How big of a wave will flip my Hobie?

It's hard to flip an Outback but a Revolution very easy. My fishing buddy doses off on his Outback all the time and I wouldn't do that on my Revo.

It’s good to be aware of the wind direction. And swell direction. When they cross up it gets really choppy. But on a lake it’s sometimes impossible to fish Stationary . unless ur trolling  but if the wind doesn’t cooperate I’d rather just call it a day and grab some tacos .  Me don’t like waves coming sideways... always point the bow towards swell if I can ...

I'm newer to the Hobie pedal scene. I'm wondering if a wave hits you sideways with the flippers in a down position, do they catch the water and keep the boat from sliding over the water and therefore overturning? Would setting them in a flat position against the hull work in such a situation? With my old Necky Looksha sport, I could just brace into the wave and let the kayak slide.

You nailed it.  When I'm surfing swells, if I leave the flippers down, I can feel them dig in almost like a chine on a powerboat.  Except, it's in the wrong spot and starts to turn the bow and cause a list.  My normal swell surfing procedure is to pedal like mad right until I feel the wave taking me, then the flippers go against the hull.  Much smoother surfing that way.

Thanks for the great discussion.  I’m learning lots of new things. 

Depending on how wide your kayak is you can hang your legs into the water. I’ve done it many time when I felt conditions were too unstable.

+1

Great way to lower your COG in a hurry.

Just what wave will flip a kayak?

It doesn't take much if you get caught leaning the wrong way or don't know how to react. Conversely, if you're skilled enough you can stay on top in some pretty rough conditions. One of the things I learned from a workshop with Liquid Fusion was the little hip-roll you can do when a wave hits you abeam, to prevent it either swamping or flipping you. The usual way you get flipped is a wave lifts up one side of the yak and causes the other side to dig into the water - it's that dig that causes the flip. (This is why you flip after going sideways on a surf landing.) You need to respond by shifting in such a way as to keep that leading edge from dipping into the water. Hard to describe but once you get out and practice, it's a pretty natural thing. Of course you always have to keep your center of gravity over the hull too, which gets harder with steep seas.

So the answer is practice, practice, practice. Go out sometime with a buddy in a spot you know pretty well, when it's rougher than you normally would, and learn how your kayak responds. Generally the easiest to handle is pointing straight into the waves, so do that first. Then try turning around and learn how to handle a following sea. Then get sideways and learn that hip-snap trick to tip your kayak as the waves hit you. Then practice self-rescue in a chop. Then go in and have some well-deserved beer!

I'm newer to the Hobie pedal scene. I'm wondering if a wave hits you sideways with the flippers in a down position, do they catch the water and keep the boat from sliding over the water and therefore overturning? Would setting them in a flat position against the hull work in such a situation? With my old Necky Looksha sport, I could just brace into the wave and let the kayak slide.

You're right, JodDubC, the flippers on a Mirage Drive kayak or the propeller unit on a propeller drive kayak can catch water sideways and flip the kayak instantly.  The rudder can also catch water sideways.  That's why in some situations, such as when heading towards the beach through surf, you are better off pulling up the drive and the rudder and paddling in.

There are many entertaining and educational YouTube videos of pedal drive kayaks getting flipped over.  One common situation is when the kayak is heading towards shore through incoming surf, starts surfing towards shore on a wave, the kayak's nose suddenly veers to the right or the left, and the drive and the rudder catch water sideways and instantly flip the kayak towards shore.  If the kayaker had pulled up the drive before heading in through the surf, the kayak is less likely to veer out of control when surfing, although fishing kayaks aren't designed for surfing as a surf kayak or a whitewater kayak is. Another common situation is when a kayak is sitting parallel to the incoming waves, a breaking wave hits the side of the kayak, the drive and the rudder catch the water, and the breaking wave instantly pushes the kayak over towards shore.  If the kayaker had pulled up the drive and the rudder0, he or she could brace with their paddle into the wave and let the breaking wave push the kayak sideways in towards shore.

If you're pedaling a Mirage Drive kayak, in those kinds of situations you can try to protect yourself from flipping by pushing one pedal all the way forward to bring the fins up against the bottom of the kayak.  But that is a difficult reflex to develop, because when things get crazy, a kayaker's reflex is to brace against the kayak seat by pushing equally with both feet.  Pushing one foot forward feels real awkward and reduces the kayaker's control over the kayak.  And it's hard to bring the fins up against the bottom of the kayak fast enough to prevent a flip.  You're better off to pull up the drive and the rudder and paddle in through the surf.

The reason Mirage Drive kayaks often veer abruptly to the left or right when surfing in towards shore with the drive down is because the fins on a Mirage Drive kayak are located about a third of the way from the bow of the kayak, rather than at the stern of the kayak.  The fins on the back of a surfboard make the surfboard tend to steer straight down the fall line of a wave.  If a Mirage Drive kayak starts surfing on a wave, and the nose starts pointing very much to the left or right of the fall line of the wave, the fins catch water, and the kayak wants to spin 180 degrees so the fins are at the rear of the kayak. But as soon as the kayak gets halfway around, the drive and the rudder catch water sideways, and the kayak instantly flips towards the shore.

Been my experience with my Hobie PA14 to do beach landings backwards.  I pull my drive, lift the rudder and face the wave.  Then ride it in. The forward facing way seems to flip me when the wave overtakes my speed and spins me around.  Once sideways, it's all over.  but for some reason, facing back to the beach, the wave splits easy with the bow and I roll up and over the wave, not pushed into the beach and sideways. 

Far as wind goes on a lake, I have no idea.  I've been on mountain lakes with strong winds, but nothing close to 4'+ wind waves.  I do know out of Bodega at Doran, I've had the best stability running into the wind.  It's slow going, but I feel stable.  But I bet your winds were stronger. 
Glad to hear you survived!!!

Been my experience with my Hobie PA14 to do beach landings backwards.

sounds like a madman mooch man style

-the hobie

Been my experience with my Hobie PA14 to do beach landings backwards.  I pull my drive, lift the rudder and face the wave.  Then ride it in. The forward facing way seems to flip me when the wave overtakes my speed and spins me around.  Once sideways, it's all over.  but for some reason, facing back to the beach, the wave splits easy with the bow and I roll up and over the wave, not pushed into the beach and sideways. 

This is super super interesting to hear.  On powerboats in the surf, we always trained to have the bow into the dominant force (the waves of course).  Notice any of the USCG motor lifeboats in the surf and they're all facing into the waves.  It's no different when setting up for a tow on the high seas, either.  Bow always into the dominant force (wind or swells or waves).  "Bow into the dominant force" is certainly my instinct after so many years of operating boats "in the shit" and I was curious about that tactic on a kayak.  Obviously it doesn't work with all kayaks, but I can totally see how the larger fishing 'yaks could make it work.

Jerry wrote:

Been my experience with my Hobie PA14 to do beach landings backwards.

Not on a Hobie, but an interesting take IMO:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=1949.msg14134#msg14134

IMO people are overly secure on their hobies, not sure hobie recommends them for rough conditions or not but any kayak or boat can roll in the right circumstances

What would worry me more is how easy it is to flip it back over once you’re in the water

First couple of years I did all of my landings in my Outback with rudder up, drive out (and securely strapped down), and paddle only.  But on certain beaches and with short period swells I just can't paddle fast enough to reliably be out of the danger zone as the next wave is hitting.  Last year I started landing with rudder up, drive down, and paddle in hands for steering (and bracing, if required).  I will pedal like crazy to stay on the heels of a wave I am following in, and either bungie or quickly pull the (tethered) drive right as it is getting shallow.

So far so good, but I will probably have a different opinion after I bend my drive mast for the first time.

I also am pretty conservative about surf I do go out in.  I wouldn't go this pedal-down route if I thought there would still be a decent chance of being caught by the next wave.  If that were the case, I would go back to drive out and paddling in, hoping that my bracing would be good enough, but expecting to end up swimming.

I'm newer to the Hobie pedal scene. I'm wondering if a wave hits you sideways with the flippers in a down position, do they catch the water and keep the boat from sliding over the water and therefore overturning? Would setting them in a flat position against the hull work in such a situation? With my old Necky Looksha sport, I could just brace into the wave and let the kayak slide.

I have an AI now, but I piloted an Adventure/Revo 16 for a few years. I never flipped outside the surf zone, and it seems to me that if you work the pedals and rudder together, you can handle anything. Of course, that means one hand and both feet are occupied, so it'll work for trolling, but not much else, fishing-wise. In any case, outside the surf zone, I'd never recommend holding the fins in the up position in rough conditions. Instead, think of the rudder and pedals as a unit that work together to balance you--a little practice and it'll be second nature.