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Topic: Downrigger on a Stealth  (Read 4897 times)

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Waly

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I just got a 460 a month ago and have been setting it up for fishing. I mostly target rockfish and have never been salmon fishing, but I want to give a try this year.

Has anyone mounted a downrigger onto their Stealth? If so, have you mounted it onto the side of the kayak somehow? I don't know much about downriggers and salmon fishing in general, but I know I need a downrigger.

Thanks.


Sea-bree

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I’m interested to see what other stealth owners have to say about this. I do not own a stealth, but before I permanently fixed DR mounts to my Outback, I ran a DIY version that slipped into one of the flush mount rod holders. The 460 has 4 flush mounts rod holders positioned behind the seat if I’m not mistaken. Not ideal for operating the DIY version I’m posting a link to, but potentially worth considering???

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=39695.msg430059#msg430059

If you search downrigger, you’ll get a ton of hits, which is worth the time to read…a few highlights
1. The DR can shift the center of gravity due to the weight of the DR/mounts, the DR weight, and the drag of the line and weight when deployed. If you go with a DR system, do your best to set it up so that the line and weight are as close to the hull as possible when deployed, but not close enough to to rub. Some have shortened the boom on the DR to achieve this. I think I would also strive to have the Downrigger and mount be as far inboard as is practical and comfortable.

2. Read up on line scope. The amount of weight and speed trolled can impact the depth achieved. Some put way more emphasis on this than others, but a vertical DR line is preferable to a steep angle for the purposes of accurate depths fished. I run 8 lbs of lead, but have gone as light as 2 lbs. 4 lbs seems to be the most frequently used weight for kayaks.

3. Braid is quieter than wire. I swapped my wire out for 120 lb specta braid. Power pro makes a DR specific braid

4. Play with different releases, I prefer and recommend adjustable releases which can be tuned to fish different applications. You would want a fairly lite release for Kokanee, and a much tighter release for ocean salmon for example.

PMPete has a few posts with a ton of good information on different models, customization, and mounts.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=76294.msg871118#msg871118


My guess is those who fish Stealth kayaks will probably tell you a shuttle hawk or pink lady diving board or running lead balls on releases would be preferable to a DR mounted on such a sleek paddle kayak.

Take your time and check out all of the different options and considerations so you can keep that stealth sexy and without unnecessary drilling
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 02:57:16 PM by Sea-bree »
With gratitude and humility


Eddie

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You don’t need a downrigger, ask KPD…fish are generally 40-65 ft down in the areas I fish.  Planers, divers, sinker releases all work to keep your offering in the zone, as light as a stealth is I could imagine the drag on one side where your full system is, I could be wrong though…go stealth! :smt006
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 02:49:11 PM by Eddie »
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
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Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


ThreemoneyJ

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I would skip a DR on the stealth. Your 460 is only around 26 inches wide. Hanging a DR ball off the side will make a noticeable difference IMO. Not saying it can’t be done, but I think that the added complexity wouldn’t be worth it along with the added drag and complexity to your paddle stroke.

That being said if I were going to try it I would get an electric downrigger and mount it behind where you sit, maybe on some sort of removable platform that could rest in the rod holders. You could then have your rod mounted in front of you and clipped in so you could see the rod tip. Or maybe an electric reel on a shortened rod or kite rod just stuck into one of the rod holder.

Or maybe just use a deep six. IDK I’ve never caught a salmon from my stealth.

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Eddie

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I would skip a DR on the stealth. Your 460 is only around 26 inches wide. Hanging a DR ball off the side will make a noticeable difference IMO. Not saying it can’t be done, but I think that the added complexity wouldn’t be worth it along with the added drag and complexity to your paddle stroke.

That being said if I were going to try it I would get an electric downrigger and mount it behind where you sit, maybe on some sort of removable platform that could rest in the rod holders. You could then have your rod mounted in front of you and clipped in so you could see the rod tip. Or maybe an electric reel on a shortened rod or kite rod just stuck into one of the rod holder.

Or maybe just use a deep six. IDK I’ve never caught a salmon from my stealth.
You’ll get one or many on your stealth I hope, mine last year, was HMB on DD6…I’m mooching as often as I can this year… :smt006
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
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Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


Waly

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Thanks Sea-bree, Eddie and ThreemoneyJ for your replies. The reason I bought a Stealth kayak was so I could paddle, which really enjoy. So I am hesitant to load it up with a ton of gear unless it is necessary. Maybe for 2022 I will research planers and divers and use those for now.  If I feel the need for a downrigger, I will research how to install one later.

I have two follow-up questions for you now:

1) Is there a maximum and minimum depth that you can reach with a planer or diver? Do you control the depth via the speed of the boat?
2) As you know, the Stealth has two trolling rod holders, which I would like to use. Do I really need to install a rod holder onto the fish hatch lid so I can see the rod tip?


Eddie

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Thanks Sea-bree, Eddie and ThreemoneyJ for your replies. The reason I bought a Stealth kayak was so I could paddle, which really enjoy. So I am hesitant to load it up with a ton of gear unless it is necessary. Maybe for 2022 I will research planers and divers and use those for now.  If I feel the need for a downrigger, I will research how to install one later.

I have two follow-up questions for you now:

1) Is there a maximum and minimum depth that you can reach with a planer or diver? Do you control the depth via the speed of the boat?
2) As you know, the Stealth has two trolling rod holders, which I would like to use. Do I really need to install a rod holder onto the fish hatch lid so I can see the rod tip?
The depth of the diver is controlled by your pulls and the scope of your angle,  I eyeball a 45’ angle and half the amount of pulls then add a few just for fun, due to speed of kayak.  It gets technical but fish find your stuff.  For me with a 7oz diver which is heavy I generally pull 42 to 50 pulls and it seems to find em’ if it’s my turn.  Not sure this makes sense.  If I’m using a 5oz dd6 with the big face I’m pulling 48, these are not hard numbers but I know by my angle that my bait is in the zone…
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 03:24:02 PM by Eddie »
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
John 21:3

Stealth Pro Fisha 475
Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


Waly

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Ok, thanks Eddie, that does make sense. Sounds totally do-able. Now I just gotta make it happen. I appreciate the feedback.


ThreemoneyJ

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There are charts floating around out there that will help you figure it out. Here’s one I keep handy for freshwater trolling using tadpoles. Same idea. The more line out is deeper. Slower speed is deeper. Thinner line with less drag is deeper. Heavier weight is deeper. Bigger dive lip is deeper. You get the idea.

If you have a zone you want to try for (most salmon from the kayak I have caught were from 40-60 feet) you could go around an area that depth with a smooth bottom and let out line till you hit bottom. Then you know how far back at what speed is that depth.

Don’t get too wrapped up on precise depth. Fish have tails and can swim up and down. Just be in the ballpark and you’ll be ok.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 04:00:43 PM by ThreemoneyJ »
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pmmpete

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I posted some suggestions for how to set up a pedal kayak for downrigger trolling at https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=12575.msg138905#msg138905. Many of the suggestions in that post will apply to installing a downrigger on a Stealth or other paddle kayak.  However, it's harder to set up a paddle kayak for downrigger trolling because you need to install your downrigger, rod holder, and fish finder where they won't interfere with a normal paddle stroke, which is tricky because your paddle sweeps over a large portion of your kayak with every paddle stroke.  But I did a lot of downrigger trolling from a 13' Ocean Kayak Trident before I bought a pedal kayak.

Downriggers have the following advantages over divers and dropper weights: (a) When downrigger trolling, your fish finder will show you exactly where your downrigger weight, and thus your lure, is located with respect to the bottom and suspended fish.  When using a diver or a dropper weight at anything other than shallow depths, you will have only a vague idea of how deep your lure is running.  (b) When downrigger trolling, you can quickly and accurately change the depth that your lure is running.  For example, If you are downrigger trolling at 50 feet down, and you see a school of fish at 80 feet down, you can quickly drop your downrigger weight down to 80 feet and then maneuver your kayak in figure 8 or cloverleaf patterns to run your lure repeatedly right through the school of fish,with the help of the GPS features of your fish finder. (c) You can run your lure deeper with a downrigger than you can with a diver or a dropper weight.  I frequently downrigger troll down to about 120 feet from my Hobie Revolution, using a Cannon Lake-Troll downrigger and an 8 pound weight. (d) If you get a strike when downrigger trolling, you can pop your fishing line out of your downrigger release and play in the fish without any interference from a diver or a dropper weight.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 07:59:10 PM by pmmpete »


Waly

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I posted some suggestions for how to set up a pedal kayak for downrigger trolling at https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=12575.msg138905#msg138905. Many of the suggestions in that post will apply to installing a downrigger on a Stealth or other paddle kayak.  However, it's harder to set up a paddle kayak for downrigger trolling because you need to install your downrigger, rod holder, and fish finder where they won't interfere with a normal paddle stroke, which is tricky because your paddle sweeps over a large portion of your kayak with every paddle stroke.  But I did a lot of downrigger trolling from a 13' Ocean Kayak Trident before I bought a pedal kayak.

Downriggers have the following advantages over divers and dropper weights: (a) When downrigger trolling, your fish finder will show you exactly where your downrigger weight, and thus your lure, is located with respect to the bottom and suspended fish.  When using a diver or a dropper weight at anything other than shallow depths, you will have only a vague idea of how deep your lure is running.  (b) When downrigger trolling, you can quickly and accurately change the depth that your lure is running.  For example, If you are downrigger trolling at 50 feet down, and you see a school of fish at 80 feet down, you can quickly drop your downrigger weight down to 80 feet and then maneuver your kayak in figure 8 or cloverleaf patterns to run your lure repeatedly right through the school of fish,with the help of the GPS features of your fish finder. (c) You can run your lure deeper with a downrigger than you can with a diver or a dropper weight.  I frequently downrigger troll down to about 120 feet from my Hobie Revolution, using a Cannon Lake-Troll downrigger and am8 pound weight. (d) If you get a strike when downrigger trolling, you can pop your fishing line out of your downrigger release and play in the fish without any interference from a diver or a dropper weight.

Awesome, thanks for that explanation. What you said about managing a paddle stroke along with a rod holder, fish finder and other gear makes sense to me. I think I will live without a downrigger for a while and see how it goes. If I decide I do want to install one, I have a good place to start.


piscellaneous

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I had more (of my very limited) success with salmon paddling with 8 oz bananas than with the DD6. I found that the planer really pulled me to one side and I got more tangles, especially if I changed direction. I caught a few just putting the flasher right behind the banana sinker and then a leader to the fbr. It is about 2' from just above the reel to just below the first eyelet so I would do 20-60 pulls, depending how deep the water and what the word was as far as how deep the fish were. Paddle really hard to get some speed up, pull a half a dozen or a dozen times, repeat, repeat. I could keep up 2.5kts+ pretty easily after I got all the line out. I hit the reefs at LM and HMB a couple times so I know I was down a ways.


Eddie

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I had more (of my very limited) success with salmon paddling with 8 oz bananas than with the DD6. I found that the planer really pulled me to one side and I got more tangles, especially if I changed direction. I caught a few just putting the flasher right behind the banana sinker and then a leader to the fbr. It is about 2' from just above the reel to just below the first eyelet so I would do 20-60 pulls, depending how deep the water and what the word was as far as how deep the fish were. Paddle really hard to get some speed up, pull a half a dozen or a dozen times, repeat, repeat. I could keep up 2.5kts+ pretty easily after I got all the line out. I hit the reefs at LM and HMB a couple times so I know I was down a ways.
Yes!  Dat’s da way, if you want to rest and mooch it works as well…no flasher… :smt006
“I’m going fishing.”  They said, “we will go with you.” 
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Stealth Pro Fisha 475
Jackson Kraken 15
Native Manta Ray 12.5
Werner Cyprus 220cm


SuperFly

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You definitely don't need a downrigger for salmon fishing from a kayak.

This guy on Instagram has a homemade DR on a 525. https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt6jN8clHWk/
I guess you could rig it similarly, but definitely use a thick backing plate, and you may want to trim the DR arm down a bit.

A couple of years ago I found a picture of a double DR mounted in front of an Evo's hatch, so it can be done.

I generally like to use a diver, and did well with one for the last few years on my 500. But Stealths are very sensitive to drag, and I was constantly correcting my heading with the rudder, so I'm switching to a sliding weight for trolling and mooching this year. If they're deeper than 40 feet, I'll mooch.


pmmpete

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I posted some suggestions for how to set up a pedal kayak for downrigger trolling at https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=12575.msg138905#msg138905. Many of the suggestions in that post will apply to installing a downrigger on a Stealth or other paddle kayak.  However, it's harder to set up a paddle kayak for downrigger trolling because you need to install your downrigger, rod holder, and fish finder where they won't interfere with a normal paddle stroke, which is tricky because your paddle sweeps over a large portion of your kayak with every paddle stroke.  But I did a lot of downrigger trolling from a 13' Ocean Kayak Trident before I bought a pedal kayak.

Downriggers have the following advantages over divers and dropper weights: (a) When downrigger trolling, your fish finder will show you exactly where your downrigger weight, and thus your lure, is located with respect to the bottom and suspended fish.  When using a diver or a dropper weight at anything other than shallow depths, you will have only a vague idea of how deep your lure is running.  (b) When downrigger trolling, you can quickly and accurately change the depth that your lure is running.  For example, If you are downrigger trolling at 50 feet down, and you see a school of fish at 80 feet down, you can quickly drop your downrigger weight down to 80 feet and then maneuver your kayak in figure 8 or cloverleaf patterns to run your lure repeatedly right through the school of fish,with the help of the GPS features of your fish finder. (c) You can run your lure deeper with a downrigger than you can with a diver or a dropper weight.  I frequently downrigger troll down to about 120 feet from my Hobie Revolution, using a Cannon Lake-Troll downrigger and am8 pound weight. (d) If you get a strike when downrigger trolling, you can pop your fishing line out of your downrigger release and play in the fish without any interference from a diver or a dropper weight.

Awesome, thanks for that explanation. What you said about managing a paddle stroke along with a rod holder, fish finder and other gear makes sense to me. I think I will live without a downrigger for a while and see how it goes. If I decide I do want to install one, I have a good place to start.
The Scotty Laketroller downrigger is a primitive downrigger which isn't convenient to use, but it's small, so it's a good choice for mounting on a paddle kayak.  I routinely trolled at 75 feet deep with a Laketroller and a four pound weight from my 13' Ocean Kayak Trident.  As you think about places where you can mount a Scotty Laketroller which won't interfere with your paddle stroke, remember that the Laketroller doesn't need to be mounted on top of the gunwale of a kayak with its cable reel horizontal.  It can be mounted on the side of a kayak with the cable reel at a 45 degree or greater angle, and with the pulley arm pointing straight backwards or forwards along the side of the kayak.  If you mount a Laketroller partway down the side of your kayak next to your thigh, with the boom pointing towards the stern and the pulley near your hip, the downrigger will be convenient to operate and will be completely out of the way of your paddle stroke. A Scotty non-locking flush mount would be a good way to mount the downrigger. DON'T use a Scotty locking flush mount - they aren't waterproof.

You could also mount a Laketroller on the centerline of your kayak next to or in front of your feet, or in back of your seat, but I don't like downrigger setups which require you to reach way forward, or to twist around and reach backward, in order to crank the downrigger.  You will need to crank your weight up many times during a day of downrigger trolling, and if the downrigger is located where it is inconvenient and uncomfortable to crank, you will quickly become unhappy with the downrigger setup.


 

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