!     ALL snag time = lost fishing time.

Good luck.   

Avoid the kelp; it’s not worth it. Target rocky reefs instead.

Reel those trap rigs up 4 or 5 cranks from bottom if you’re snagging. Bait them with live kingfish, mackerel, small rockfish, smelts, or the biggest whole squid for lings and good rockfish. (Note: the link below is from my anti-Sabiki phase but I’m in recovery)

If you’re not snagging from time to time, you’re not fishing for rockfish and lings. Expect to lose rigs or replace them after a snag (wrecks your hook points). Bring lots of extras and having two rods rigged and ready helps make the most of your fishing time so you can fish one while fixing up the other. When there’s too much time between bites, the rocky bottom will try to seduce you into fishing too close. Resist the urge to play with the bottom too much.

Skip the magic thread. Squid strips or some swimbaits on a hi-low rig are less hassle and generally get rockfish bites. Can only speak for Central ground fish areas, but you can usually find some decent size, cooperative brown rockfish just seaward of the nearshore kelp beds or any close-to-shore reef. No need to go deep for ground fish, though you’ll probably get more variety in deeper spots.
https://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=102412.0

I'm interested in effective techniques for rockfish and lingcod, and any thoughts on below.

1. When I'm fishing for rockfish and lingcod, I've primarily been using the same "trap rig" I use for halibut (i.e. j-hook to go through nose of fish and treble towards the tail). This keeps a nice presentation of the fish. I use a shorter leader for the trap rig in the hopes of reducing snagging. But I still get snagged a good amount. The treble hook in particular gets caught on stuff, especially any kelp (but lots of other stuff). I'm thinking about using a more standard "high / low" rockfish set up that just has two bigger J hooks on it. And then using cut bait and tying it with magic thread to reduce snags. I don't think this presentation looks as nice, but if it is effective for rockfish, then that's all that counts. And I'm thinking I'll get less snags with this set up. What do you guys think / use?
2. I find cut bait and using magic thread somewhat annoying. You get stinky. it takes time to wrap the magic thread correctly. So I'm wondering if people find non cut bait techniques just as effective, like using heavy jig heads with swim baits, or high / lo rigs with realistic squid swimbaits, etc.
3. For rockfish, how far offshore do you tend to go, and what is the typical depth you fish? So far, I've primarily fished pretty close to shore. I've fished next to big rocks that protrude out of the water, but that creates a lot of wave action that can make it difficult. Also, when there is a lot of wave action, I've felt like the fish weren't biting. I've found some rocks / structure on the bottom where I caught several rockfish and lingod, and that was nice to not have to deal with the waves and current next to protruding rocks. It's been in 20 to 30 FOW. Do you guys tend to go further offshore and hunt out rocks / structure?
4. If you want to target lingcod specifically, do you do anything differently? Do you target different areas for ling vs rockfish?  I've heard that using bigger bait is better for Lingcod and others have used the same trap rig set up described in 1 above, which makes sense. But then I need to work on not getting snagged as much (like staying away from kelp fields, staying away from protruding rocks that have a lot of waves / current, and it's harder to control depth, etc.).

Thanks for any inisght!
Stewart

1. When I'm fishing for rockfish and lingcod, I've primarily been using the same "trap rig" I use for halibut (i.e. j-hook to go through nose of fish and treble towards the tail). This keeps a nice presentation of the fish. I use a shorter leader for the trap rig in the hopes of reducing snagging. But I still get snagged a good amount. The treble hook in particular gets caught on stuff, especially any kelp (but lots of other stuff). I'm thinking about using a more standard "high / low" rockfish set up that just has two bigger J hooks on it. And then using cut bait and tying it with magic thread to reduce snags. I don't think this presentation looks as nice, but if it is effective for rockfish, then that's all that counts. And I'm thinking I'll get less snags with this set up. What do you guys think / use?

I'll second Eric's advice, ditch the treble, J-hooks or octopus hooks will get the job done just fine with less snagging. There are many youtube videos showing you how to tie up leaders for trolling bait like Herring, anchovy, etc...I dont use magic thread, as you noted its sort of a pain and I don't find it necessary.

2. I find cut bait and using magic thread somewhat annoying. You get stinky. it takes time to wrap the magic thread correctly. So I'm wondering if people find non cut bait techniques just as effective, like using heavy jig heads with swim baits, or high / lo rigs with realistic squid swimbaits, etc.

Bait is no always going to be the top offering. Artificials definitely have a place in your rock cod repertoire, and at times they will out perform bait. Its a whole heckuva lot easier as well. I like swimbaits for Lings when fishing artificial, just size down for rockcod. I also like having a few metal jigs on hand. Tipping the hooks with bait is optional, but can improve the odds of getting bit. I dont bother with magic thread, just replace any lost bait on the next drop.

3. For rockfish, how far offshore do you tend to go, and what is the typical depth you fish? So far, I've primarily fished pretty close to shore. I've fished next to big rocks that protrude out of the water, but that creates a lot of wave action that can make it difficult. Also, when there is a lot of wave action, I've felt like the fish weren't biting. I've found some rocks / structure on the bottom where I caught several rockfish and lingod, and that was nice to not have to deal with the waves and current next to protruding rocks. It's been in 20 to 30 FOW. Do you guys tend to go further offshore and hunt out rocks / structure?

Inshore/shallow rock/lingcod fishing is a lot of fun, certainly more fun than 200 + feet. Once you get to a certain depth, its challenging to keep a vertical presentation, stay on the structure you are targeting, and feel the bites/fight of the fish. I look for pinnacles or isolated rock piles. The benefit of a FF with GPS is that you can mark those spots and return  to the most productive reefs. Depth can influence the type of fish you are going to hook up with, for example...shallow reefs are the places I've always had the most luck with cabezon. Conversely, really deep is more likely to yield bocaccio, chile peppers, widows, etc...

4. If you want to target lingcod specifically, do you do anything differently? Do you target different areas for ling vs rockfish?  I've heard that using bigger bait is better for Lingcod and others have used the same trap rig set up described in 1 above, which makes sense. But then I need to work on not getting snagged as much (like staying away from kelp fields, staying away from protruding rocks that have a lot of waves / current, and it's harder to control depth, etc.)

Lingcod will hit most of the same stuff rock cod will be attracted to. When targeting larger grade lings, live bait (small rockcod, large baitfish like jack smelt, whole squid, octopus if a ling pukes one up on you, croakers) are more likely to get you keeper size to trophy. A treble is not necessary, but you would size your hooks up to suit the size of bait used appropriately. Large swimbaits have produced plenty of lings over 30'' for me and many others. Snagging bottom is part of the experience when fishing for lings, especially in a moderate to fast drift, large swell, or exceptionally varied bottom composition. technique/practice can help to reduce the frequency/amount of lost gear, as can the type of weights being used and the general composition of your set-up. Shorter leaders and longer drops to the weight are good ways to adjust and reduce the snag risk. I like torpedo shaped weights as I find them easier to get unsnagged. Check your leader often for abrasion. 

You can just use two shrimp fly rigs with squid or cut bait, or use one shrimp fly and one swimbait.  You can also swap out to a single circle hook for using bait instead of a trap rig. But my favorite now is to troll a 3 way with a 5/0 hook and a gulp 6" curly tail grub.  It just always has action, like this past weekend. For Halibut I do prefer the trap rig for live and dead bait, as they are king of picky biters a lot of the time.  But with lingcod they tend to swallow the whole thing, so I avoid using a trop rig if going specifically for lings.  If you are rockfishing a real rocky area then I like to bring out the jigs and bars, and above them use a shrimp fly.  But i've seen plenty of lings (big ones too) on plain old shrimp flies.

Learned a lot on this thread. Thanks!

https://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=93028.0

https://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=92661.0

There is a ton of info on this site and everyone has their own opinion.

A guide might be very helpful in your quest for knowledge. A great one was the first to reply to your question, and he fishes out of a great area!

For me, I generally don’t use bait. I’m with Al and mostly use gulp grubs. A lot of time I will have a 3-4 inch gulp grub above on a 6/0 siwash(open eye crimped onto a 3 way t swivle) with a 6 inch gulp below on a jighead anywhere from 2-8 oz. If I need heavier I’ll switch to a jigging iron.

If targeting lings specifically I will ditch the top teaser to avoid rockfish and just go big swimbait, or even better big live bait. Bigger baits keep the small rockfish away and attract lingcod.

wow - such great perspectives! Thanks all!

Hi-Low Rig with Circle Octopus Hooks and Fresh Shrimp (NOT FROZEN) 30-60 ft waters. Works from shore and above rocky reefs in a kayak. For Lingcod, I think they might prefer herring.

My secret to catching rockfish and lingcod is to troll for halibut. It works every time!

My secret to catching rockfish and lingcod is to troll for halibut. It works every time!

Not to give up too many 'trade secrets', but...  this.

My secret to catching rockfish and lingcod is to troll for halibut. It works every time!

hahahaha - nice!