NorCal Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing Zone => Kayak Fly Fishing => Topic started by: Odonata on July 31, 2019, 07:40:51 PM
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This isn't kayak-related, per se, but I've seen quite a few posts from folks who fish from the beach, so here goes ...
I mostly fly fish in freshwater these days, but when I fish the beach I've been using a steelhead spinning rod and a Carolina rig. This way I can switch between gulp sandworms, flies and perch grubs just by switching out the leader.
A few years ago I experimented with fly fishing the surf, but kind of gave up on the idea after a while. Now I'm starting to think about two-handed rods : I have a Ross 11'3" 6wt switch rod (probably more like an 8wt in single handed ratings as I understand it). It seems like it will throw sinking line out there without as much stress on my joints as double-hauling an 8wt 9' single-handed rod with shooting heads and such. Seems to do well with a 6wt Rio Outbound Short/S6 (240 grains) if I'm doing a two-handed overhead cast. I think the rod itself is rated for much higher grain weight (330-360), but probably more for spey-style casts (not sure that would really work in the surf conditions we commonly encounter in central / northern CA. Or more likely I just have no clue what I am doing ...)
Anyway, has anyone used the Beulah Surf or Echo Boost Beach two-handed rods for this kind of thing ? I have a bunch of hardware in my spine, so I'm wary of buying too much rod...
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I had a co-worker once who fished those Spey-types
I think he fished more for the challenge
Maybe that’s what we’re after sometime though
Plenny room on most beaches to try
Let us know how it goes
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I don't know anything about the Echo Boost Beach but I had an Echo Boost Salt single-handed 6wt for a while. They're very fast (read: stiff) rods, and it was too much for my shoulder. Great rod, 'though.
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All the guys I know and myself use regular one handed rods for the surf. A 7 weight if I am surf perch fishing, but a 9 if I know stripers are in the area.
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I decided to get myself a 7wt Echo Boost Beach rod, 12'1". At first I tried Echo's recommendations on lines, and went with an Airflo Beach / Surf in 7wt, the fastest sinking one they had. It worked alright at the casting pool, but the one I got seemed to have a problem with the coating. Waiting on a replacement.
In the meantime I called up Lost Coast Outfiitters after noticing they sell an outfit based on this rod. They feel Echo's 265 grain recommendation is way too light; instead at least a 9 or 10wt Rio Outbound Short shooting head. I decided to try a 9wt (375 grains) and OPST Lazar running line (40#). Wow, does that thing fly.
Still working on my timing; I'm used to single-handed trout rods with floating lines. Will have to see if I can actually catch anything in the surf with this thing... the few times I tried a single hand rod in the surf all the double hauling got pretty exhausting. But again, it's not like I know what I am doing.
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Like ScottV's friends I've always used a 9'0" single handed 7wt for surf fishing and never had to do a double-haul to send a fly out into the wind. But I'm fishing for surf perch using itty-bitty flies so a long, strong cast isn't necessary.
Good luck with your new rod and let us know how it works out for you, please?
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I changed to a 6 wt. switch rod for the surf. Never went back to the single handler. Your shoulder will love you. And you’ll shoot it farther with less effort.
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Yes, I think it's debatable whether or not surf perch fishing really requires a lot of distance. Be that as it may, I got out this morning : super foggy, high tide around 8am-sh, not much wind, surf was a bit more than I expected, but not too bad. Typical sandy northern Monterey Bay. Beach was practically deserted, and that was a good thing because I was getting used to the new running line, working on my line (mis)management, and so on. It is tough to work on all that and also pay attention to not snagging dogs or runners with my back cast :)
I like how the rod casts with the 9wt head. I think it does pretty well with my usual perch flies, which have bead chain eyes, or small brass eyes for a bit more weight. I think the rod loaded well with slightly heavier flies, so I might try the shop's recommendation of a 10wt head later.
The old-timers I talked to a few years ago mentioned the importance of staying in contact with the fly. I found that difficult until I started tucking the rod under my arm immediately after completing the cast and using both hands to strip in line. That technique made it easier to detect strikes.
I think the snap swivels I typically use for surf fishing with a spinning rod are a little fragile for fly fishing. Have to either use a heavier duty snap or actually start tying knots in my leader to attach the fly :) Lost a couple flies that way, but I can tie more.
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And it all comes together. For the snap swivels I'd go for Duo-lock snaps or the cross-lok snaps and quick connect clips but you need to find small enough ones that will fit the eye of the hook. If you can't find them small enough just go with the non-slip loop knot(Rapala knot).
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Thanks. Realistically I only use a few different fly patterns, so tying knots shouldn't be such a big deal, at least in theory. My close-up vision has really gone to hell over the last few years and I've upped most of my glasses to progressives. Except of course for my surf fishing glasses ... photochromic, old prescription, and actually made of glass, by an optometrist who closed up shop ten or fifteen years ago. I need to just bite the bullet, find a new source and get new lenses for those puppies.
In the meantime, I ran across these new Rio Fly-Clips. I actually ordered a ten-pack in size 3 a while back and entirely forgot about them until just now, but I think they might work, just playing around with them.
Now that I've uh, stumbled upon a two handed overhead casting technique that works for me, I tried out my old 6wt switch rod with a 330 grain 8wt sinking head and the new running line in the casting pool. Whoa, that thing flies pretty good. I guess the magic is in the magician, and not the wand, or however the old saying goes. And since it's a switch rod I can also cast it single-handed if for some reason I want to do that too.
Starting to really feel psyched about fly fishing the surf again :)
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All I can say or should say is that all of us are waiting for some more pictures?
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Starting to really feel psyched about fly fishing the surf again :)
YAY!
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A few pics from Sunday morning. No marine layer, so the window was a bit short.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48778278483_677931b8a6_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48778638526_32352bfaa4_b.jpg)
I think high tide was 6:30am-ish. I was gone by 8:30.
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Nice perch!!! On the fly rod too. Awesome!
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Glad to hear a double-hand rod has worked for you. I can heat up my shoulder these days making too many casts into the wind, too. There's hope for me...
But the important question is: what are these magical flies you're using to nab perch? :smt002
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Thanks guys. This particular fly is nothing special. Patterned roughly after an orange Gotcha -- #8 or 6 saltwater hook (barb crushed), fluorescent orange thread, orange rubber or silicone legs, orange Krystal flash, bead chain eyes.
Another one I like is the Clouser darter in perch color (it is probably the orange that works). A bit heavier, but sometimes that's good, I think.
Weirdly, I bought some orange and rainbow Czech nymphs in size 8 a while back and those work too sometimes. Think big fat scuds.
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How do you load your two-handed rod on the surf? Do you load it the same way you would when casting in a river, or do you false-cast? The last time I tried my switch rod on the surf it was a circus with line running all around me, and I couldn't load the rod up due to the moving waves just wouldn't give me enough time to load up. I now use a basket and a 9ft 8wt because I don't know how to deal with a two-hander in the surf.
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I don't know if I'm doing the two-handed rod thing "right". I have no idea what you do on a river. I just overhead cast, though usually a bit off to the side -- a little less risk of taking a hook to the back of the head that way :) First I get the sinking head out of the water, either by roll casting or false casting. Then I usually do another false cast to get a feel for the rod loading, and finally shoot. I try to do the push-pull thing with the two grips, too. There is kind of a lot going on, and I still find myself struggling with it sometimes. Have to breath, feel the force flowing through you (where is that Yoda emoticon)
I'm not very good at explaining these things, and I'm sure I'm either leaving something out, or misrepresenting my level of (in)competence. Believe me, I can still create a good circus myself :)
Yes, the stripping basket is pretty much essential, or else you end up with line going all over the place. I bought one of those Linekurv things and drilled some drain holes in it. I think the Orvis ones are similar.
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What you do sounds exactly like what I do with my single handed rod. I don't know what benefit you get out of fishing the 2-handed rod the way you use it, but if it works for you, that's all that matters. :smt003
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No idea what you do, but for me no double haul required to get distance; less effort and less pain afterwards.
But hey if you like how you surf fish don't fix it if it ain't broke :)
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What I originally tried to say was, I tried my switch rod in the surf and made a mess because when I do a Snap T, many times the line get washed up and wrapped around my legs. After that experience I went back to a single hand 9ft with sinktip and shooting line. All I have to do is make a roll cast to load up, then one back and forward cast to shoot out the line. I don't normally need to false cast unless I'm trying time the wave.
I actually haven't seen people use a two-hander in our norcal beaches. Hope I run into you next time so I can observe.
ernest
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I think the key thing is to use the two grips to push-pull, but I'm hardly a person to take lessons from. There is a casting pool nearby where I can practice, and some guys from the local fly fishing club who do lessons and so on. They encouraged me to experiment.
I honestly don't know how to do the snap T and other spey casts, but reading about them I don't see how they would work in surf conditions. Again, I hardly know what I'm doing, let alone what you should do :)
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It also occurred to me that you could probably take a lesson from a guide, if you don't have a local fly fishing club. The shop I talked to earlier (see above), Lost Coast Outfitters, seemed to have someone who knew their stuff. I lost track of the name of gent I talked to, but I bet if you call them up they would be able to steer you right.
And if you do, let me know who you talk to, so I can take a lesson from them, too :)
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I think the key thing is to use the two grips to push-pull, but I'm hardly a person to take lessons from. There is a casting pool nearby where I can practice, and some guys from the local fly fishing club who do lessons and so on. They encouraged me to experiment.
I honestly don't know how to do the snap T and other spey casts, but reading about them I don't see how they would work in surf conditions. Again, I hardly know what I'm doing, let alone what you should do :)
Yeah, a spey cast is never going to work in the surf because you don't have a chance to anchor the line. You might try looking for salmon fishing videos made in Scotland. Standing in fast-moving water, they use two-handed rods to make a fast, simple-looking (I've never tried it so I don't know), roll cast (maybe it's a poke cast) and they can shoot line a surprisingly long distance with what looks like very little effort.
I'm encouraged by your experience now that my shoulder starts to cry and carry-on about halfway through a day's fishing. Thanks for being the guinea pig!
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I thought I'd share this topic/ forum directly related to this one (see below). If any one wants to shoot some line let me know we can.try for a hook up. Weekend best for me.
Currently single handed but itching for a double.......
Yea.... and it catches crabs to if you retrieve slow enough
J. Ice
https://www.billkiene.com/forums/showthread.php?43028-Overhead-Two-handed-fly-casting-for-Stripers-near-Monterey-and-Santa-Cruz
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I saw that post, too. Quite interesting. Yes, I've caught sand crabs, too :)
I can't believe I didn't see this video earlier. I'm going to try some of his tips -
https://vimeo.com/189858723
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Ha! Just got one.! As posted in the perch topic line.
He he.... just stoked now time and a line are all that's needed.