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2017 AOTY/DOTY Entry

Topic: Preaching the PFD message ...  (Read 2685 times)

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crash

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So Doug, what are YOUR thoughts on this subject?  You seem to be trying to make a point about HOW I'm making my point, vs. discussing the actual topic ...


So you admit that you set out to generate exactly this discussion to somehow prove your point that because you don't wear a PFD 0.002% of the time you are otw that people shouldn't play pfd nazi cop?  Congrats I guess.  Seems you managed to piss off a couple people along the way and maybe nuked the reentry training conducted by members here but you proved a point.  Yay.

Who is pissed off?  Please let me know.  Not my intention.

Nuke the re-entry training?  That is in the past.  I dont' think I have the capability to affect things retroactively.

pfds, like vaccinations, should be considered mandatory for everyone unless there is a really damn good reason not to.  In the case of vaccines you will know from a doctor.  In the case of PFDs you will know from thousands of hours of personal experience or by the necessity of the circumstance.  But to initiate the conversation pretends that there is a debate on the subject when there is not one.  Wear your pfd.  Vaccinate your kids.  The exceptions will be obvious and we don't need to discuss them publicly because again, it gives the appearance of a debate and there isn't one.

I think this thread was irresponsible, I think that you should not have started it, and I don't possibly see what good it has done.

If you started a different thread about how to better educate people about the best ways to approach education and increase pfd use while not scaring people off or turning people off with pfd nazi cop tactics that seem to be tolerated here, I'd have a much different tone.  But that's not the thread you started and thats not the thread you intended so instead you have this third trimester abortion of a thread instead.

That's what I think.

Really?  That's not the thread I started?  Either I didn't phrase it correctly, or you aren't understanding it correctly.  Or both.

I support the "wear your PFD mentality".  I do not support the disrespectful regurgitation of said message.

-Allen



Its hard to keep up with the several hundred replies between here and FB to remember but I distinctly recalling Craig using the words "stupid asshole".  He's always in a constant low level of being pissed off though so maybe he's not a fair example.  But still, that has been the tone across hundreds of posts if not a bit less blunt.

Maybe Ken is right about the use of the word "preaching".  There are different ways to preach and one way might be inoffensive and effective while others might chase the parishioners off elsewhere.  The word might mean different things to different people depending on life experiences and to some, like me, "preach" as a word carries no negative connotation whatsoever.

Maybe instead of talking about times that people don't really need to wear pfds to segue into a discussion about heavy handed nazi cop tactics, you could have just said hey, lets back off on the heavy handed nazi cop tactics because the message is lost on the listener and it turns out that such tactics are counterproductive.


Thanks Doug. Love you too!!! I saw some more stupid assholes at Tomales yesterday while I was in a fantastic mood. Full of good cheer and enjoying a wonderful day on the water. Lol

I guess the question for the day is how did you react?  Did you:

a) confront them and tell them that they need to wear pfds or else you were going to nominate them for the darwin award;
b) confront them and tell them they should never be allowed to have offspring;
c) call the actual cops and snitch them out; or
d) enjoy your Lagunitas and give zero fucks about what they were doing


polepole

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So Doug, what are YOUR thoughts on this subject?  You seem to be trying to make a point about HOW I'm making my point, vs. discussing the actual topic ...


So you admit that you set out to generate exactly this discussion to somehow prove your point that because you don't wear a PFD 0.002% of the time you are otw that people shouldn't play pfd nazi cop?  Congrats I guess.  Seems you managed to piss off a couple people along the way and maybe nuked the reentry training conducted by members here but you proved a point.  Yay.

Who is pissed off?  Please let me know.  Not my intention.

Nuke the re-entry training?  That is in the past.  I dont' think I have the capability to affect things retroactively.

pfds, like vaccinations, should be considered mandatory for everyone unless there is a really damn good reason not to.  In the case of vaccines you will know from a doctor.  In the case of PFDs you will know from thousands of hours of personal experience or by the necessity of the circumstance.  But to initiate the conversation pretends that there is a debate on the subject when there is not one.  Wear your pfd.  Vaccinate your kids.  The exceptions will be obvious and we don't need to discuss them publicly because again, it gives the appearance of a debate and there isn't one.

I think this thread was irresponsible, I think that you should not have started it, and I don't possibly see what good it has done.

If you started a different thread about how to better educate people about the best ways to approach education and increase pfd use while not scaring people off or turning people off with pfd nazi cop tactics that seem to be tolerated here, I'd have a much different tone.  But that's not the thread you started and thats not the thread you intended so instead you have this third trimester abortion of a thread instead.

That's what I think.

Really?  That's not the thread I started?  Either I didn't phrase it correctly, or you aren't understanding it correctly.  Or both.

I support the "wear your PFD mentality".  I do not support the disrespectful regurgitation of said message.

-Allen



Its hard to keep up with the several hundred replies between here and FB to remember but I distinctly recalling Craig using the words "stupid asshole".  He's always in a constant low level of being pissed off though so maybe he's not a fair example.  But still, that has been the tone across hundreds of posts if not a bit less blunt.

Craig, are you any more pissed off than normal?    :smt006


Maybe Ken is right about the use of the word "preaching".  There are different ways to preach and one way might be inoffensive and effective while others might chase the parishioners off elsewhere.  The word might mean different things to different people depending on life experiences and to some, like me, "preach" as a word carries no negative connotation whatsoever.

I usually do not associate preaching in a positive manner.  That's just me, and I can see how others might read it differently.


Maybe instead of talking about times that people don't really need to wear pfds to segue into a discussion about heavy handed nazi cop tactics, you could have just said hey, lets back off on the heavy handed nazi cop tactics because the message is lost on the listener and it turns out that such tactics are counterproductive.

Or maybe I used myself as an example, put myself on the line, and was still met with negativity.  Honestly, I don't see this unfolding any differently no matter the tactic I might have taken.

-Allen
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MF

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I'm new around here and don't want to create waves, but I'll let you know what kind of ruffled my feathers about this whole thing.  If I remember correctly, because I honestly didn't go back and re-read this whole thread, I said that I thought it was stupid to not wear a PFD but America is a country where people are free to die from stupidity. But I also said that I would never approach someone and tell them that. I'll just go about my day and keep my opinions about their choices to myself because that's what I would expect from complete strangers. I think that was misunderstood as me "preaching" or being a PFD nazi or something. Look man, if you start a thread about PFDs and education, your going to get people's opinions about it, unsolicited or not. The only thing this thread has done has made me feel like I should never bring up safety issues on this forum because I'll get called a nazi. Does that seem right to you? And as for the rock climber dude who climbed the thing without the ropes....what if he had died? I bet there would be a whole lot of people calling him a dumbass for thinking he was so good at his sport that he didn't need ropes or safety equipment. Just because he was successful doesn't mean he was making good choices.


polepole

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I'm new around here and don't want to create waves, but I'll let you know what kind of ruffled my feathers about this whole thing.  If I remember correctly, because I honestly didn't go back and re-read this whole thread, I said that I thought it was stupid to not wear a PFD but America is a country where people are free to die from stupidity. But I also said that I would never approach someone and tell them that. I'll just go about my day and keep my opinions about their choices to myself because that's what I would expect from complete strangers. I think that was misunderstood as me "preaching" or being a PFD nazi or something. Look man, if you start a thread about PFDs and education, your going to get people's opinions about it, unsolicited or not. The only thing this thread has done has made me feel like I should never bring up safety issues on this forum because I'll get called a nazi. Does that seem right to you? And as for the rock climber dude who climbed the thing without the ropes....what if he had died? I bet there would be a whole lot of people calling him a dumbass for thinking he was so good at his sport that he didn't need ropes or safety equipment. Just because he was successful doesn't mean he was making good choices.

What was said was the following:

It's America. Everyone has the God given right to die of stupidity. I know I wear one, so that's me covered.

This sentiment in this statement is part of the problem.  First, you assume someone is going to die.  Second, you assume they are stupid if they do.

-Allen

I apologize that that ruffled your feathers.

The rock climber dude did not die, so it's a moot point.  However, plenty of people free solo.  In general, I do not think it is frowned upon, certainly not to the extent that going PFD-less is.  The differences in attitude is an interesting dichotomy, one that I don't entirely understand.

-Allen
Sponsored and Supported by: Ocean Kayak Pro Staff, Kokatat Ambassador, Big Hammer, Humminbird 
Owner: NorCalKayakAnglers.com, NorthWestKayakAnglers.com
Publisher: KayakFishingMagazine.net, TheMilkcrateMag.com
Admin: Aquahunters.com


MF

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I'm new around here and don't want to create waves, but I'll let you know what kind of ruffled my feathers about this whole thing.  If I remember correctly, because I honestly didn't go back and re-read this whole thread, I said that I thought it was stupid to not wear a PFD but America is a country where people are free to die from stupidity. But I also said that I would never approach someone and tell them that. I'll just go about my day and keep my opinions about their choices to myself because that's what I would expect from complete strangers. I think that was misunderstood as me "preaching" or being a PFD nazi or something. Look man, if you start a thread about PFDs and education, your going to get people's opinions about it, unsolicited or not. The only thing this thread has done has made me feel like I should never bring up safety issues on this forum because I'll get called a nazi. Does that seem right to you? And as for the rock climber dude who climbed the thing without the ropes....what if he had died? I bet there would be a whole lot of people calling him a dumbass for thinking he was so good at his sport that he didn't need ropes or safety equipment. Just because he was successful doesn't mean he was making good choices.

What was said was the following:

It's America. Everyone has the God given right to die of stupidity. I know I wear one, so that's me covered.

This sentiment in this statement is part of the problem.  First, you assume someone is going to die.  Second, you assume they are stupid if they do.

-Allen

I apologize that that ruffled your feathers.

The rock climber dude did not die, so it's a moot point.  However, plenty of people free solo.  In general, I do not think it is frowned upon, certainly not to the extent that going PFD-less is.  The differences in attitude is an interesting dichotomy, one that I don't entirely understand.

-Allen

And I apologize if you felt like I singled you out. I'm not changing my stance though, I still think it is stupid. I'm sorry if that furthers your point or whatever. I think this whole thing could be settled over beers, some things are just too complex to really discuss on a forum. I, for one know that my limited ability to express my true feelings about a complex issue over the internet play a big part in this. Bottom line is though, if I ever saw you fishing without a PFD, I would think it was a bad choice, but I wouldn't tell you that because I respect your right as an adult to take as much or little risk as you see fit.


polepole

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I'm new around here and don't want to create waves, but I'll let you know what kind of ruffled my feathers about this whole thing.  If I remember correctly, because I honestly didn't go back and re-read this whole thread, I said that I thought it was stupid to not wear a PFD but America is a country where people are free to die from stupidity. But I also said that I would never approach someone and tell them that. I'll just go about my day and keep my opinions about their choices to myself because that's what I would expect from complete strangers. I think that was misunderstood as me "preaching" or being a PFD nazi or something. Look man, if you start a thread about PFDs and education, your going to get people's opinions about it, unsolicited or not. The only thing this thread has done has made me feel like I should never bring up safety issues on this forum because I'll get called a nazi. Does that seem right to you? And as for the rock climber dude who climbed the thing without the ropes....what if he had died? I bet there would be a whole lot of people calling him a dumbass for thinking he was so good at his sport that he didn't need ropes or safety equipment. Just because he was successful doesn't mean he was making good choices.

What was said was the following:

It's America. Everyone has the God given right to die of stupidity. I know I wear one, so that's me covered.

This sentiment in this statement is part of the problem.  First, you assume someone is going to die.  Second, you assume they are stupid if they do.

-Allen

I apologize that that ruffled your feathers.

The rock climber dude did not die, so it's a moot point.  However, plenty of people free solo.  In general, I do not think it is frowned upon, certainly not to the extent that going PFD-less is.  The differences in attitude is an interesting dichotomy, one that I don't entirely understand.

-Allen

And I apologize if you felt like I singled you out. I'm not changing my stance though, I still think it is stupid. I'm sorry if that furthers your point or whatever. I think this whole thing could be settled over beers, some things are just too complex to really discuss on a forum. I, for one know that my limited ability to express my true feelings about a complex issue over the internet play a big part in this. Bottom line is though, if I ever saw you fishing without a PFD, I would think it was a bad choice, but I wouldn't tell you that because I respect your right as an adult to take as much or little risk as you see fit.

First beer on me.

Yes, this is a complex discussion that is difficult to express in thread form.  It's probably more appropriate for an interactive discussion.

-Allen
Sponsored and Supported by: Ocean Kayak Pro Staff, Kokatat Ambassador, Big Hammer, Humminbird 
Owner: NorCalKayakAnglers.com, NorthWestKayakAnglers.com
Publisher: KayakFishingMagazine.net, TheMilkcrateMag.com
Admin: Aquahunters.com


AlexB

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If I see a member of this group doing something that I personally feel is unsafe, I'm going to say something... Period... (I will try to do it respectfully).

If anyone in this group sees me doing something they feel is unsafe, I can only hope they will do the same.

When I first joined this group as a relative noob, I posted a picture of myself proudly holding my PB halibut while wearing a pair of breathable chest waders. Thankfully, some helpful folks here on the forum pointed out my mistake. I didn't think I was doing anything stupid at the time, but others with more experience knew better. I'm really glad the "dress for immersion police" spoke up. Hell, now I'm one of them!




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ravensblack

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So Doug, what are YOUR thoughts on this subject?  You seem to be trying to make a point about HOW I'm making my point, vs. discussing the actual topic ...


So you admit that you set out to generate exactly this discussion to somehow prove your point that because you don't wear a PFD 0.002% of the time you are otw that people shouldn't play pfd nazi cop?  Congrats I guess.  Seems you managed to piss off a couple people along the way and maybe nuked the reentry training conducted by members here but you proved a point.  Yay.

Who is pissed off?  Please let me know.  Not my intention.

Nuke the re-entry training?  That is in the past.  I dont' think I have the capability to affect things retroactively.

pfds, like vaccinations, should be considered mandatory for everyone unless there is a really damn good reason not to.  In the case of vaccines you will know from a doctor.  In the case of PFDs you will know from thousands of hours of personal experience or by the necessity of the circumstance.  But to initiate the conversation pretends that there is a debate on the subject when there is not one.  Wear your pfd.  Vaccinate your kids.  The exceptions will be obvious and we don't need to discuss them publicly because again, it gives the appearance of a debate and there isn't one.

I think this thread was irresponsible, I think that you should not have started it, and I don't possibly see what good it has done.

If you started a different thread about how to better educate people about the best ways to approach education and increase pfd use while not scaring people off or turning people off with pfd nazi cop tactics that seem to be tolerated here, I'd have a much different tone.  But that's not the thread you started and thats not the thread you intended so instead you have this third trimester abortion of a thread instead.

That's what I think.

Really?  That's not the thread I started?  Either I didn't phrase it correctly, or you aren't understanding it correctly.  Or both.

I support the "wear your PFD mentality".  I do not support the disrespectful regurgitation of said message.

-Allen



Its hard to keep up with the several hundred replies between here and FB to remember but I distinctly recalling Craig using the words "stupid asshole".  He's always in a constant low level of being pissed off though so maybe he's not a fair example.  But still, that has been the tone across hundreds of posts if not a bit less blunt.

Maybe Ken is right about the use of the word "preaching".  There are different ways to preach and one way might be inoffensive and effective while others might chase the parishioners off elsewhere.  The word might mean different things to different people depending on life experiences and to some, like me, "preach" as a word carries no negative connotation whatsoever.

Maybe instead of talking about times that people don't really need to wear pfds to segue into a discussion about heavy handed nazi cop tactics, you could have just said hey, lets back off on the heavy handed nazi cop tactics because the message is lost on the listener and it turns out that such tactics are counterproductive.


Thanks Doug. Love you too!!! I saw some more stupid assholes at Tomales yesterday while I was in a fantastic mood. Full of good cheer and enjoying a wonderful day on the water. Lol

I guess the question for the day is how did you react?  Did you:

a) confront them and tell them that they need to wear pfds or else you were going to nominate them for the darwin award;
b) confront them and tell them they should never be allowed to have offspring;
c) call the actual cops and snitch them out; or
d) enjoy your Lagunitas and give zero fucks about what they were doing


I don't drink beer. I also consider it unsafe to consume a 12 pack while fishing at shelter cove.   Back to the question. A woman dressed in shorts and a light shirt was headed across the bay towing an inflatable raft. Haha. I just shook my head and said loudly, there's an accident waiting to happen. Then we went to nicks and ate some raw oysters. It was a great day with good friends. Happy as a clam at high tide. P.S. Doug. I love sensational headlines of tragedy.
"I always entertain great hope" Robert Frost


bmb

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I don't drink beer. I also consider it unsafe to consume a 12 pack while fishing at shelter cove.   Back to the question. A woman dressed in shorts and a light shirt was headed across the bay towing an inflatable raft. Haha. I just shook my head and said loudly, there's an accident waiting to happen. Then we went to nicks and ate some raw oysters. It was a great day with good friends. Happy as a clam at high tide. P.S. Doug. I love sensational headlines of tragedy.
Statistically, you're a lot more likely to die from eating raw oysters than from not wearing a PFD while towing an inflatable raft across tomales bay.   :smt003 :smt005


ravensblack

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I don't drink beer. I also consider it unsafe to consume a 12 pack while fishing at shelter cove.   Back to the question. A woman dressed in shorts and a light shirt was headed across the bay towing an inflatable raft. Haha. I just shook my head and said loudly, there's an accident waiting to happen. Then we went to nicks and ate some raw oysters. It was a great day with good friends. Happy as a clam at high tide. P.S. Doug. I love sensational headlines of tragedy.
Statistically, you're a lot more likely to die from eating raw oysters than from not wearing a PFD while towing an inflatable raft across tomales bay.   :smt003 :smt005


That's means I'm a stupid asshole then. Lol!!!!!!!!
"I always entertain great hope" Robert Frost


TexasBoy

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haven't read this whole thread yet but damn, is it January already????


DG

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haven't read this whole thread yet but damn, is it January already????
Bookmark it. 
-----------------------------------
DG = 1st name Duane / last name starts with G.  Not very creative, but InsaneDuane was already taken.


solsrf1

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Anyone ever try to put one on while in the water? Especially difficult if you are in shock from the cold water, maybe overweight, out-of-shape, or old.....oh yeah, and while trying to radio for help-doh I store my radio in my pfd..... :smt005
 

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Thekayakkid

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I'll admit I never wear one anymore. When I first started kayaking I did but at some point I stopped not sure when. Then again I mostly kayak fish the delta, sac and American so it's a bit different from the ocean. But yeah I have gotten shit from other people for not wearing it and it does get low key annoying especially when it's not presented in the best way. I'll take my risks and you take yours. Iv taken the risk of swimming to and from alcatraz, angel island etc with a wet suit and no wetsuit so I think the risk of kayaking with no pfd is small in comparison. As far as preaching it i never tell anyone anything unless I'm taking a kid on my kayak or see block head swimming in fast parts of the ar. oh and hey what's natural selection ? ;)


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« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 12:54:27 AM by Thekayakkid »


 

anything