AOTY point system

its all personal perspective. halibut are easier in my opinion

+1 on the perspective. I know when I played AOTY, I put in a lot of time trying to catch good-sized panfish. It was really tough! Mostly because panfish aren't something I usually target. But I learned a lot, and that's part of the goal of AOTY: to coax anglers to target fish that they may not typically target.

In contrast, brown trout and salmon were easy for me. They were species I was already familiar with. Slab crappie, not so much.

So, I’ve brought this up before, but has the committee thought about re-balancing the freshwater species to match the salt water? Once the flatfish was added, we now had 9 SW to 8 FW and the 4 anadromous. I’m not sure what it would be, I always liked going after both SM and spotted bass, but I guess it was too hard for the committee to tell them apart, so they merged them?  I’ve fished other online tournaments that separate crappie and have a sperate panfish category. That’s fun hunting larger blue gills and sac perch. I think the biggest non crappie submitted was Chris’s 14.75” sac perch, so set the PPI at 13.25 where a trophy catch would be 15” for 198.75 points? Or make it real tough at 13 points per inch and you would need a tank BG/SP at 15.25/15.50” for trophy points? Those would be a better quality fish than a 17” crappie.

For those living out east like me or the valley folks who may be only get to the north coast a couple times a year, at least having an equal number of FW species can give us a better chance of being competitive. Anyway, just a suggestion. And I want a reason to hunt the lazy fighting sac perch!   

For fun I totaled up the highest points per species on AOTY's list.  There are for sure some species that are harder to catch such as WSB vs a panfish, and history shows that very few wsb have been caught over the years (for aoty).  WSB all time high points = 232 and panfish = 198 There is a balance to that comparison though, where it takes time and dedication to catch either species, but there are more opportunities to catch a panfish overall throughout the state.  The all time highest point fish looks to be sturgeon at 247.5 points.  Both WSB and Sturgeon are very hard to catch, so if you did catch them, it seems they are worth more for the right reason, they are way harder to catch vs. panfish. 

Also a good time to bring up the Crappie Haters Club, for those that chased them far too many times for nothing 

So, I’ve brought this up before, but has the committee thought about re-balancing the freshwater species to match the salt water? Once the flatfish was added, we now had 9 SW to 8 FW and the 4 anadromous. I’m not sure what it would be, I always liked going after both SM and spotted bass, but I guess it was too hard for the committee to tell them apart, so they merged them?  I’ve fished other online tournaments that separate crappie and have a sperate panfish category. That’s fun hunting larger blue gills and sac perch. I think the biggest non crappie submitted was Chris’s 14.75” sac perch, so set the PPI at 13.25 where a trophy catch would be 15” for 198.75 points? Or make it real tough at 13 points per inch and you would need a tank BG/SP at 15.25/15.50” for trophy points? Those would be a better quality fish than a 17” crappie.

For those living out east like me or the valley folks who may be only get to the north coast a couple times a year, at least having an equal number of FW species can give us a better chance of being competitive. Anyway, just a suggestion. And I want a reason to hunt the lazy fighting sac perch!   

Hey Scott! The committee talked over these subjects 6-7 years back. Combining the smallmouth and spotted bass categories wasn't something we really wanted to do, but we were kinda forced into it. Lake Berryessa kicked out a lot of hybrids, so anglers were submitting fish as smallmouth bass when they looked more like hybrids. It was a great strategy, because you'd get the length of a spotted bass but the points of a smallmouth. But it ultimately wasn't fair to the other anglers, and put the committee in the position of trying to put the hybrids in either the smallmouth or spotted bass category (it was a no-win situation). Seems like we don't get many hybrids entered into AOTY nowadays, so maybe we could separate the two species into their own respective categories again?

The panfish/non crappie category was also discussed. It never really got much traction among the committee, but maybe things would be different now. Give those Sac perch a whirl! They're incredibly different to target compared to the other panfish, mostly because they don't school and are pretty timid.

For fun I totaled up the highest points per species on AOTY's list.  There are for sure some species that are harder to catch such as WSB vs a panfish, and history shows that very few wsb have been caught over the years (for aoty).  WSB all time high points = 232 and panfish = 198 There is a balance to that comparison though, where it takes time and dedication to catch either species, but there are more opportunities to catch a panfish overall throughout the state.  The all time highest point fish looks to be sturgeon at 247.5 points.  Both WSB and Sturgeon are very hard to catch, so if you did catch them, it seems they are worth more for the right reason, they are way harder to catch vs. panfish. 

Super interesting Al, could you add a column for the length of a 200pt fish? That might help drive the conversation to see the targets for a "trophy fish". I think most are pretty accurate after being refined over so many years.

I did a math modeling competition in school and its super interesting to see the similarities between creating a model and this game (which is basically a model).

So, I’ve brought this up before, but has the committee thought about re-balancing the freshwater species to match the salt water? Once the flatfish was added, we now had 9 SW to 8 FW and the 4 anadromous. I’m not sure what it would be, I always liked going after both SM and spotted bass, but I guess it was too hard for the committee to tell them apart, so they merged them?  I’ve fished other online tournaments that separate crappie and have a sperate panfish category. That’s fun hunting larger blue gills and sac perch. I think the biggest non crappie submitted was Chris’s 14.75” sac perch, so set the PPI at 13.25 where a trophy catch would be 15” for 198.75 points? Or make it real tough at 13 points per inch and you would need a tank BG/SP at 15.25/15.50” for trophy points? Those would be a better quality fish than a 17” crappie.

For those living out east like me or the valley folks who may be only get to the north coast a couple times a year, at least having an equal number of FW species can give us a better chance of being competitive. Anyway, just a suggestion. And I want a reason to hunt the lazy fighting sac perch!   

Hey Scott! The committee talked over these subjects 6-7 years back. Combining the smallmouth and spotted bass categories wasn't something we really wanted to do, but we were kinda forced into it. Lake Berryessa kicked out a lot of hybrids, so anglers were submitting fish as smallmouth bass when they looked more like hybrids. It was a great strategy, because you'd get the length of a spotted bass but the points of a smallmouth. But it ultimately wasn't fair to the other anglers, and put the committee in the position of trying to put the hybrids in either the smallmouth or spotted bass category (it was a no-win situation). Seems like we don't get many hybrids entered into AOTY nowadays, so maybe we could separate the two species into their own respective categories again?

The panfish/non crappie category was also discussed. It never really got much traction among the committee, but maybe things would be different now. Give those Sac perch a whirl! They're incredibly different to target compared to the other panfish, mostly because they don't school and are pretty timid.

Chris I still haven't been able to find a sac perch on your lake! You would think by now I would just luck into one.     Almanor has never given me much love, but everyone around me kills it! Cursed!

Super interesting Al, could you add a column for the length of a 200pt fish? That might help drive the conversation to see the targets for a "trophy fish". I think most are pretty accurate after being refined over so many years.

Here you go!

I do like the idea of separating crappie from other panfish, since a 12" crappie is no big deal but a 12" bluegill is huge. Sac Perch also get big though, so not sure how that fits in. And that would help balance fresh and salt categories.
When comparing the number and size of 200 pt fish, what that exercise misses is the number and size (and ease of catching) of 150 pt fish, which are what you need in bulk to win.
So even though no Kokanee entered have hit 200 points, 150 pt (14") Kokanee and 150 pt crappie are very common and become easy points in my opinion.

Maybe that's just part of the strategy, get low hanging fruit.

Thanks Al for doing the work I was too lazy to do!

Joe
Sounds like you need to Head to Clear Lake and catch some Crappies!

Scotty

AL that's some awesome data - thanks for doing that!

hey, any chance you could do that with yearly top mean? not sure if you have it automated or not.  But if you took the last 10 years, and averaged the biggest for each year, would be interesting to see, though I expect it would normalize out similar to what you already tallied up.

i am a Crappie hater, never caught one, not even while we lived in Houston.  But I'm now re-focusing my efforts, I'll be searching out good Crappie lakes and going after them hard! not even joking.

lates,
Brian.

AL that's some awesome data - thanks for doing that!

hey, any chance you could do that with yearly top mean? not sure if you have it automated or not.  But if you took the last 10 years, and averaged the biggest for each year, would be interesting to see, though I expect it would normalize out similar to what you already tallied up.

i am a Crappie hater, never caught one, not even while we lived in Houston.  But I'm now re-focusing my efforts, I'll be searching out good Crappie lakes and going after them hard! not even joking.

lates,
Brian.

I’m not computer savvy, but could manually figure something out.

A quick search for crappie in the last 10 years show 36 entered that were over 14.5 inches.

15 or greater inches equals 19.

Halibut 30 or larger equals 75

35 or larger equals 27

37 or larger equals 19

When comparing the number and size of 200 pt fish, what that exercise misses is the number and size (and ease of catching) of 150 pt fish, which are what you need in bulk to win.
So even though no Kokanee entered have hit 200 points, 150 pt (14") Kokanee and 150 pt crappie are very common and become easy points in my opinion.

Maybe that's just part of the strategy, get low hanging fruit.

It depends on the competition in a given year. Similar to a typical tournament, sometimes you only need one or two 200 point "kicker" fish and a bunch of 150-160 pointers to win. Other years, that strategy isn't going to cut it. Looking back through the archives, you'll see that some years were fiercely competitive.

If you want to win AOTY, you need to strategize early, and be willing to adjust the strategy as the year progresses. Many of the winners plan out an entire year's fishing starting in January. You gotta stick with the game plan all year. That may include fishing for kelp greenling during a hot salmon bite, or trying to catch a big perch when the halibut are in. If you really want to compete for 1st place, these are the sacrifices you need to make. You're fishing a 365 day tournament (366 on the leap years  ).

Reluctant crappie hater here. I vow to try for crappie at least twice this year, unless I catch a 15"er first try, then that will do.

Crappie Backstory: When I was maybe 14, the local perc ponds were de-watering and lots of good sized crappies were viewable in shallow water. I had swiped (5 finger discount) a mini-spin (beetle-spin?) lure from K-mart the day before. As I stood next to my neighbor Keith (RIP), who was using the same lure, he was catching a crappie on every cast, while I couldn't get a strike. There was also a section of chain link on the pond bottom for some reason and after about 10 casts (and about 10 fish for Keith) I snagged and broke off my lure. I tied on another and subsequently lost that one too. I was still a Catholic boy at that age and just knew that God was punishing me for my sin. I never shoplifted again.