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2018 AOTY/DOTY Entry

Topic: Is it time to reduce Rockfish limits?  (Read 2821 times)

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polepole

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Just to clarify some minor innacuracies, the good stick boats can produce over 1200lbs of salmon in two DAYS; not MONTHS.

Was he talking salmon?  I thought we were discussing rockfish.  Willha, can you provide more context for this stat?

-Allen
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srdave

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You cant tell me that we cant wipe out a reef from fishing. We most certainly can and do. The jetty like Bodega are just a shell of what it used to produce. I used to go there and fill a gunny sac of nice blue and black rockfish and I mean nice size fish too you wont see that anymore.
I see it all the time even diving in some spots the abalone get wiped out too. There are areas like Fort Ross head used to have Hundreds of 9 to 10 inch abalone like coins in a fountain huge schools of Blue and Black rockfish you could spearfish in 45 minutes and have a limit of nice rockfish. Try that now you might not even see a blue rockfish.



polepole

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You cant tell me that we cant wipe out a reef from fishing. We most certainly can and do. The jetty like Bodega are just a shell of what it used to produce. I used to go there and fill a gunny sac of nice blue and black rockfish and I mean nice size fish too you wont see that anymore.
I see it all the time even diving in some spots the abalone get wiped out too. There are areas like Fort Ross head used to have Hundreds of 9 to 10 inch abalone like coins in a fountain huge schools of Blue and Black rockfish you could spearfish in 45 minutes and have a limit of nice rockfish. Try that now you might not even see a blue rockfish.

I didn't say we can't wipe out a reef.  And certainly your experience proves that we can.  But I can say that I have experienced reefs that are hit hard, but still manage to produce.

BTW, was that a fake track image?

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ex-kayaker

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plus I was taking into account the countless times I go out annually for salmon, halibut, striper and sturgeon and even sometime trout and get skunked.  I catch a lot more fish than my circle of personal friends and family and I dont feel as if every sport fisherman is actually taking a ton of fish out of the Ocean


Got a good chuckle from this

There's no (legal) commercial fisheries for wild striper, sturgeon or trout and they're not being hammered and discarded as bycatch in other fisheries......maybe your lack of success can be attributed to other factors lol.




Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

..........agarcia is just an ex-kayaker


srdave

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No that was not a real image... Just my sense of humor....LOL :smt003
Not only can a reef get depleted but a whole species of fish like the canary and Yellow Eye some of it from other reasons than just fishing but if we lighten the load it might help and what the heck is 3 more fish anyway? BUT you ain't going to get the party boats to agree with this they will scream like crazy so I doubt it would even get brought up. So it ain't going to happen but you know what most of you will be around long after I am gone I hope the ocean can sustain it for your kids to enjoy it too.


crash

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Hojoman

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Just to clarify some minor innacuracies, the good stick boats can produce over 1200lbs of salmon in two DAYS; not MONTHS.

Was he talking salmon?  I thought we were discussing rockfish.  Willha, can you provide more context for this stat?

-Allen
Also wondered why abalone was involved in the talk about reducing the rockfish limit


srdave

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Abalone are over fished/harvested YES...NO? Same Ocean yes ?
I put abalone in the conversation because they have been hit hard and this is what happens to a reef full of fish if it get hit often enough. It will play out. In your opinion do you feel you will be able to take your grand kids out in 20 years and the fishing will be as good as it is now.......?
I don't think it will without real change now. Heck the abalone are starving what else is going on that we are not aware off?


polepole

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Let me stick with my black rockfish example as a proxy for other rockfish ... from 2006 to 2015, do you think black rockfish populations have decreased, or increased?

While we all probably have anecdotal evidence of local reefs being depleted, please keep in mind that management regions are much much larger.

Also keep in mind that fisheries are managed for Maximum Sustainable Yield, meaning harvest is set to maintain a relatively fixed level of population.  Unless a fishery is overfished, it is not managed for growth.  Reducing individual limits, in the absence of increasing the MSY levels (or decreasing quotas) will have relatively little effect other than perhaps extending the season, so that we collectively still harvest the pre-determined quotas.

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srdave

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You ask if the Black rockfish population has increased or decreased ? Well fish and game have answered that question 3 years ago we could keep 10 then last year they changed it to 5 this year lowered it to 3 with that and my own observation it has decreased. You can see it when you dive too they are just not around like they used to be. I am sure the kelp loss is certainly not helping matters.
The kelp loss and starving abalone has many worried as to what else is being affected and will this will have on the fisheries. Its all part of the same system. I know 3 fish is not going to save the world but my point is who cares if you take 3 less fish, can it help? .... I don't know maybe just little but certainly cant hurt either.


crash

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If only that were an easily answerable question with all of the data compiled in one place for easy reference so we didn't have to rely on anecdotal evidence. That would really be something.


polepole

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You ask if the Black rockfish population has increased or decreased ? Well fish and game have answered that question 3 years ago we could keep 10 then last year they changed it to 5 this year lowered it to 3 with that and my own observation it has decreased. You can see it when you dive too they are just not around like they used to be. I am sure the kelp loss is certainly not helping matters.
The kelp loss and starving abalone has many worried as to what else is being affected and will this will have on the fisheries. Its all part of the same system. I know 3 fish is not going to save the world but my point is who cares if you take 3 less fish, can it help? .... I don't know maybe just little but certainly cant hurt either.

Black rockfish populations increased every year from 2006 to 2015, the last year for which PFMC has data on their website.  Note that there was a noticeable spike in landings the last couple years of that timeframe, perhaps correlated to the fact that salmon season was shut down and many people switched to rockfish.  Also, over this time period, we generally saw an extension in seasons (maybe not in the far north, I don't know that region as well).  Individual catch limits don't tell the whole story.

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Hojoman

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Abalone are over fished/harvested YES...NO? Same Ocean yes ?
I put abalone in the conversation because they have been hit hard and this is what happens to a reef full of fish if it get hit often enough. It will play out. In your opinion do you feel you will be able to take your grand kids out in 20 years and the fishing will be as good as it is now.......?
I don't think it will without real change now. Heck the abalone are starving what else is going on that we are not aware off?
You started out talking about rockfish. Now you're expanding the discussion. What other creatures will you include next?  My point is your discussion started out regarding rockfish and then you went off on a tangent about abalone.


srdave

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I cant believe someone does not understand why I would including abalone and the loss of kelp and some other fish species from an ocean ecosystem in the fish take conversation. Tangent? what don't you understand?
First off if when you dive for abalone AND spearfish you see whats under the water and things just look way different. With the loss of kelp and with that disaster what else is it affecting? I see and catch and spearfish less blues and blacks than I have in the past and definitely smaller even if you do find them. Other divers say the same.
The limit on black rockfish ALSO pertains to spear fishing YES?
 
Now I am speaking of only what I know this would be Sonoma county so I don't know about Mendocino or Marin but you cant tell me there are more black and blues in Sonoma than 10-20 years ago no way. We used to see huge schools of blues and blacks when spearfishing now even if you see a little school there small you don't want to bother shooting them. So lets just change the limit to 7 its not a big deal 7 nice fish and 2 ling cod that's a lot of fish heck you can even keep a Canary now.


polepole

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Now I am speaking of only what I know this would be Sonoma county so I don't know about Mendocino or Marin but you cant tell me there are more black and blues in Sonoma than 10-20 years ago no way.

Actually I can, but I have a feeling you won't agree as your experience doesn't align with the data.

Try reading this ... http://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Black-rockfish-2015_FINAL.pdf

-Allen
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