NorCal Kayak Anglers
Kayak Zone => Gearing Up and Rigging Up => Topic started by: Eric B on August 16, 2007, 05:18:38 PM
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Ok, it may be time for me to upgrade reels for kayaking, at least. In the past for rockfishing I've used the classic Penn Squidder 146, (narrow spool), and 500's, as well as some classic Mitchell spinners. I don't think I need that much line and weight for kayak fishing, though.
Actually the Squidder would be ok, size-wise, but I'm afraid the bearings would get fouled when dunked in the wash.
So my question is, is there a modern conventional reel that uses bushings rather than bearings, (like the old 500's), and is tuff and easy to maintain, like the old Penns?
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Abu's! Inexpensive to medium expensive,bushing or bearing. Simple light weight construction and easy to service and hotrod. Different sizes to accommodate spectra in various combinations.
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Pack the bearings with grease and go with it.
I just opened up my TLD15 that I blew out recently. The side plate bearing had seized up and I didn't know it. Over time the pinion gear, which sits up against this bearing, wore down. After a while ... kaboom ... one dead reel. Now I wish I had taken the time to pry up the bearing shields and pack them with grease.
-Allen
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for stuff around here its hard to beat an ABU...I have many and have more on the way.
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Another vote for the Abus. I've often felt that the Abu's are cheap enough that you don't worry about the wear and tear, but they are high enough quality that you can depend upon them when you have a good fish on.
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Abu it is!
Can anyone recommend a specific model, with no bearings, no levelwind, squider-sized or smaller?
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I love ABU's as well, great little reels, but if you want a little beefer go get a AVET SX.
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Another great option is a narrow spool jigmaster...the 501. It is lighter, fits in the hand better, and casts better than the 500. It has bushings rather than bearings, and is easy to break down for service if it gets soaked. They don't make them anymore, so you'll have to keep your eyes open (ebay) or convert a standard jigmaster with narrow posts and spool. If you have a 500 sitting around, the conversion kits are maybe 35.00.
Easier to get an ABU, which I love as well, but the Penn is a reel suited for heavier use.
Either way, you can't go wrong.
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Abu it is!
Can anyone recommend a specific model, with no bearings, no levelwind, squider-sized or smaller?
I'm not aware of a non-level wind bearing-less Abu, but the Ambassadeur 6500 C3 would probably meet your needs pretty well. I've used mine in the surf quite a bit and done nothing more than rinsed it off with the garden hose after each trip. It's held up well with minimal/non-existent maintenance.
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Those reels all look great, (especially that AVET SX- what a beauty!), but I'm just not sure bearings are a good thing on a reel that will have sand rinsed into it on a regular basis. Think AK-47 of reels... loose tolerances so the sand falls thru instead of jamming it, (like the Penn Jigmasters).
The Penn 501 looks like a good option, but still kinda large and heavy.
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my choice would be a narrow spool jigmaster 501 with straight 30# mono and a jigmaster #24-56 power handle. the 501 is the narrowed version of the 500 and has bushings, not bearings. the 506 is narrowed version of the 505 which has the 5:1 gears and bearings.
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The 501 is gonna be roughly the same size as the narrow spool squidder. I used mine on a heavier stick when fishing 8 oz's or more but that was rare. I've had a love hate relationship with my Avet SX, its a small powerful reel capable of handling most any fish you'll encounter here. I'm not convinced that the lever drag is that great, on my sx there's not much drag difference between full and strike to make a difference in switching. For a while I didn't like it cause I make drag adjustments while fighting fish all the time, yes I brake all the cardinal rules :smt004, and thats something you simply can't do very easily with a lever drag. I think it would suit the needs of 95% of the fishermen. Another reel thats gotten no mention here is the newell 220, its gonna be the same size class as the sx and larger abu's. My 229(slightly larger than the 220) has served me well despite me constantly beating it up. As have my Ambassaduers and diawa. The trend toward smaller gear has generated a ton of capable reels. As far as being bomb proof, no reel is, but I've had all the above mentioned reels in the yak sometimes submersed or splashed/sanded and haven't lost anything to corrosion....this is after only a quick freshwater spray down. You might wanna figure out your budget, intended use and whether or not you won't mind losing premium gear should you take a swim then make the decision.
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Two other reels that have been a great value and have held up very well for me over the years...
Shimano TR100G... inexpensive and has bushings. Very low maintenance and high performance if you upgrade the drags ala Alan Tani. Nice and light in the hand.
Daiwa Sealine Linecounters (SG17LC and SG27LC). I've done drag upgrades on these as well and they've been performing very well for me. I use the 17 for rockfishing on my lighter rod that I use with up to 4 oz jigs.
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I don't mind paying good money for a reel that will last and not sieze up out on the water. One good dunk in sandy water will make most reels useless immediately. I fish with one rig, so it's gotta be a reliable. I won't lose it... one rig means I can keep it leashed at all times.
Thabks for all the suggestions. That AVET looks sweet, the TR100G looks tuff, and the 501 is probably my top choice of what's been mentioned here. Still I'd like a miniature version, though.
Looking over some old Penn specs, the 180 Baymaster looks like it could be just the ticket: 12.5 oz. compared to the 20 oz. 501, 250yards of 20lb, bushings... this could be exactly what I'm looking for.
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IMO: an AVET pimped out by Alan Tani.....that's how I roll :smt045 I LOVE the light weight of this reel and it's ability to handle some decent fish.
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Of all the saltwater reels I use, the TR100G has been the most durable and low maintenance. A close second would be the ABU 5500/6500 CL3's.
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I have a pile of ambassadeurs purchased used on ebay in various states of hotrod-ification.
(carbon fiber drag, stainless steel pinion gear, level-wind removal, power handle, ceramic bearings).
if one breaks, I'll just stick another on. you can mix and match parts to get different gear ratios and spool sizes.
they seem to handle the salt surprisingly well. I think the instant anti-reverse is the weak link but mine are okay so far.
an anti-reverse dog would be better.
no reel will be okay after a significant sandy dunking, you'll have to take it apart and clean it. that might take awhile so you might as well have a backup or two. or nine, :smt003.
I also finally found a couple used left handed newells on ebay if I ever get the chance to fish for "big" fish.
actually took a newell out for WSB hunting on saturday.
those avets are nice, but $150+ and six bearings? how long are those going to stay good? might as well take up fly fishing
with that kind of foofy sissy-boy gear, :smt005. or move to so-cal, :smt044.
If I liked right handed reels, I might just use a penn seaboy 185. $30, 12 oz, no level wind. what more do you need?
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Shimano or Daiwa...end or story...
Ken kickfish
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I might just use a penn seaboy 185. $30, 12 oz, no level wind. what more do you need?
I have a 180 Baymaster on the way. Very similar to the 185.
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The Baymaster arrived and I'm disappointed... It doesn't have the easy breeakdown screw like the Squidders and Jigmasters, and the handle is goofy. It IS the perfect size, however, (even narrower than the Squidder 145).
I'm going with the Squidder for now, and I'll keep my eyes peeled for a 185 or 501.
Thanks again for all the suggestions.
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you could get a different handle for the 180 I'm sure.
$40 for a new seaboy 185:
http://www.pennfishingstore.com/penn-185-reel.html?productid=penn-185-reel&channelid=FROOG
at 17 oz it seems a little heavy still, but it's definitely got the complete and total lack of bling cool, :smt002.
kind of like buying one of those VW bugs made in mexico just last year, :smt004.
btw, what don't you like about the squidder? just a little too big?
J
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I love the squidder, just worried the bearings will get corroded or freeze up if sand gets in there.
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I think the squidder just has bushings. unless you upgraded it?
basically if you really do dump that thing, you have to take it apart or
take it to somebody like alan tani and let them do it.
no reel can handle as serious sandy dunk without being cleaned.
kind of sounds like you have the perfect reel already, just keep that 180 for
backup use if the squidder is in for service?
John.
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I still have my 1st Penn reel(146 squidder) it has gone through many changes over the years.Some of the mods were an Penn aluminum spool,Accurate frame,baby international style power handle, spectra line,hi-perf reel oil on the bearings,greased HT-100 drag washers and greasing all the screw holes and metal to metal contacts to minimize corrosion. Because of the easy take down cleaning is a snap. It is a fine reel for all the bottomfish and salmon. I probably wouldn't target Albacore, the little drags might not last too long but it holds enough spectra if you wanted to screw around.
Really my only gripes with that reel is the low gear ratio and the weight. Most other reels will not be as simple to clean out after a roll over in the salt. The Penns are the Old School workhorse reels and great entry level tools that can be upgraded.
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If anyone is worried about sand why not just stow your reels when entering and exiting the surf or at the very least get a good reel cover??
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The Penns are the Old School workhorse reels and great entry level tools that can be upgraded.
The old school Penns are the workhorses. I passed by a new 500 jigmaster yesterday at sports chalet :thumbdown:
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Agreed, I have been going thru my old Penns and the new ones are not built to the same standards.
Seems like there's a niche they missed, though... The 501 narrow spooled Jigmaster is still a monster of a reel, and noone needs that much line, imo... correct me if I'm wrong...
The 185 Seaboy would be perfect, but lacks the easy takedown/cleaning of the Squidder and Jigmasters.
I know I'm probably over analyzing this, the narrow Squidder is about as close to perfection as I should reasonably expect... but with bushings and a little less weight it would be a truly perfect yak ocean reel, imo.
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Agreed, I have been going thru my old Penns and the new ones are not built to the same standards.
Seems like there's a niche they missed, though... The 501 narrow spooled Jigmaster is still a monster of a reel, and noone needs that much line, imo... correct me if I'm wrong...
The 185 Seaboy would be perfect, but lacks the easy takedown/cleaning of the Squidder and Jigmasters.
I know I'm probably over analyzing this, the narrow Squidder is about as close to perfection as I should reasonably expect... but with bushings and a little less weight it would be a truly perfect yak ocean reel, imo.
Analyzing is fun. :smt002
I think you are basically right that the ideal nor-cal inshore reel does not exist in an unmodified state.
Which is kind of good as people that like to optimize and hot rod have something to do.
some of my reel adventures are here:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,3724.msg41373.html#msg41373
Have fun!
J
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For those that are interested, there is a reel that is Squidder 146 size and shares many of the parts. Except it uses plain bearings, not ball bearings. It has the easy take down as well. Do some research :)
Regards,
Scott
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you mean the 501 jigmaster right? but that thing weighs 22 oz or something. it's a brick.
it is also not spectra friendly. and doesn't come in left handed versions.
J
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Whats wrong with the Torium and Tekota by Shimano?
PK
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Newell P220!!!
Man, that looks like just the sweetest reel... 200 yards of 20lb test, 5:1 gears, no level wind, Jigmaster drag.... and left handed models are available, John.
No easy takedown screw, but I can live with that.
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Newell doesn't get a whole lotta love up here but like I said, mine has been beat to hell and still performs well with little maintenance. Plus they are light.
My only gripe with the squidder is the backreel function that turns it into a knucklebuster...I've accidentally hit mine a few times at the wrong moment...not pretty. If I remember correctly Penn just swapped out to narrow spools/frames to increase casting range on the 500. I'm not sure how big that niche is considering the number of other options on the market and kits available to change a standard 500 into a 501. They're not available in left handed versions because well.......people should learn how to reel the right way :smt003
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Where's the love for the Cardiff 201A - I've still got mine and it works. It's very light and the thumb bar is convienantly placed. Great for jigging. Did everyone else's crap out?
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My love is for the Shimano Toruim or the Daiwa Salist at this moment in time.
Ken kickfish
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Whats wrong with the Torium and Tekota by Shimano?
PK
if you are going to hang that bait out there, I will bite, :smt002
well, nothing is "wrong" with them, but they might not be optimal for retro-minded kayakers
who want
cheap
lightweight
corrosion resistant
able to be fixed if broken
retro-cool.
they are
1. expensive.
2. sort of on the heavy side.
3. they have many bearings to corrode.
4. shimano does not supply parts for old reels.
5. c'mon, :smt004.
J
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Newell P220!!!
Man, that looks like just the sweetest reel... 200 yards of 20lb test, 5:1 gears, no level wind, Jigmaster drag.... and left handed models are available, John.
No easy takedown screw, but I can live with that.
yeah, that is my choice too. I recently got hold of 3 used left handed newells, 2 235's and a 338.
for some reason I can rationalize 3 used reels that I don't need but not 1 new one that I don't need, :smt005.
but I want a 220, and since the parts to convert the 235 to a 220 would cost the same as a used reel
I am buying a used right handed 220 and swapping the spool, bars and baseplate.
then I will sell the right handed 235 that is left over (or that is the plan, anyways).
But maybe it's just an excuse to take some reels apart and frankenstein them? :smt044.
however the newell is not theoretically perfect for the nor-cal inshore kayak fisherman.
look on this site for alan tani's rebuild of a 220. a lot of screws and screw holes to corrode.
so it looks like you have to take it out of the box, take it apart, grease a lot of it, replace the
drag with a jigmaster ht-100 greased carbon fiber drag.
The stock drag is not water-invasion friendly, nor can you grease it.
If you pick one up and use it, it feels very 20th century, not like a progear or avet which feel
distinctly 21st century.
of course this is why I like it and foofy guys like bill and mooch ( :smt003 ) prefer the avet.
But it is my favorite for a kayak reel one step above an Ambassadeur.
which of course I don't even need since it's not like I'm catching fish that I can't pull up with
an ambassadeur, :smt010.
eric, if you want a new reel the reel that chuckE likes a lot seems a good choice,
the daiwa sealine 20 high speed version. (a little heavy and no left hand available tho).
John
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Greasing it up and replacing the drag sounds like it wouldn't take long, then you have a reel that is good to go, light enough for plugging, and strong enough for anything we're likely to hook up on the west coast.
Besides, if you're anything like me first thing you do is take your new purchase apart... am I right?
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not like a progear or avet which feel distinctly 21st century.
Try an old school Progear like a 255 ... Basically 501 guts, win a 1 piece aluminum frame. Or a 251 ... 500 guts ...
I have a few of these and am looking to pick up more. Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I finished off my collection.
BTW, what happened to Progear? Are they out of business?
-Allen
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not like a progear or avet which feel distinctly 21st century.
Try an old school Progear like a 255 ... Basically 501 guts, win a 1 piece aluminum frame. Or a 251 ... 500 guts ...
I have a few of these and am looking to pick up more. Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have said anything until I finished off my collection.
BTW, what happened to Progear? Are they out of business?
-Allen
supposedly they are coming back. But that high end market seems pretty glutted. penn made a good comeback with the torq.
I'm sticking to hotrodded ambassadeurs, newell, and shimano spinning reels so the progear ebay market is yours to corner allen, :smt002
John
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I have a Newell P229F on the way. My first new ocean reel. Seems pricey, but I fully expect to be using it the rest of my life.
Thanks for all the advice and comments. I learned a lot in this thread!
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So many toys- so little money........ :smt003
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John,
Retro? are you still using a Macintosh Apple? I don't think so. I have had newell and Abu. I just think there is something better. I just retired reels I don't used anymore. Sorry, Alan T. Becuase if I where to get the "fish of a lifetime"...I don't want a reel...that may not do the JOB.
Ken kickfish
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Maybe better for a powerboat. but I think simpler is better for a kayak. after the first two spool bearings the rest are diminishing returns.
maybe if they make the bearing races from titanium and the balls from "ceramic" so they never rust.
the newer reels could fail on that fish of a lifetime because they are over-engineered and susceptible to failure.
but hey, use what makes you happy Ken, it's all for fun after all.
J
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Ken, no sense in having a reel graveyard....you can float those old newells and abu's right over to my pad and I'll resurect and return them to the glorious fish killing machines they were designed to be :smt003
I ain't gonna lie, if I had the expendable cash flow and fished long range often I'd probably own a quiver of custom sticks paired to custom annodized and cnc'd reels. Not really the lifestyle I live.........yet, so I go with whatever will get the job done or is fun to use.
John I'm down with the retro movement. Any f*****g monkey can go down to fishermen's wharehouse and blow a month's salary on new rods and reels but style cannot be bought :icon_r&r:
:smt003
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Can I get an AMEN?
-Allen
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Just saying ...there are better reels..now a days. Might be just the gears or the drags or even just the handle. But, how much do you spend on just fishing? It would be a lot cheaper to go to the fish market. Then to do what we do....luckly I don't female ear to listen toooooooooooo.
Ken kickfish
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Eric, I took apart an older right handed C-series 220 and a newer left handed 235 to swap their handedness.
It looks like the only difference between a left handed newell and right handed newell is the gears.
on an abu the left handed ones have a lot more things mirror reversed like the star drag.
so a left handed newell is a bit like playing a stratocaster upside down. well, now I know, you know? :smt002
while doing it I see the new Newell bearings are open, not shielded. This is probably better overall as they are more easily cleaned that way.
If you want those bearings to really last, pack them with grease. this does affect free spool time, but that does not correlate to casting distance as much as some people believe due to the fact free spool time measures unloaded performance while when you are casting you are casting weight and putting some load on those ball bearings. same goes for if you are going to ride your skateboard in the rain, :smt004.
Best,
J
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John,
Just got a Daiwa Saltiga 30 off of E-bay New in Box. $300. Can you say TUNA.
Ken kickfish
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If you want those bearings to really last, pack them with grease.
Thanks, will do. It should be waiting for me at home as I type.