Mendo Bendo Memorial Day 5/29/06

indeed, real nice! is that your perching rod too?
How do you feel about trolling with a spinning setup, it's not quite as precise for letting out line, etc?
especially with trolling rigs that are more complicated and you can't just cast them back behind you.
lamiglas has a new 7'9" koke UL casting rod.  kind of interesting.
You could make a casting rod out of the same blank?
I have had a lot of fun with a cheap 7' 2-8lb pflueger/shakespeare casting rod that I have been using
for freshwater trolling.

This kind of "flylining" type trolling is no problem with a light spinning outfit.  Trolling with plugs (i.e. rat'l traps or x-raps) is also pretty forgiving with a spinning setup.  When it comes to trolling for salmon, halibut drifting, etc., then it's definitely time for a baitcaster / conventional reel.  Yes, this was built to be my perching rod... casts light lures really nicely.

I have had a lot of fun with a cheap 7' 2-8lb pflueger/shakespeare casting rod that I have been using
for freshwater trolling.

I have one of those, they are a blast to catch trout with.

I wish it was longer, like 8.5 feet. So I can reach around the bow of my 15' boat.
maybe this is one case where a flyrod converted to an ultralight trolling rod
makes sense. Or one of those noodle rods. I don't think they make noodle rods in casting versions tho.

I don't think they make noodle rods in casting versions tho.

Depends on who "they" are...   

true! must be nice to be able to make whatever you want!

bit by bit I am learning what to ask for.

since you have that little daiwa linecounter, maybe you can think of a reason you
need to try it with 200 feet of 4lb test topshot and put it on a casting noodle rod? 

with your FF and line counter theoretically you should be able to put lure or bait right on top of the fish that way?

'precision' trolling.

then you can pull in a big striper on a that! I guess as long as there is no cover for them to get fouled
on and the drag doesn't stick you should be able to land 'em?

maybe you can land a sturgeon on it too. I remember you were considering sturgeon on ultralight line.

since we have hijacked this topic (at least you were the author):

erik, what is your opinion on roller guides?

Do they have a place for the kind of salmon trolling we do?

My 8.5' rod with stainless guides seems to have a groove in a guide already. the middle guide, which would
be the one at the apex of the bend when I'm salmon trolling. I was using 20lb spectra but I only went out
4 times I think.

I ran across a cheap 8.5 fiberglass rod (10-25lb) with roller guides and I could not pass it up, but haven't tried it yet.
Since the rod tip is often underwater when trooching, I took every guide apart and greased it, but I think
they will still corrode in short order.

It seems like trolling a 2lb ball with spectra is brutal on guides? shouldn't the steel guides be better than the
ceramic?

J

The hardness of even the lowest grade of ceramic ring is substantially harder than that of a stainless steel ring.  Virtually any of the modern ceramic ring guides will hold up to today's braided lines.  It is true that when the spectra type lines originally came out, there were some guide grooving issues, but those problems have been resolved with the design of the modern spectra lines.  The only thing that can possibly cause grooving on the ceramic guides is if you are fishing in really dirty water all the time and your line becomes really impregnated with dirt / grit.  Even so, this is not a very common scenario and would likely still take quite some time to develop.  Most old surf rods I have seen with the stainless steel guides on them have grooves... and that is just from monofilament.

The higher grades of ceramic (SiC and equivalent) have extremely high hardness ratings and have the advantage of being able to be polished to an extremely smooth finish... much smoother than the lower grade ceramics (aluminium oxide or hardloy, etc.).  In fact, you can run a file over an SiC ring and will have a very difficult time making a groove in it.  However, they are more fragile than metal ring guides and can crack if banged around too much... so there is no free lunch.

Here is the Vicker's Hardness rating for various guides / ceramic inserts.

Stainless Steel (SS): 200
Chrome:  800-1000 (HardChrome):
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400  (Hardloy)
Alconite: 1700 (Fuji Alconite Concept Guides)
NANOLITE: 1800 (American Tackle TITAN guides)
Zirconia: 1800-2000 (Various Brands)
Silicon Carbide (SiC): 2200- 2400 (Fuji and other brands)
Gold Cermet:  something higher than that... who knows.  Too expensive though.


As for roller guides, they are actually the best choice for limiting wear and tear on your line, but they are a maintenance issue sometimes and they are obviously heavier than standard guides... so again... there is no free lunch.  Most of the standard roller guides are made of brass, so they won't rust, but they do eventually break after many years of being flexed.  There are some that are made of stainless steel and even some made of titanium now. Others, such as the Aftco Light Weight Roller Guides have plastic bodies, brass hardware, and stainless rollers.  These would be the best bet for an ultralight noodle rod and would definitely be the best option for taking it easy on very light line.

Also, rollers should not be "greased" but just lightly oiled occasionally. You don't want to goop them up to the point that debris will get caught in the hardware.

well that is pretty illuminating, thanks for the expert info erik. I keep hearing about the durability of the stainless
steel guides, I guess they refer to impact durability, not line wear durability. apparently they are lighter at least,
which should translate to more sensitivity.

my other issue with my roller guides is that if the rod flips over the top of the guide looks like it will cut the line.
since my rod holder is just a tube, that's kind of an issue and I'm not sure how to solve it.

my other issue with my roller guides is that if the rod flips over the top of the guide looks like it will cut the line.
since my rod holder is just a tube, that's kind of an issue and I'm not sure how to solve it.

Your choice of rod holder might solve that problem.  I use the Scotty Rodmaster II.  It has a notch in it to accomodate the shaft of a spinning reel and also fits nicely with the trigger on a trigger reel seat.  Keeps the rod from flipping over pretty well.

http://www.scotty.com/marine/products/product/rodholders/Rodmaster%20II.html

yep, that would help. my "rod holder" is just a plastic tube zip tied into a cut up cooler I have strapped into
my tank well.  It's experimental while I'm testing the trolling thing. I need to convert it to
some kind of more permanent solution eventually. I have looked at a few rod holders, that one looks
like a good one. I was considering the 'quick-draw' from cabelas since it would make it easier to
load and unload while it's pointing back behind me.

actually the rod with the roller guides has foam grips and they dont slip around in the holder like the cork grips
so maybe it will be okay, especially once the weight is on and causing a lot of friction in the holder.
won't know till I try it.

J

Eric that is a nice looking rod, I reallly like the alternating cork bands.
                                 Morgan
                             

Eriks stuff is even more beautiful in real life.  The ling rod he made for me makes me smile every time I pick it up...its awesome.

custom one of a kind stuff is the best!

J