NorCal Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing Zone => Safety First => Topic started by: Sprmario on October 11, 2022, 07:15:18 PM
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Hey all,
For context, I am located in Eureka and plan to fish in Humboldt bay, in some of the lagoons, and maybe Trinidad to start.
I realize that the best case is a drysuit in most situations (not comfort but safety at least) but I have been looking into some more affordable options while I start my kayak fishing journey. I've had some locals suggest a farmer john wetsuit and a jacket over the top but I also have some waders (a breathable and a neoprene) that would be the easiest option for me since I already own them.
I also recently saw this video going over the prospect of waders and jacket for a kayak that makes me feel like it may be feasible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7i4zajijb8
Am I crazy given the water and air temps in this area or is a farmer john or wader/jacket combo a feasible option?
Thanks
Edit: I saw a local listing for a diving drysuit for sale. Are these gonna be a nightmare to kayak with because of the difference in fit? https://www.ndiver.com/divemaster-sport-drysuit
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Aloha,
Waders are not super safe if you fall in.
I started with an old surf wetsuit that kept me warm enough with a rain jacket on top through many a learning immersion. A farmer John bottom would be better than a pair of waders, but without the tip you risk flooding the suit which gets really cold really fast ( learned that one when I forgot my wetsuit top but still went diving anyways).
Dry suit is sage but unless you find a cheap one is an expensive not crucial piece of equipment when used wetsuits and rain shells combined with a pfd will keep you safe.
2 cents from a guy on the throne before bedtime.
Aloha,
Isao
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Most of us started with old wetsuits and moved into NRS Men's 3.0 Farmer John Wetsuit with a 3.0 jacket.
I would strongly discourage wearing a wader in NorCal ocean.
Be safe.
Paul
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At work I snorkel in 48-56F water comfortably all day. I use the same wetsuit gear when I kayak in the ocean because I know I can swim in it for a long time in cold water. Expect the worst, survive to fish another day. I wear a 7 mm aqualung farmer John, a hyper flex 1.5 mm top it’s a pull over it’s just like a sweatshirt without a hood, NRS socks NRS boots, and a NRS paddle life jacket. If you wanted to be really safe you would have a hood and gloves attached to the back of your life jacket somehow that didn’t get in your way. And a compass and whistle. Find it used, barter, go on the cheap, but test it first.
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I went directly to Kokatat dry suit (Hydrus 3 supernova angler) and never looked back. It has lifetime warranty and replaced my suit (zipper problem) hassle free. I saw another one at REI this year for half of the price ($385) and haggled the price down to $300 for my dad.
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If just starting, wetsuit gear of sorts would be a safe and easier investment. Craigslist or other marketplaces often have free or really non expensive stuff... heck, you could even take a full suit and just cut out the arms and neck to make a farmer john.. or bottoms and vest till you decide what suits
Kokatat semi-dry are nice... no latex neck pulling your hairs out every time you suit up
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Waders should be against the law
Most of the people here like drysuits which are probably great as long as you don’t have to swim any distance or in rough conditions
For a short spell I worked in a drysuit and switched back to my wetsuit for a few reasons, the most relevant here would be about swimming. Drysuits are nice as long as you’re dry but a lot more awkward to swim in
On any given weekend I swim anywhere from 2-6 hours a day doing surf video, wetsuit especially in rough conditions is the only way to go
Odds that you’ll end up swimming might seem slim but it happens
As always just an opinion
Heard a surfer was attacked up your way
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Lots of suggestions for old surf gear already, but I bought a 4mil farmer John wetsuit on Amazon for like $50. I also got some 3mil booties that I wear under sandals, $15 on Amazon. If your feet get cold you might want thicker, but 3 mil works for me for Bay Area kayaking. I usually don't wear them, but bring them with me everytime. Layer a fleece top and a windbreaker and you are good to go!
I prefer a wetsuit over a drysuit - the rubber seals and then sitting in a sealed suit in the sun make it a no go for me on the kayak. I haven't worn a semi dry suit yet, but the price just doesn't work for me - if you read some of my past posts you will see a diy/budget trend in my gear.
I'd probably layer water-wicking clothing if I was really desperate to get out on cold water without a wet suit. Think snow gear - made to keep you warm in cold and wet places. It won't protect you fully from immersion, but would buy you some time in the worst case scenario.
I would definitely avoid waders in deep water.
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Oh, almost forgot - with a wetsuit you splash yourself to cool down. They are meant to let some water permeate, so it has the effect you want without degrading your protection. In a dry suit, the water will run off, and not cool you very much.
But, bonus to most dry suits, pockets! Stash a dive knife, pencil flare, or whatever else you think might be beneficial if something happens in your pocket. Or just carry fishing gear, haha.
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Speedy if you are happy with the booties you got I’d be interested to know what they are
For swimming with fins I go as minimal as I can find which right now is O’Neill but could use something even thinner and less sole
Kicking fins for hours booties get bunched up and kill your feet
The best I had were custom straight neoprene from Stan’s dive shop in SJ back in the day Should probably try making my own
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Speedy if you are happy with the booties you got I’d be interested to know what they are
For swimming with fins I go as minimal as I can find which right now is O’Neill but could use something even thinner and less sole
Kicking fins for hours booties get bunched up and kill your feet
The best I had were custom straight neoprene from Stan’s dive shop in SJ back in the day Should probably try making my own
https://a.co/d/72BZrXz
They are $16.99 now - inflation, haha. They work well for what I use them for, but I don't really walk around in them. If I wear them on pavement, they are under sandals. I've had them for almost two years, and no complaints. These don't have a sole, per se, just some little rubber nubs, which don't provide any traction whatsoever; I think those are just to keep the bottoms from getting worn out when walking in them. If you are around the Bay at all, I'd be happy to let you check them out in person.
I've also thought about making my own stuff. Neoprene is super easy to work with, and doesn't seem to be too expensive. I've thought about making a set of 3 mil pants and a 3/4 zip 5 mil vest. Just gotta spend the time to do it - and time is a very finite resource for me these days.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I think ill look into the wetsuit options, may be a good time to get the offseason sales.
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Sprmario, what size wetsuit are you looking for?
I will be downsizing and will have a few 7 mil farmer johns and tops available, both lined (SCUBA) and skin in (Freedive)
I'm in Ft Bragg.
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Sprmario, what size wetsuit are you looking for?
I will be downsizing and will have a few 7 mil farmer johns and tops available, both lined (SCUBA) and skin in (Freedive)
I'm in Ft Bragg.
I am a large last time I looked, but xl in some.
PM me with details and ill take a look.
Thanks
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I will PM you in a week or so, I'm away until mid next week. Most of my wetsuits are size L.
Cheers!
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Drysuits have plenty of drawbacks, as bluekayak mentioned. They don't stay "dry" forever - a small hole or worn gasket will let water in, and then you're unprotected. Also, and this is a big deal that not enough people focus on, even a totally pristine, waterproof drysuit lacks the insulation to keep you warm. Without proper underlayering, which can be expensive itself, you will be subject to hypothermia for sure. I've seen it happen.
I've had two drysuits that I wore over the years, but I wore a farmerjohn wetsuit underneath - either 3 mil or 6 mil. Once the drysuits got holes in them from handling so many fish and so much tackle, it was apparent that they weren't going to keep water out, and that was a good realization because it made me focus on actually having immersion wear that would keep me alive if I ended up in the water for an extended period of time. We all need to figure we'll eventually be in the water for an extended period of time. The ocean was 48 degrees along the coast here in the late spring, and even mid 50's in the summer can take you out quickly.
A guy at Shelter Cove made a big mistake and paddled right to the point to fish on one foggy day this past summer. The swells got him, because no one fishes at the point, and he ended up on top of one of the exposed rocks. He had hypothermia so bad that he passed out and almost died - is what we were hearing on the VHF. He was in a drysuit, and I'll bet that even if it didn't have any holes in it before he ended up on that rock, it did after his ordeal.
As for lifetime warranties, buyer beware. I returned both of my drysuits to Kokatat to see if they could be worked on - one had the "delamination" that we often hear about, where layers come apart and water gets in between, but Kokatat told me quite bluntly that both suits were worn out and that I had no recourse. So be it - I accepted it. Told them I need to come get them, and they said it would be up to a week before I could pick them up. WTF? I needed to use them. I wasn't impressed.
A few years later I did a photo shoot with Kokatat where they put me in some paddling pants (my wetsuit underneath), a paddling jacket and a "Leviathan" PFD. I got to keep that gear - $500 worth - and I still use it. Blood, fish spines and hooks have worn it all very well - nothing lasts forever, especially with all the blood exposure.
I wear swim trunks and a rashguard top, a 1 mil full body liner that I got at Costco years ago, thick synthetic socks, a 3 mil or 6 mil FJ depending on the day, the paddling pants, paddling jacket and PFD - plus hat, buff and big boots like Boggs (Kamik is my current boot choice). Some days I get a bit warm, but I'm working out there and can tolerate a bit of discomfort or less than optimal warmth.
The best way to find out what will work for you is to get in the water for an extended period of time with the gear that you think will work for you - in a controlled situation, of course.
Best of luck~
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This topic surfaces fairly often and the consensus from NCKA has generally remained the same that good immersion gear is very necessary in this sport, especially when talking about the ocean. On a lake you can die just as easily especially in the winter months. But people judge the risk to be acceptable and wear what is comfortable instead of what might save them if they actually go in the water. Most of the time this is fine, it's that one time that it isn't that can cost you your life. People make these decisions all the time based on the weather and adjust their risk accordingly, believing they have control over the situation. But being prepared for the worst situation is going to do you a lot more good in the sport of kayak fishing.
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Waders should be against the law
Most of the people here like drysuits which are probably great as long as you don’t have to swim any distance or in rough conditions
For a short spell I worked in a drysuit and switched back to my wetsuit for a few reasons, the most relevant here would be about swimming. Drysuits are nice as long as you’re dry but a lot more awkward to swim in
On any given weekend I swim anywhere from 2-6 hours a day doing surf video, wetsuit especially in rough conditions is the only way to go
Odds that you’ll end up swimming might seem slim but it happens
As always just an opinion
Heard a surfer was attacked up your way
^^^ This ^^^ Why chance it? When you hit the water, your survival rate diminishes. Why do you want to lower that rate? Drysuit is probably the best option, but it is expensive and you have other option. A wetsuit with water resistant jacket is going to do fine for most folks.
If I am the beneficiary of your life insurance and I hate you, I would say go use the wader. But if you insist using the wader, do me a favor. Go dip yourself in a 3 feet of water for 3 minutes, in a surf to add more fun, then you can make your decision after.
Fishing is a bonus, going home should always be the goal.
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As for lifetime warranties, buyer beware. I returned both of my drysuits to Kokatat to see if they could be worked on - one had the "delamination" that we often hear about, where layers come apart and water gets in between, but Kokatat told me quite bluntly that both suits were worn out and that I had no recourse. So be it - I accepted it. Told them I need to come get them, and they said it would be up to a week before I could pick them up. WTF? I needed to use them. I wasn't impressed.
That's surprising to hear, as my experience with Kokatat has been incredibly positive.
I bought a drysuit that had their "switchzip technology", meaning that it zipped around the middle and you could literally separate it into 2 parts. After a year, I sent it in for routine maintenance, and they detected some issue with that (expensive) zipper. So, they replaced the zipper at no charge. The next year, I sent it in again for routine maintenance, and they said it was delaminated. I'd had a mold issue with it, due to the stupid way I stored it over winter, and I figured that was the cause, and that I'd have to pay for a new one. But, to my surprise, they replaced it for free (including some customization to the booties). In fact, since they no longer sold the particular model I had owned, they sent me a new drysuit that sells for $500 more than I'd paid for the original...
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An interesting thread with a lot of good opinions from experienced kayak anglers. A lot of the people who replied favor wet suits. However, if you searched the Northwest Kayak Anglers forum, I think you'd find that almost all the kayak anglers favor drysuits. I'm from Montana, and I definitely favor drysuits. A drysuit lets me kayak in comfort and relative safety even in water temperatures only slightly above freezing and air temperatures below freezing, and in windy, rainy, and/or snowy conditions.
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Big difference in your circumstances there
A lot to be unpacked here like what’s good dry might not be so great wet especially in winter. Seems like there’s a disconnect in thinking
Here if you wear a drysuit with enough underneath to keep you warm in the water, you’ll cook paddling or pedaling a kayak. If you wear what’s comfortable sitting on a kayak it probably won’t do much for you if you’re in cold water any length of time
If I was where you are in snowy conditions I might go drysuit but only if I couldn’t find a warm enough wetsuit
The underwear that came with my DUI commercial drysuit is about an inch thick and when I wore it in winter water which is basically sierra runoff at 3 a.m. sf bay, it was fine. Any other time I was cooking even in the water. I have two sets of drysuit underwear and both were too hot
My wetsuit at the time was hot even in icy cold water. I used it in water with ice drifts like in snowy spots like in your pics and was still too warm
At the moment I’m using a pretty nice wetsuit but it’s nothing like my old custom suits. Any given day im swimming 3-6 hours while my son surfs, spring break we did two days 10-12 hours
My current suit is ok but at about hour three I’m feeling it. This weekend I might try a layer under it with a hoodie If that doesn’t do it I have to upgrade to a warmer suit
Ive been using 4/3 which is barely enough in winter. In winter water temp has gotten below 52 degrees and Im swimming not surfing
A lot comes down to your cold water tolerance
Long way round to saying what’s good sitting on a kayak probably isn’t enough for a cold water swim
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I wore a 3/2 NRS farmer John for years with no top or sometimes a windbreaker and swam too many times to count
Paddling mileage on a kayak you can overheat pretty fast and cold water has a way of motivating you to get back on your yak
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An interesting thread with a lot of good opinions from experienced kayak anglers. A lot of the people who replied favor wet suits. However, if you searched the Northwest Kayak Anglers forum, I think you'd find that almost all the kayak anglers favor drysuits. I'm from Montana, and I definitely favor drysuits. A drysuit lets me kayak in comfort and relative safety even in water temperatures only slightly above freezing and air temperatures below freezing, and in windy, rainy, and/or snowy conditions.
Nice pics. Thanks for posting
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As for lifetime warranties, buyer beware. I returned both of my drysuits to Kokatat to see if they could be worked on - one had the "delamination" that we often hear about, where layers come apart and water gets in between, but Kokatat told me quite bluntly that both suits were worn out and that I had no recourse. So be it - I accepted it. Told them I need to come get them, and they said it would be up to a week before I could pick them up. WTF? I needed to use them. I wasn't impressed.
That's surprising to hear, as my experience with Kokatat has been incredibly positive.
I bought a drysuit that had their "switchzip technology", meaning that it zipped around the middle and you could literally separate it into 2 parts. After a year, I sent it in for routine maintenance, and they detected some issue with that (expensive) zipper. So, they replaced the zipper at no charge. The next year, I sent it in again for routine maintenance, and they said it was delaminated. I'd had a mold issue with it, due to the stupid way I stored it over winter, and I figured that was the cause, and that I'd have to pay for a new one. But, to my surprise, they replaced it for free (including some customization to the booties). In fact, since they no longer sold the particular model I had owned, they sent me a new drysuit that sells for $500 more than I'd paid for the original...
Kokatat has treated me very well through the years. One time I sent my old heavily used Tempest pants for leak repair. To my delight I was offered a brand new one at no cost. I worked a deal and paid extra for bibs. When I sent the bibs in for leak repair and I when I got them back it was still leaking, their customer service offered me 50% off goretex sock replacement. Which I said yes to.
Here's report where the rescuee was wearing a drysuit and the proper layers. He was in 55 degree water for over an hour and came out OK.
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=85449.0
Personally I prefer angler drysuits.
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Wet suits. Safety first.
HOWEVER - this season we launched in bad conditions and had to get in up to above the knees. Navigating rocks and trying to time the launch, I was in water long enough. I was wet but not cold. However, as the day progressed, wind made me do super cold (and I had a neoprene jacket over my neoprene shirt). I’m sure I was in some early hypothermia stage when I landed.
I would need a thicker farmer John suit.
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if you have a play it again sports in your area, it may be worth calling them to see if they have any wetsuits (or drysuits) in their inventory. I recently found a brand new NRS farmer John for under $30 at my concord PIAS.
The used wetsuits they had came in varying stages of wear/tear. If you consider buying something that is actually second hand (lots of their stuff is actually new/never used) you will obviously want to give it a thorough inspection to ensure it is in good enough shape to work effectively.
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I haven't been out in a few years, but, did allot of trial and error from 3mil to 7mil to jacket no jacket etc. I settled on a nice 5mil FJ and added a relief zipper, added a super stretchy 2mil long sleeve jacket. A wet wetsuit in the wind can get cold so I have a lightwt pair of gortex splash pants and a run of the mil splash jacket for wind chill. Always wore the gortex pants, normally didn't wear the splash jacket. In the end actually not much cheaper than a drysuit but I like the 100% reliability I get from a wetsuit, and as a diver before a yakker I was used to wearing one all day.
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if you have a play it again sports in your area, it may be worth calling them to see if they have any wetsuits (or drysuits) in their inventory. I recently found a brand new NRS farmer John for under $30 at my concord PIAS.
The used wetsuits they had came in varying stages of wear/tear. If you consider buying something that is actually second hand (lots of their stuff is actually new/never used) you will obviously want to give it a thorough inspection to ensure it is in good enough shape to work effectively.
Nice snag, I don't have one nearby but I will be stalking facebook and looking for deals in the local stores when the season ends.
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I live up here in Oregon and I own both a Kokatat Hydrus 3L Angler's dry suit and a wetsuit. I rarely use the dry suit because, for all their good points, they're still a one-person portable sauna - and a dry suit you've unzipped to prevent heatstroke isn't protecting anything if you end up in the water.
I found splashing water on the drysuit has a minimal cooling effect because of the base layers you must wear underneath it. That's where the warmth originates, and if the base layers don't continue to keep you warm with water splashed on the outer dry suit, you aren't going to survive in the ocean for long.
Also, consider that even the highest quality multi-layer Gore-Tex material will leak if there's sufficient pressure differential - like getting caught in a sudden squall can create. They aren't totally waterproof, they're only waterproof to a point, after which they're a micro colander. I have personal experience with that phenomenon.
Yes, a lot of us on NWKA espouse using a dry suit, but here on NCKA, members went batshit crazy over Eddyline kayaks and a lot of others followed (and for a while, it was Santa Cruz kayaks). A trend doesn't make it the best idea.
To correct one statement, above, neoprene is a closed cell foam and water cannot permeate the material to any significant depth. But also note is that a wetted wetsuit in moving air acts like an evaporative cooler, so water-repellant outer layers are a Really Good Idea on cool, windy days.
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I live up here in Oregon and I own both a Kokatat Hydrus 3L Angler's dry suit and a wetsuit. I rarely use the dry suit because, for all their good points, they're still a one-person portable sauna - and a dry suit you've unzipped to prevent heatstroke isn't protecting anything if you end up in the water.
I found splashing water on the drysuit has a minimal cooling effect because of the base layers you must wear underneath it. That's where the warmth originates, and if the base layers don't continue to keep you warm with water splashed on the outer dry suit, you aren't going to survive in the ocean for long.
Also, consider that even the highest quality multi-layer Gore-Tex material will leak if there's sufficient pressure differential - like getting caught in a sudden squall can create. They aren't totally waterproof, they're only waterproof to a point, after which they're a micro colander. I have personal experience with that phenomenon.
Yes, a lot of us on NWKA espouse using a dry suit, but here on NCKA, members went batshit crazy over Eddyline kayaks and a lot of others followed (and for a while, it was Santa Cruz kayaks). A trend doesn't make it the best idea.
To correct one statement, above, neoprene is a closed cell foam and water cannot permeate the material to any significant depth. But also note is that a wetted wetsuit in moving air acts like an evaporative cooler, so water-repellant outer layers are a Really Good Idea on cool, windy days.
Dry suits really do keep you dry. I have spent many 4-6 hour days snorkeling and speargunning in a dry suit, and my clothing stays dry underneath it. A dry suit makes outstanding rain gear; I have spent many days whitewater kayaking and kayak fishing in a steady rain and wind, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. And I have spent many days whitewater kayaking in a dry suit, getting hit by heavy breaking waves and blasting through holes, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. On multi-day whitewater kayak trips, I wear the same clothing on and off the river, knowing that I can rely on my dry suit to keep the clothing dry while running whitewater during the day. A dry suit makes it unnecessary for me to carry a complete set of on-shore clothing inside my kayak, and makes it unnecessary for me to dry out my on-river clothing at night, which in cool and rainy weather can be difficult to do.
I know how much clothing I have to wear under a dry suit to stay comfortable for hours in the water at various water temperatures, such as in the lower 50s. But to stay comfortable and relatively safe in a dry suit when kayak fishing, you need to compromise. Because I hope to stay in my kayak and not end up in the water, I usually wear enough clothing under my dry suit to stay comfortable while fishing after checking weather predictions for the anticipated air temperature, wind, and precipitation, which is usually not enough clothing for me to stay comfortable for an extended stay in the water, but is enough clothing to keep me relatively warm for a couple minutes while I right my kayak and climb back onto it. If I expect the air temperature to be cool in the morning and warmer in the afternoon, I'll wear an appropriate amount of clothing under my dry suit so I won't overheat in the afternoon, will wear a parka or a pile jacket over my dry suit in the morning to stay warm, and will take off the over-layers as the air temperature increases later in the day. Putting on and taking off a pile hat or balaclava is a good way to adjust your comfort for changes in the air temperature or wind speed during the day; I wear them under my sun hat or waterproof rain hat.
Here's a couple pictures from a four-day 116-mile whitewater kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho, launching on Marsh Creek, where we paddled through snow on the shore, and sometimes falling snow, for the first day and a half. I wore the same clothing on the river under my dry suit, and off the river in camp and while hiking, and my dry suit kept the clothing dry.
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I live up here in Oregon and I own both a Kokatat Hydrus 3L Angler's dry suit and a wetsuit. I rarely use the dry suit because, for all their good points, they're still a one-person portable sauna - and a dry suit you've unzipped to prevent heatstroke isn't protecting anything if you end up in the water.
I found splashing water on the drysuit has a minimal cooling effect because of the base layers you must wear underneath it. That's where the warmth originates, and if the base layers don't continue to keep you warm with water splashed on the outer dry suit, you aren't going to survive in the ocean for long.
Also, consider that even the highest quality multi-layer Gore-Tex material will leak if there's sufficient pressure differential - like getting caught in a sudden squall can create. They aren't totally waterproof, they're only waterproof to a point, after which they're a micro colander. I have personal experience with that phenomenon.
Yes, a lot of us on NWKA espouse using a dry suit, but here on NCKA, members went batshit crazy over Eddyline kayaks and a lot of others followed (and for a while, it was Santa Cruz kayaks). A trend doesn't make it the best idea.
To correct one statement, above, neoprene is a closed cell foam and water cannot permeate the material to any significant depth. But also note is that a wetted wetsuit in moving air acts like an evaporative cooler, so water-repellant outer layers are a Really Good Idea on cool, windy days.
Dry suits really do keep you dry. I have spent many 4-6 hour days snorkeling and speargunning in a dry suit, and my clothing stays dry underneath it. A dry suit makes outstanding rain gear; I have spent many days whitewater kayaking and kayak fishing in a steady rain and wind, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. And I have spent many days whitewater kayaking in a dry suit, getting hit by heavy breaking waves and blasting through holes, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. On multi-day whitewater kayak trips, I wear the same clothing on and off the river, knowing that I can rely on my dry suit to keep the clothing dry while running whitewater during the day. A dry suit makes it unnecessary for me to carry a complete set of on-shore clothing inside my kayak, and makes it unnecessary for me to dry out my on-river clothing at night, which in cool and rainy weather can be difficult to do.
I know how much clothing I have to wear under a dry suit to stay comfortable for hours in the water at various water temperatures, such as in the lower 50s. But to stay comfortable and relatively safe in a dry suit when kayak fishing, you need to compromise. Because I hope to stay in my kayak and not end up in the water, I usually wear enough clothing under my dry suit to stay comfortable while fishing after checking weather predictions for the anticipated air temperature, wind, and precipitation, which is usually not enough clothing for me to stay comfortable for an extended stay in the water, but is enough clothing to keep me relatively warm for a couple minutes while I right my kayak and climb back onto it. If I expect the air temperature to be cool in the morning and warmer in the afternoon, I'll wear an appropriate amount of clothing under my dry suit so I won't overheat in the afternoon, will wear a parka or a pile jacket over my dry suit in the morning to stay warm, and will take off the over-layers as the air temperature increases later in the day. Putting on and taking off a pile hat or balaclava is a good way to adjust your comfort for changes in the air temperature or wind speed during the day; I wear them under my sun hat or waterproof rain hat.
Here's a couple pictures from a four-day 116-mile whitewater kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho, launching on Marsh Creek, where we paddled through snow on the shore, and sometimes falling snow, for the first day and a half. I wore the same clothing on the river under my dry suit, and off the river in camp and while hiking, and my dry suit kept the clothing dry.
Thanks for the info and tips Pete. You are hard core kayak fellow.
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Dry suits really do keep you dry...
Peter, I know you're smart enough to understand the manufacturers' data about permeability across a pressure differential, and all breathable materials, regardless of type or manufacturer, will leak when that pressure differential is reached. Gore-tex has the highest point of reverse permeability but it, too, will allow water to flow backwards through the material when that pressure differential is reached. Even the multi-layer stuff.
You haven't reached that point is the best anyone can claim. I have. More than once. With a 3-layer non-Gore product and with a Gore-Tex Pro product, and neither had been punctured. They will keep you dry to a point, after which they won't. That's all I'm saying.
Well, that, plus they'll bake you if you're in sunshine all day. :smt077
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Dry suits really do keep you dry...
Peter, I know you're smart enough to understand the manufacturers' data about permeability across a pressure differential, and all breathable materials, regardless of type or manufacturer, will leak when that pressure differential is reached. Gore-tex has the highest point of reverse permeability but it, too, will allow water to flow backwards through the material when that pressure differential is reached. Even the multi-layer stuff.
You haven't reached that point is the best anyone can claim. I have. More than once. With a 3-layer non-Gore product and with a Gore-Tex Pro product, and neither had been punctured. They will keep you dry to a point, after which they won't. That's all I'm saying.
Well, that, plus they'll bake you if you're in sunshine all day. :smt077
I've used wetsuits and drysuits, and I can see that there are some pros and cons to each. But, I'm confused by the line of reasoning in this response. Yes, with enough pressure, water can get thru Gore-Tex, but the rating for the Gore-Tex Pro in my drysuit is something like 28,000 mm water column, and I don't believe you can reach anything close to that in any real-world scenario. If you were getting wet in your Gore-Tex, I'd bet my bottom dollar that is was due to some issues with poorly sealed seams or other small holes.
Furthermore, if I don't wear my Gore-Tex, what's the alternative? If I'm wearing any breathable fabric other than Gore-Tex, it's going to do worse. On the other hand, supposing that I'm wearing a wetsuit, and I'm above the water and getting soaked. Then I'll probably be freezing, on many days to the point of hypothermia. If I'm in the water, the wetsuit will do its job, but so will my Gore-Tex drysuit (unless it's holey), as there is no way I'm going to even approach the pressure limits--unless I try to swim to the bottom of the Mariana Trench (OK, that's an exaggeration...).
Finally, I'd just add that I pedal a lot, and I get overheated easily. I always wear multiple socks, smartwool long johns, smartwool and rashguard on top (and an additional layer on top if it's especially cold) under my drysuit. Only on the hottest days do I need to strip off anything on the water. It seems to me that for Monterey Bay weather, my drysuit is remarkably good at not cooking me.
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I have a super-newbie question since there's a lot of discussion here from people experienced with wetsuits....
does it lessen/negate wetsuit effectiveness to wear a shirt underneath a wetsuit? I have a 3mm wetsuit that is quite comfortable that I like to kayak in, but as it gets colder, I've considered wearing a thermal shirt underneath it just for an extra layer of warmth (not while immersed, just while kayaking). Yes I know I could throw on a jacket over... but my pfd fits pretty snugly and I like it that way, so I really hate to wear a jacket over the wetsuit before putting on a PFD.
But if that thermal shirt will somehow interfere with the natural warmth-retaining function of a wetsuit, then I'll find another solution.
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Dry suits really do keep you dry...
Peter, I know you're smart enough to understand the manufacturers' data about permeability across a pressure differential, and all breathable materials, regardless of type or manufacturer, will leak when that pressure differential is reached. Gore-tex has the highest point of reverse permeability but it, too, will allow water to flow backwards through the material when that pressure differential is reached. Even the multi-layer stuff.
You haven't reached that point is the best anyone can claim. I have. More than once. With a 3-layer non-Gore product and with a Gore-Tex Pro product, and neither had been punctured. They will keep you dry to a point, after which they won't. That's all I'm saying.
Well, that, plus they'll bake you if you're in sunshine all day. :smt077
I've used wetsuits and drysuits, and I can see that there are some pros and cons to each. But, I'm confused by the line of reasoning in this response. Yes, with enough pressure, water can get thru Gore-Tex, but the rating for the Gore-Tex Pro in my drysuit is something like 28,000 mm water column, and I don't believe you can reach anything close to that in any real-world scenario. If you were getting wet in your Gore-Tex, I'd bet my bottom dollar that is was due to some issues with poorly sealed seams or other small holes.
Furthermore, if I don't wear my Gore-Tex, what's the alternative? If I'm wearing any breathable fabric other than Gore-Tex, it's going to do worse. On the other hand, supposing that I'm wearing a wetsuit, and I'm above the water and getting soaked. Then I'll probably be freezing, on many days to the point of hypothermia. If I'm in the water, the wetsuit will do its job, but so will my Gore-Tex drysuit (unless it's holey), as there is no way I'm going to even approach the pressure limits--unless I try to swim to the bottom of the Mariana Trench (OK, that's an exaggeration...).
Finally, I'd just add that I pedal a lot, and I get overheated easily. I always wear multiple socks, smartwool long johns, smartwool and rashguard on top (and an additional layer on top if it's especially cold) under my drysuit. Only on the hottest days do I need to strip off anything on the water. It seems to me that for Monterey Bay weather, my drysuit is remarkably good at not cooking me.
Completely agree with Nowhereman. I like being dry and not wet. I started with a 3mil FJ wetsuit and now using an angler semi drysuit. My 1st drysuit was the Hydrus fabric and upgraded to Goretex that I now use. My Goretex suit is about 5 years old and has been sent to Kokatat for leak repair regularly. Its faded and stained but its still very breathable and keeps my dry. I've never gone back to wearing a wetsuit. Here is an expapiner video.
https://youtu.be/5l72iorG3AY
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Sad I tore my Kokatat drysuit at HMB last weekend when taking it off. Hoping it can be repaired, but I'm afraid to wash it now prior to sending in case it tears more. :smt009
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Sad I tore my Kokatat drysuit at HMB last weekend when taking it off. Hoping it can be repaired, but I'm afraid to wash it now prior to sending in case it tears more. :smt009
They'll just say your beastly. Got my first noticeable hole from rockfish recently.. :smt076
or ling :scratch:
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Dry suits really do keep you dry. I have spent many 4-6 hour days snorkeling and speargunning in a dry suit, and my clothing stays dry underneath it. A dry suit makes outstanding rain gear; I have spent many days whitewater kayaking and kayak fishing in a steady rain and wind, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. And I have spent many days whitewater kayaking in a dry suit, getting hit by heavy breaking waves and blasting through holes, and my clothing stays dry under the dry suit. On multi-day whitewater kayak trips, I wear the same clothing on and off the river, knowing that I can rely on my dry suit to keep the clothing dry while running whitewater during the day. A dry suit makes it unnecessary for me to carry a complete set of on-shore clothing inside my kayak, and makes it unnecessary for me to dry out my on-river clothing at night, which in cool and rainy weather can be difficult to do.
I know how much clothing I have to wear under a dry suit to stay comfortable for hours in the water at various water temperatures, such as in the lower 50s. But to stay comfortable and relatively safe in a dry suit when kayak fishing, you need to compromise. Because I hope to stay in my kayak and not end up in the water, I usually wear enough clothing under my dry suit to stay comfortable while fishing after checking weather predictions for the anticipated air temperature, wind, and precipitation, which is usually not enough clothing for me to stay comfortable for an extended stay in the water, but is enough clothing to keep me relatively warm for a couple minutes while I right my kayak and climb back onto it. If I expect the air temperature to be cool in the morning and warmer in the afternoon, I'll wear an appropriate amount of clothing under my dry suit so I won't overheat in the afternoon, will wear a parka or a pile jacket over my dry suit in the morning to stay warm, and will take off the over-layers as the air temperature increases later in the day. Putting on and taking off a pile hat or balaclava is a good way to adjust your comfort for changes in the air temperature or wind speed during the day; I wear them under my sun hat or waterproof rain hat.
Here's a couple pictures from a four-day 116-mile whitewater kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho, launching on Marsh Creek, where we paddled through snow on the shore, and sometimes falling snow, for the first day and a half. I wore the same clothing on the river under my dry suit, and off the river in camp and while hiking, and my dry suit kept the clothing dry.
Wondering what kind of gloves are used... guessing neoprene?
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I have a super-newbie question since there's a lot of discussion here from people experienced with wetsuits....
does it lessen/negate wetsuit effectiveness to wear a shirt underneath a wetsuit? I have a 3mm wetsuit that is quite comfortable that I like to kayak in, but as it gets colder, I've considered wearing a thermal shirt underneath it just for an extra layer of warmth (not while immersed, just while kayaking). Yes I know I could throw on a jacket over... but my pfd fits pretty snugly and I like it that way, so I really hate to wear a jacket over the wetsuit before putting on a PFD.
But if that thermal shirt will somehow interfere with the natural warmth-retaining function of a wetsuit, then I'll find another solution.
Anything you put between your skin and a wetsuit will somewhat negate their heat retaining properties, the thicker the shirt the more water it will absorb and your body will have to heat up. Try wearing the same shirt over your suit. To me 3mil isn't enough, yeah enough for a quick dip and remount, but if things go bad and you're in the water awhile not so much.
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
In that scenario I'd personally be more concerned with being able to pee than the comfort factor.
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
i wear a 3/4full with a back zipper. i fold the wetsuit down most of the time but usually full zip on surf launch, depending on how bad it looks. usually fold down when otw. when folded down the zipper rubs into your back and is annoying. usually i zip it halfway up so it’s not between my lower back and the seat. peeing is not a problem, just fold the wetsuit down. when i launch somewhere nice - inshore/flat ocean i wear the wetsuit backwards so the zipper is in the front and doesn’t rub.
also u need to know what you’re looking for when buying used wetsuit. wetsuits don’t last forever, esp in kayak. they get worn down from the seat
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
A zipper across the shoulders of a drysuit should be well above the back of a kayak seat, so it isn't a comfort issue. The issue is whether you can zip and unzip the back zipper by yourself. Put on the dry suit and try to zip and unzip the zipper. If you can't operate the zipper yourself, and would need to have a companion zip and unzip the zipper, don't buy the dry suit.
A story: On a multi-day kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Flathead, started by flying into Shaffer Meadows in the Big Bear Wilderness and floating out to the southern point of Glacier Park, a friend was wearing a rear-entry dry suit. We stopped to scout a rapid which had cliffs on both sides, and didn't notice that the friend had stepped into the bushes to empty his bowels. We ran the rapid and were sitting in the eddy below it when the friend emerged from the bushes, looked around, and saw us sitting in the eddy. His shoulders slumped, because he couldn't zip up his zipper by himself, and he couldn't hike down to us because of the cliffs. We sat in the eddy and watched for about 15 minutes while he struggled with the zipper. I think he finally managed to hook the zipper pull on a tree branch and use that to pull the zipper closed.
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
A zipper across the shoulders of a drysuit should be well above the back of a kayak seat, so it isn't a comfort issue. The issue is whether you can zip and unzip the back zipper by yourself. Put on the dry suit and try to zip and unzip the zipper. If you can't operate the zipper yourself, and would need to have a companion zip and unzip the zipper, don't buy the dry suit.
A story: On a multi-day kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Flathead, started by flying into Shaffer Meadows in the Big Bear Wilderness and floating out to the southern point of Glacier Park, a friend was wearing a rear-entry dry suit. We stopped to scout a rapid which had cliffs on both sides, and didn't notice that the friend had stepped into the bushes to empty his bowels. We ran the rapid and were sitting in the eddy below it when the friend emerged from the bushes, looked around, and saw us sitting in the eddy. His shoulders slumped, because he couldn't zip up his zipper by himself, and he couldn't hike down to us because of the cliffs. We sat in the eddy and watched for about 15 minutes while he struggled with the zipper. I think he finally managed to hook the zipper pull on a tree branch and use that to pull the zipper closed.
Its a back zipper on a wetsuit. Like a zipper up your spine.
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Comfort question.
Is a back zipper a deal breaker in a kayak wetsuit? will it be a source of discomfort while in the seat?
A zipper across the shoulders of a drysuit should be well above the back of a kayak seat, so it isn't a comfort issue. The issue is whether you can zip and unzip the back zipper by yourself. Put on the dry suit and try to zip and unzip the zipper. If you can't operate the zipper yourself, and would need to have a companion zip and unzip the zipper, don't buy the dry suit.
A story: On a multi-day kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Flathead, started by flying into Shaffer Meadows in the Big Bear Wilderness and floating out to the southern point of Glacier Park, a friend was wearing a rear-entry dry suit. We stopped to scout a rapid which had cliffs on both sides, and didn't notice that the friend had stepped into the bushes to empty his bowels. We ran the rapid and were sitting in the eddy below it when the friend emerged from the bushes, looked around, and saw us sitting in the eddy. His shoulders slumped, because he couldn't zip up his zipper by himself, and he couldn't hike down to us because of the cliffs. We sat in the eddy and watched for about 15 minutes while he struggled with the zipper. I think he finally managed to hook the zipper pull on a tree branch and use that to pull the zipper closed.
Its a back zipper on a wetsuit. Like a zipper up your spine.
Ooops. I misread Sprmario's reply.
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It is a good point to consider nonetheless.
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I had a conversation with a fellow (former) kayaker who almost died in cold water. He made a few mistakes that nearly cost him his life.
1. Fished alone in the ocean.
2. Went out on a fairly windy day with some significant swells.
3. Wore a dry suit that eventually filled with water after he went over and was in the water for 5 hours.
4. Never did a test to make sure he could get back on his yak... (he couldn't)
I'll always remember that conversation with him...
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I had a conversation with a fellow (former) kayaker who almost died in cold water. He made a few mistakes that nearly cost him his life.
1. Fished alone in the ocean.
2. Went out on a fairly windy day with some significant swells.
3. Wore a dry suit that eventually filled with water after he went over and was in the water for 5 hours.
4. Never did a test to make sure he could get back on his yak... (he couldn't)
I'll always remember that conversation with him...
Yikes, that's terrifying. Did he eventually self-rescue or did someone find him and assist?
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I had a conversation with a fellow (former) kayaker who almost died in cold water. He made a few mistakes that nearly cost him his life.
1. Fished alone in the ocean.
2. Went out on a fairly windy day with some significant swells.
3. Wore a dry suit that eventually filled with water after he went over and was in the water for 5 hours.
4. Never did a test to make sure he could get back on his yak... (he couldn't)
I'll always remember that conversation with him...
I am curious how this person lasted 5 hours floating in the ocean.
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A sightseer from the shore spotted him and called the coast guard. They came and rescued him... to the bottom of the cliffs, then had to air lift him to the hospital for severe hypothermia of which he was in for a week.
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I figure drysuits must have improved a lot especially ones designed for sport use They just don’t suit me no pun intended
I used the drysuit I bought in the 70s for a lot of hours in icy cold water and was always cooked which was one reason I ditched it (still have it) My wetsuit at the time was also too hot if I wore all three pieces which I never did
Sounds like that guy’s drysuit either leaked from damage or just didn’t fit right He made other mistakes but that’s another thing
Typically I spend 2-6 hours swimming in the ocean in a pretty good wetsuit (it’s still inferior to my old custom suits) and I get chilled but not really hypothermic
That story about one guy wouldn’t rule out drysuits for me I have my own reasons for preferring wetsuits But it does show there’s a little more to it than just wearing a drysuit
The thread is about realistic immersion gear Whatever you wear you should put to the test before something happens you didn’t expect So you have a feel for how it is to swim and if it keeps you warm Especially in winter
Somebody here mentioned free diving in a drysuit which I could see, but you have to remember if you’re kayaking you’re not wearing fins which give you a big advantage in the water
I worked in both and one of the reasons I prefer wetsuits is you move different than in a drysuit, with or without fins
Waders are like a recipe for drowning and should’ve been dc’ed decades ago
Hawaiian board shorts and a tshirt would be better
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I figure drysuits must have improved a lot especially ones designed for sport use They just don’t suit me no pun intended
I used the drysuit I bought in the 70s for a lot of hours in icy cold water and was always cooked which was one reason I ditched it (still have it) My wetsuit at the time was also too hot if I wore all three pieces which I never did
Sounds like that guy’s drysuit either leaked from damage or just didn’t fit right He made other mistakes but that’s another thing
Typically I spend 2-6 hours swimming in the ocean in a pretty good wetsuit (it’s still inferior to my old custom suits) and I get chilled but not really hypothermic
That story about one guy wouldn’t rule out drysuits for me I have my own reasons for preferring wetsuits But it does show there’s a little more to it than just wearing a drysuit
The thread is about realistic immersion gear Whatever you wear you should put to the test before something happens you didn’t expect So you have a feel for how it is to swim and if it keeps you warm Especially in winter
Somebody here mentioned free diving in a drysuit which I could see, but you have to remember if you’re kayaking you’re not wearing fins which give you a big advantage in the water
I worked in both and one of the reasons I prefer wetsuits is you move different than in a drysuit, with or without fins
Waders are like a recipe for drowning and should’ve been dc’ed decades ago
Hawaiian board shorts and a tshirt would be better
Lots of very valuable wisdom being shared in this thread. Testing your gear is crucial, and having a diver's perspective is a big advantage, for sure.
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I had a conversation with a fellow (former) kayaker who almost died in cold water. He made a few mistakes that nearly cost him his life.
1. Fished alone in the ocean.
2. Went out on a fairly windy day with some significant swells.
3. Wore a dry suit that eventually filled with water after he went over and was in the water for 5 hours.
4. Never did a test to make sure he could get back on his yak... (he couldn't)
I'll always remember that conversation with him...
I am curious how this person lasted 5 hours floating in the ocean.
Me three. Especially if his drysuit filled with water, as I don't think he'd have lasted too long after that...
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I had a conversation with a fellow (former) kayaker who almost died in cold water. He made a few mistakes that nearly cost him his life.
1. Fished alone in the ocean.
2. Went out on a fairly windy day with some significant swells.
3. Wore a dry suit that eventually filled with water after he went over and was in the water for 5 hours.
4. Never did a test to make sure he could get back on his yak... (he couldn't)
I'll always remember that conversation with him...
I snorkel and speargun for pike in Montana in a dry suit, typically spending 4-6 hours in the water, and the clothing I was wearing under the dry suit will be dry enough to wear on the drive home. So it would be interesting to know why that former kayaker's dry suit got water in it. One possibility is that he was wearing a semi-dry suit with neoprene gaskets rather than a real dry suit with latex gaskets. A second possibility is that he failed to close a zipper all the way. A third possibility is that the dry suit had been damaged and had leaks, such as from fish spines or teeth. Whatever the reason he got water in his dry suit, the water would make it harder for him to climb back into his kayak.
But failing to become proficient at climbing back into his kayak ("self rescue") was a major error in judgment. I almost did that when I bought a 12' Pro Angler 360, and assumed that I could climb back into it as easily as I can climb back into my other kayaks. I can right my 13' Revolution and climb back onto it in about 20 seconds. I snorkel and speargun from a 13' Ocean Kayak Trident, and climb back into it many times a day wearing 13-16 pounds of weights on my body and about 2.5 pounds on each ankle. I bought a 12' Pro Angler 360 last November, and assumed that that I would be able to climb back into it as easily as I could climb back into my other kayaks. But when the weather and water finally warmed up enough in the early summer that I felt like practicing self rescue in the Pro Angler, I was shocked to discover that it was much harder for me to climb back into the Pro Angler than it is for me to climb back into my other kayaks. I'm getting old and feeble, and it took all my strength to climb back into the Pro Angler. Sometimes I would hang up part of the way in. I was concerned that in big waves and wind, which is the kind of conditions in which I might flip the pretty stable Pro Angler, I might pull the kayak over on top of myself while trying to re-enter it. If that happened a couple of times in cold air and water conditions, I might become too tired to successfully climb back into the Pro Angler. I experimented with various techniques and with rope ladders, but wasn't confident that I was certain to be able to climb back into the kayak in bad conditions. So I installed a telescoping boat ladder on the bow of the Pro Angler, which makes it real easy for me to climb back into the kayak. See my video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDET-AAnOjo
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Very cool ladder idea Pete. Thanks for sharing this mod. :smt006
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So much great information and experience in this thread.
I've been reading, researching, and watching videos on YT.
Came across this one: Man OVERBOARD! (ME) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBeVzMV10c&t=125s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQBeVzMV10c&t=125s)
He goes over the incident in detail.
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10 seconds into this I know it's going to be good. :smt044
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Oh, well not really a bad situation just a bad move while underway to re-adjust his seat. The kayak looked so stable as he fell off, yep it's not always a flip that will put you into the water.
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I can’t remember the last time I saw a stable kayak
AI or TI maybe but they pretty much qualify for boathood
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All these videos are showing up in my YT feed now.
Sorry if this is posted in another thread, but it's something relevant to this particular thread.
Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch
Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch (http://Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch)
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All these videos are showing up in my YT feed now.
Sorry if this is posted in another thread, but it's something relevant to this particular thread.
Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch
Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch (http://Death Awaited in Cold Water Kayak Flip - Sickening to Watch)
Save some time an jump about 04:00: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SRIo0nfwq8
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"25mph with 40mph gusts, 48 degree water temps, no pfd, no vhf. he's lucky to be alive because he was in the running for the darwin award"
Sheesh.
I'm a noob to the ocean still. I'll probably stick to going with a buddy forever.
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First time I went into the water wasn't while kayaking, but actually just stepping off my kayak onto a dock. As I stood up onto it I lost my balance and thought I could step back into my kayak, and just fell in basically. :smt009
It was January, water temps were so low as soon as I hit the water it felt like I was punched in the gut and I couldn't do anything but gasp for air and try and feebly try to recover some of my gear still floating near by. I was dressed warm for being outside, but not for going into the water. I was only 10ft from shore but had to push myself to get out of the water. I was then exhausted from what must have been less than a minute from the reaction to the cold water. Like your whole body tenses up when it gets shocked with that much cold.
Glad I was close to shore, but I never went in cold temps again without dressing for immersion, and still do.
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First time I went into the water wasn't while kayaking, but actually just stepping off my kayak onto a dock. As I stood up onto it I lost my balance and thought I could step back into my kayak, and just fell in basically. :smt009
It was January, water temps were so low as soon as I hit the water it felt like I was punched in the gut and I couldn't do anything but gasp for air and try and feebly try to recover some of my gear still floating near by. I was dressed warm for being outside, but not for going into the water. I was only 10ft from shore but had to push myself to get out of the water. I was then exhausted from what must have been less than a minute from the reaction to the cold water. Like your whole body tenses up when it gets shocked with that much cold.
Glad I was close to shore, but I never went in cold temps again without dressing for immersion, and still do.
Thanks for sharing your experience Al.
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Waay back in the day, when I was young, dumb, and... you know, full of ideas. My friends and I got invited to stay with them at the Housekeeping Camp in Yosemite. I think we had the perfect spot, at the end of the camp, right next to the river. It's the middle of June, and snow is still melting into the Merced River. My friend and I decided to jump off the bridge nearby at the camp. We both jumped in at the same time. We were just wearing swim trunks. I'd say my friend and I were in good health and shape at the time. After we jumped in, surfaced, caught our breath, looked at each other, we looked back at the bridge and noticed how fast we were already down stream. Very cold water. Muscles were cramping up. We swam to shore as fast as we could. We weren't even in the water that long. My friends helped us get up onto the bank, and brought us back to camp. I was skinny back then, and my friend was bigger than me with more mass. They said I looked like a ghost when I got out of the water. I needed help walking back to camp, which was close by. I took off my trunks, changed into some clothes, and got into the sleeping bag, and they piled their sleeping bags on top of me. I was shivering in the fetal position. My friends parents checked up on me every so often. I went to sleep and didn't wake up 'til dinner time. Stories were shared, head shaking, facepalms, etc. Med evac helicopters were heard throughout the valley periodically while we were there. Everyday for the four days we were there. My friends thought that they'd have to come for me too. This made me look up the different stages of Hypothermia. I definitely had moderate hypothermia. My friend was able to shake off his mild hypothermia by getting into full clothing, getting warm, and walking around. I definitely learned something.
TL;DR: Young guy has no idea what jumping into a river being fed by snow meltoff will do to his body. Luckily, gets out of water quickly and survives mild hypothermia. Learns lesson.
With all the helpful information in this thread, knowing how my body is now, my physical strength, what I've experienced, the comfort level I like, I'm going to go with a semi-dry suit.
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Great story, ty for sharing it!
Just found this older thread by coincidence which is another tale of flipping in FW but due to a down-rigger snag: http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=94407.msg325474;topicseen#new
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Great story, ty for sharing it!
Just found this older thread by coincidence which is another tale of flipping in FW but due to a down-rigger snag: http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=94407.msg325474;topicseen#new
Glad to share here!
That's one of my fears. Snagging on something with the downrigger deployed.
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Was there a thread for kayak fishing fail vidoes? I can't recall :smt005
This one's been pretty entertaining
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOn0Z9_8GF0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S8t21bITy4 :smt044
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhMChqjb3EQ
:smt044
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My advice is this: 4/3 NRS farmer John with zipper in the front, long sleeve hydro-skin shirt underneath. Paddle pants(without sewn in feet) and paddle jacket on top. Neoprene booties with full traction rubber-soles. Never wear cotton. Cotton kills.
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The guy said he went in for a swim.
TL;DW,
Kayak fisherman narrates his outing, winds pick up to 20+ MPH, goes for a swim, gets rescued by Coast Guard.
No footage of going into water, or rescue...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cH_1UcKdqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cH_1UcKdqI)
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Kinda meh story there, although it started out pretty good. His lessons learned left a lot to be desired, although the caution about going in and out of high current areas is definetly good to be sharing. He didn't mention anything about how he learned that he should do anything different the next time out. Kept waiting for it...
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This one I think is a pretty good example of an experienced kayaker making a small mistake that caused him to yard sale on the way back in. The launch was pretty intense but he nailed it, had a good day on the water, then wiped out. The lessons learned at the end of the video are good ones we all learn after making mistakes ourselfs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwN2LHKH3d0&t=195s
Oh and the music is friggin classic :smt005. Gonna have to steal that song for later. :smt004
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What a mess
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This one I think is a pretty good example of an experienced kayaker making a small mistake that caused him to yard sale on the way back in. The launch was pretty intense but he nailed it, had a good day on the water, then wiped out. The lessons learned at the end of the video are good ones we all learn after making mistakes ourselfs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwN2LHKH3d0&t=195s
Oh and the music is friggin classic :smt005. Gonna have to steal that song for later. :smt004
Why did he get off the kayak so soon? Did he think that he was in much shallower water? Am I missing something?
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Did he think that he was in much shallower water? Am I missing something?
I bet that's what happened. Judging the water depth as I come in for landing is the hardest thing I've struggled with. I've gotten out when I thought it was 2' deep to find out it's 6' deep way too many times.
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For years, I used a poorman’s drysuit—which is a farmer john wetsuit with cheapo paddling pants and paddling jacket over the wetsuit. The paddling pants & jacket will keep you dry and comfy while the wetsuit keeps you warm and immersion-ready. You can even go with disposable rain poncho pants if you’re extra-frugal.
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For years, I used a poorman’s drysuit—which is a farmer john wetsuit with cheapo paddling pants and paddling jacket over the wetsuit. The paddling pants & jacket will keep you dry and comfy while the wetsuit keeps you warm and immersion-ready. You can even go with disposable rain poncho pants if you’re extra-frugal.
+1
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Speaking of immersion
Some video I took at steamers the other day
https://vimeo.com/802154854
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My son trying out his new padillac
https://vimeo.com/802154248
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For years, I used a poorman’s drysuit—which is a farmer john wetsuit with cheapo paddling pants and paddling jacket over the wetsuit. The paddling pants & jacket will keep you dry and comfy while the wetsuit keeps you warm and immersion-ready. You can even go with disposable rain poncho pants if you’re extra-frugal.
I still use this setup. Works great, and easy to shed layers if I get too warm. And, no puncture hazard to a dry suit.
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Speaking of immersion
Some video I took at steamers the other day
https://vimeo.com/802154854
Great videos, looks fun!
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Can you see any fish while doing that :smt003
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I’ve been thinking about taking a weight belt and speargun but need to keep the camera rolling on my son
Some more immersion fun
https://vimeo.com/731615963
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHL34dDtHDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHL34dDtHDI)
I've never had to loosen up or take out the drain plug on my 'yak. Check it, yes, but always ensuring that it is screwed on, and tightly sealed.
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All that shit onboard, but no radio or bilge pump? :smt011
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WARNING! Adult content around 11:00 mark. Seriously, take the sport more serious.
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Alright, I'm gonna bring up an idea again that I had years ago. CO2 hooked to a quick release pin mechanism, hooked to a made to fit bladder. Two of these set fore and aft inside the hull with a through hull string release. Pull the string, triggers the pin that punctures the CO2, inflates the bladder(s), ejects water from inside the hull, you limp back without submarining.
I don't have the time or resources to make something like this, but seems easy enough for someone with time on their hands and more brains between their ears than I have.
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You should delete that post and get a patent going
Although I think once you make an idea public it’s no longer patentable
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All that shit onboard, but no radio or bilge pump? :smt011
I had same thought. Cue grumpy old fart rant....tf IS all that crap? Arms and stuff poking out all over the place. Looks like a bad Sci fi movie alien spaceship
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Alright, I'm gonna bring up an idea again that I had years ago. CO2 hooked to a quick release pin mechanism, hooked to a made to fit bladder. Two of these set fore and aft inside the hull with a through hull string release. Pull the string, triggers the pin that punctures the CO2, inflates the bladder(s), ejects water from inside the hull, you limp back without submarining.
I don't have the time or resources to make something like this, but seems easy enough for someone with time on their hands and more brains between their ears than I have.
What's the advantage over stuffing a half dozen pool noodles in your hull and just leaving them there from day 1?
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Alright, I'm gonna bring up an idea again that I had years ago. CO2 hooked to a quick release pin mechanism, hooked to a made to fit bladder. Two of these set fore and aft inside the hull with a through hull string release. Pull the string, triggers the pin that punctures the CO2, inflates the bladder(s), ejects water from inside the hull, you limp back without submarining.
I don't have the time or resources to make something like this, but seems easy enough for someone with time on their hands and more brains between their ears than I have.
What's the advantage over stuffing a half dozen pool noodles in your hull and just leaving them there from day 1?
Having usable hull space I guess. If the bladder was banded and out of the way, attached to the mechanism which would be screwed (I guess) to the hull, you'd have the space and less weight. But whatever floats your boat I guess.
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You should delete that post and get a patent going
Although I think once you make an idea public it’s no longer patentable
If you were referring to my idea, I'd be happy if someone took it and ran with it. I honestly don't have the time for something like that. If it helped out our community I'd be happy.