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2017 AOTY/DOTY Entry

Topic: Is it time to reduce Rockfish limits?  (Read 2365 times)

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srdave

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PolePole WOW now that is some reading. I do believe this is too wide spread to focus on Sonoma near shore. Where do they get the info for sport fishing if it form the party boat take thats NG. I have never in 50+ years been asked how many blues and black I have taken and that includes many many party boat trips so who are there asking? My old Divers and Kayaker buddies have never been asked I don't get it please explain?
How many of you other kayaker/Divers have been ask exactly what species of fish you caught and how many of each?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 07:37:25 AM by srdave »


crash

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Wait, you've never been creel checked?


LilRiverMan

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Creel checked ?  I have been checked many times. Typically a couple times a season at a couple different locations. They were not only interested in what I caught, they were interested in what I was targeting - OTW catches by others, I knew of - etc                                     
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srdave

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Yes I have been checked mostly for abalone with spearfishing included they look in the bag or cooler and said ok they rarely counted and NEVER checked what species I or others caught. From a kayak a park range once looked in the cooler said ok and left did not even check count or species. I don't consider that a "creel check" From kayak I cant remember any other time. 20 years ago you would see some kayaks out fishing Sonoma now you cant even get to the beach sometimes there are 100s more kayak fishermen maybe in the 1k more and more every year. You don't think that has an impact on the rockfish count?


matanaska

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A reduced bag to 7 including your 2 lings would be fine with me.

Here up North, they should allow more blacks to be taken cause we have no shortage up here.
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LilRiverMan

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One kayak one fisherman. Lack of a kayak doesn't stop a man from fishing.  They can shore fish or shore dive, or buy a PB and take out three friends for four limits instead of just one limit.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~Henry David Thoreau


crash

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My experience is vastly different wrt creel checks. I get checked probably 10 times a year and know the checkers by name. Species, location, avg depth, number released, descended used, length and weight of all retained fish, etc.

They definitely have sufficient data for a proper statistical sampling and the results are in the PFMC publications.


Life_is_Yak

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Interesting read.  I moved out from the east coast a while back so my experience pertains mostly to east coast but seem to correlate to west coast/ all over the world.   I've listened to old timers talk about fishing in the good old days, and know several that basically don't fish because they don't catch enough to consider it entertaining anymore.  I've seen the photos of huge limits of fish they caught every year for many years.  No when I was on the east coast I didn't live near the coast so trips were planned and people would go one or two times a year.  In that regard you catch your limit and you save it for the remainder of the year.  On the east coast there are times when I'm excited to catch 2 or 3 keepers, other times its easy to limit out, depending on the species. I would base the number of fish I kept on the number of trips I think I'll be able to make.. lets face it fresh fish is just better and I love fishing so even if I catch nothing one day I still love going.  Now that I'm living in Salinas and I'm 6 minutes from the beach I don't see the point in keeping extra fish to freeze unless I just cant fit fishing into my schedule.  So even if the limit was 2 it wouldn't effect me much.

My brother and I have always wondered what would happen if all fishing was banned for 3 years.  Then commercial fishing banned for an additional 5.  We would speculate how the bait fish populations would rise in 1-2 years and how the fish populations would start to rise after 2-3 years.  Dreams of catching so many fish we were tired of casting would fill our heads.  HAHA, I'd hate the ban but its be the only real way to measure our sport and commercial fishing effect on fish population.  If numbers skyrocket enough said.  If they don't we need to look at other environmental factors.

I grew up on Smith Mountain Lake in VA and it kind of follows the same story line where fishing was great back in the day, but now its tough.  I wonder if there was just a tremendous amount of food and cover for the bait fish back when the lake was new.  That in turn means more bait, means more bass/ game fish.  Maybe we need to focus more on our target species food sources than the actual target species.

Either way I'd love to catch so many fish I'm tired of fishing.. Dream big or go home


MF

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PolePole WOW now that is some reading. I do believe this is too wide spread to focus on Sonoma near shore. Where do they get the info for sport fishing if it form the party boat take thats NG. I have never in 50+ years been asked how many blues and black I have taken and that includes many many party boat trips so who are there asking? My old Divers and Kayaker buddies have never been asked I don't get it please explain?
How many of you other kayaker/Divers have been ask exactly what species of fish you caught and how many of each?

I got checked by a state biologist out at OC the first time I ever went fishing. They're out there and counting, and weighing, and measuring, but they can't check everyone.


polepole

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My brother and I have always wondered what would happen if all fishing was banned for 3 years.  Then commercial fishing banned for an additional 5.  We would speculate how the bait fish populations would rise in 1-2 years and how the fish populations would start to rise after 2-3 years.  Dreams of catching so many fish we were tired of casting would fill our heads.  HAHA, I'd hate the ban but its be the only real way to measure our sport and commercial fishing effect on fish population.  If numbers skyrocket enough said.  If they don't we need to look at other environmental factors.

Not true.  We already know how many are caught each year and we already know the population base.  We have the numbers over time.

I keep hearing people talk about the good old days.  When exactly is that?  I hear of people talking about fishing being better 20 years ago.  Well, going back to black rockfish, their population is higher than at any time since the 70's, well more than 20 years ago.

We all like to dream about the good old days.  However, one must always keep in mind that fisheries are managed for Maximum Sustainable Yield (MSY).  To do that, fisheries are targeted to maintain a level of 40% of virgin biomass.  Any more than that, and we target to catch more to reduce the numbers, any less than that and we target to catch less to increase the numbers.  Those are the realities of today's fisheries.

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Life_is_Yak

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Not true.  We already know how many are caught each year and we already know the population base.  We have the numbers over time.
I disagree, we do samplings to estimate populations and in general it gives us a good idea, but we really don't know how many are caught, how many are killed, etc.  We have numbers but errors are there as well, again they are baselines and they paint a good picture but not the whole picture.

I keep hearing people talk about the good old days.  When exactly is that? I hear of people talking about fishing being better 20 years ago.  Well, going back to black rockfish, their population is higher than at any time since the 70's, well more than 20 years ago.
I think, and this is my personal opinion, it is any time when people could catch an abundance of fish with minimal effort.  Its interesting to read about the pilgrims coming over and they had to plow through fish to get to the shore.  Now there may be some exaggeration in their accounts but it seems logical to think they saw many many fish coming to shore. 

On a side note
We had the largest migrating heards in the world right here in the US and we completely killed that system to put rail roads in.  Monterey has cannery row for a reason.  Seems reasonable to think the fish population was completely different in the 1800's.


We all like to dream about the good old days.  However, one must always keep in mind that fisheries are managed for Maximum Sustainable Yield (MSY).  To do that, fisheries are targeted to maintain a level of 40% of virgin biomass.  Any more than that, and we target to catch more to reduce the numbers, any less than that and we target to catch less to increase the numbers.  Those are the realities of today's fisheries.
I get that and its all based on statistical analysis.  What happens if you increase the number of fish 10 fold.. those ratios work exactly same doesn't matter its a billion or 100.  My point is we should target to catch less and increase the numbers

another side note
we only know what we see, imagine, or learn about in other ways.  Nearly 100% of what we see on a daily basis has been shaped by people.  The effects we have as a whole are unfathomable, and that can be a good thing!  We imagine a world we want, we build it. We learn of the way the world use to be we restore it.  If we chose to only know what we see then we don't see our effect at all and we don't plan, we react.


Schills206

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Already purchased my RF Descender.  C&R is the way to go!


crash

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I get that statistical analysis is hard, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  There is plenty of junk science to criticize, but you have to point to a flaw in the data.  Just because we don't get a 100% count doesn't mean that the data is flawed.  Far from it.


Sin Coast

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I feel like we're talking about a number of different yet inter-related topics. But I bet most of the participating members of NCKA would favor a reduction in daily bag limit from 10 to 7. You're preaching to the choir.
I've probably caught a limit of rockfish from my kayak over 150 times during the last 12yrs...and kept a limit maybe 10 times (conservative estimate; it's probably more like 8/225 trips). So, not everybody OTW is keeping the max.

People tend to over-romanticize things they enjoyed doing when they were younger. It's a common emotional trait. So, the 'good old days' is a relative term, based on perception & experience (e.g., Make America Great Again). And, according to some, perception is as important as a talking cat... :-)  For me, this IS my good old days. Right meow! Although, 2012 was pretty good too--fish were practically jumping into my kayak. People need to stop worrying about what they don't have; instead be grateful for what you got!
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Life_is_Yak

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I get that statistical analysis is hard, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  There is plenty of junk science to criticize, but you have to point to a flaw in the data.  Just because we don't get a 100% count doesn't mean that the data is flawed.  Far from it.
I wasn't saying the margin of error is unacceptable, far from it.  My intent wasn't criticizing the science other than to point out we have know errors which people tend to forget.  My intent was to point out we have the capability to improve but as polepole pointed out we choose the margin that favors harvesting in our current planning or cultural mindset.

I guess overall my thought is: we don't fully understand the fish behavior enough to say that the act of fishing is 99% of the reason rockfish aren't so plentiful you catch 10 an hour.  Maybe its just sardine harvesting that lowers the primary food source by 80% which drops the fish population by 40% and we catch 40% and the other 19% goes another way.  That's all hypothetical.  So the only real way to measure our impact is to remove us from the picture on a large scale and see what happens.  That would give a baseline.  Now there are loads of scientific journals with cases that study ecosystem health but I've never read anything on that scale.

Hmm just had a crazy thought.  What if we had an earn a fish program.  Where you had to catch and release 10 fish to keep one.  documenting them with an app or something.  That'd be some data.


 

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