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2018 AOTY/DOTY Entry

Topic: DOTY 2017 Changes...  (Read 947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BigJim

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As we draw close to the end of the fifth year of DOTY I wanted to share with the NCKA community some stuff that has been floating around in my head...

1. I am super grateful to NCKA for creating a DOTY website for us and allowing us to play this game, even though it is a kayak ANGLING site and not a diving/spearfishing site.

I am especially grateful to PolePole (the owner) and bsteves (the AOTY/DOTY architect/webmaster).

2. I am also very grateful to all the people who have played over the past five years...

Each year has been different, had its own unique challenges, and had a different winner, and it looks like this year will be no different. Previous winners of fuzz (2012), me (2013), Nelson Kwok (2014) and Matt Lopez (2015) are nowhere near the top three so chances are good we will have another new DOTY Champ come midnight on 12/31.

3. I am pretty burnt out.  :smt005

I have had a TON of help along the way from great people like Rick, Fuzz, Rob Winn, Nelson Kwok, IceColdChuck, StinkyPete, SeanOtter and Matt Lopez...but the turnover rate for working with me on DOTY is pretty high.   :smt002

I've been working on DOTY (and handling finances and account activation and grand prize solicitation and trophy plaques for AOTY) for 5 years now, and can see that my motivation to work year round soliciting prizes, activating accounts, verifying fish, dealing with the occasional controversy over pics/fish ID/rules, purchasing trophy plaques, organizing awards ceremonies etc is waning.....

However, while my motivation to do the work is waning, I still care about DOTY because I have put sooo much time into it since I had the idea to start it in 2011.

And, I still think DOTY has a lot of value for many divers, and is fun for people that want to challenge themselves to target the diff species and be able to keep track of their PBs and firsts and engage in a little friendly competition.

3. We know DOTY is not perfect.

Over the years I have been against changing PointsPerInch for species/adding species/removing species/changing format primarily because then it becomes impossible to compare results/winners/scores etc over time.

We have added Scallops, taken off Calico bass, tweaked some rules (lip pinching etc) and changed PPI for a few species so essentially each year has still been a different comp, and in my mind we really can't compare high scores/winners etc across the years...which is something I personally would have liked to see happen.

My stubbornness has no doubt bummed some people out and cost DOTY some players, but that's ok, and I am comfortable with that.  :smt008

Not everybody is gonna like every comp/game/tourney but that doesn't mean that the tourney should have to change their rules to make each player "happy". As long as the rules/format are clear up front the person can decide whether or not they wish to play.

4. We want to mix it up a little for 2017.

Despite my stubbornness and desire to keep the game the same, we do think some changes will be good for DOTY and for the majority of people playing the game...

Over the years we have received all kinds of feedback from people...some of the feedback has been incorporated into DOTY and some has not...

We (myself and whoever else has been on the DOTY committee at the time) have made a point to make sure that we do NOT make changes based on feedback from people who seem to want to change DOTY to make it into a game they think they could do better at, a game that would be "better" for how they like to dive, where they like to dive, and what kinds of fish they like to target...

However, we get it that some people don't want to harvest certain species for a variety of reasons...and we don't want DOTY (or my stubbornness to change DOTY) to be the only reason that a person (or group of people) kills certain kinds of fish...

So...with all of the above said, we WILL be making the following changes for 2017 DOTY:

A. We will be adding Striped Bass taken from the Ocean as a species.

It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.

Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.

Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.

These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.

We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.

AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317

These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338

We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to.  :smt001

B. We will be making DOTY a best of FIFTEEN species comp.

As stated above, some divers don't like shooting some types of fish for any number of reasons (they don't like eating that fish, they don't like taking that species of fish for moral/ethical reasons etc).

For the past 5 years all of the species in DOTY have counted towards a diver's total points, so it has kinda been like Pokémon...gotta get em all!  :smt002 :smt005

While the Pokémon style has forced divers to dive up and down the coast, in various depths and areas etc it has had the effect of forcing anyone who wanted to be a serious DOTY competitor to take at least one of ALL possible species regardless of its size or if the diver really wanted to kill it.

However, we have resisted going to just having the top ten species count (like AOTY) because then it would potentially be possible for a diver to just harvest 10 relatively easily found species and place/win without pushing themselves to find and take some of the more "elusive species"...

For example, in 2012 fuzz took 12 species in a day out of SWS...one day of diving should not be all it takes to win a year long comp like DOTY:

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/84

With the addition of Striped Bass from the Ocean, there will now be 19 total possible DOTY species...by having the top 15 species count a diver who does not want to shoot a certain species (for whatever reason) will not have to, and will have the flexibility to shoot species they actually want to kill, BUT will still have to push themselves to dive different areas and explore to get 15 species.

Here are some possible combinations that we can think of with the new top 15 rule:

Shallow (less than 30 feet) Combo:
1. Cab
2. Greenling
3. Ling
4. Perch
5. Monkey
6. Olive
7. Grassy
8. Kelpy
9. Blue
10. Black
11. BNY
12. Ab
13. Scallop
14. Copper
15. Sheep/Butt/Striper Wildcard

NorCal (North of GG Bridge) Combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Greenling
4. Ling
5. Perch
6. Olive
7. Grassy
8. Kelpy
9. Blue
10. Black
11. BNY
12. Ab
13. Scallop
14. Butt
15. Copper/Monkey/Striper/WSB Wildcard

Elitist (No "trash fish") combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Ling
4. Butt
5. Olive
6. Grassy
7. Blue
8. Black
9. Copper
10. China
11. Ab
12. Scallop
13. Sheep
14. WSB
15. Striper

CenCal (south of GG Bridge) Combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Ling
4. Perch
5. Butt
6. Monkey
7. Sheep
8. Olive
9. Grassy
10. Kelpy
11. Blue
12. Black
13. Copper
14. BNY
15. Striper

Obviously there are a lot of different combo possibilities, and our hope is that divers will still be able to be competitive in DOTY, without having to kill species they are opposed to taking, but will still be required to push themselves to explore and dive outside of their personal comfort zone to take 15 species that are big enough to be competitive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We hope whoever actually read all this can tell that we put a lot of thought into it, and that we take DOTY and these changes and the impact they will have on the game and players very seriously...

We really hope these changes are well received and that people will be stoked on them, but if not (for whatever reason) that is OK as well...

As long as the rules/format are clear up front each diver can decide whether or not they wish to play, and we will just worry about those that do decide to play.

 :smt008

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 04:58:16 PM by BigJim »

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
~DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~


porky (bp)

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Jim,

Do you still want me to help with the DOTY/AOTY banner? Or you gonna change it up?

Lemme know bro! 🐟


BigJim

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Jim,

Do you still want me to help with the DOTY/AOTY banner? Or you gonna change it up?

Lemme know bro! 🐟

If you are still willing and able to help with the banners for DOTY/AOTY/NWKA AOTY that would be awesome!!

I know you got a ton on your plate right now so just let me know if you prefer not to mess with them this year!!

 :smt008

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
~DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~


porky (bp)

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Its no problem. Ill do it. 👍🏼


Weimarian

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Wish i had the lungs to dive! Looks reasonable to me. Those that don't like to keep the long lived rockfish, won't have to. I call it a good move. Like our photo and release option topside. Leave it to breed or for another to be stoked out on that fish you passed on....
Here fishy fishy... Someone's been selling the hell out of wake boats!!!! Sun is back! Protect yourselves! Let's fish Rollins and Folsom after work all spring and summer!!!


Adam415

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I like it Jim. It levels the playing field for those not fortunate enough to have dozens of hours available to look for s few of the more elusive ones.
Wilderness Systems Radar 135
Wilderness Systems Tarpon 160i
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCtFJdtY1W9M4MGfoz4Ndb8A


Fisherman X

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I'm not in the DOTY competition, been considering for next year. In reading the post and looking at the combinations you have shown, it certainly looks like a lot of thought and consideration has gone in to it. Thanks for your efforts and hanging in there all this time!
-Success is living the life you want-
Joel ><>


Yowlie

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Thanks for all the great work.  I don't know where you find the energy to do this.  Can't decide which combo I want, yet.  I think I'll have a #4 with Sea Bass.  This is not a critique or a rant, but I still say there is no downside to a 12" Rockfish minimum across the board.  All it does is show that this contest sets its own ethical bar.  I know the answer:  "if you don't want to shoot a 10" copper rockfish, then don't."  I guess the answer to that is "if you don't want your contest (and by extension the NCKA community) to encourage the shooting of fish that are too small to be harvested, then don't."


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"we do NOT make changes based on feedback from people who seem to want to change DOTY to make it into a game they think they could do better at, a game that would be "better" for how they like to dive, where they like to dive, and what kinds of fish they like to target..."

"A. We will be adding Striped Bass taken from the Ocean as a species. "

 :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

I can see the name on that biggest striped bass award now  :smt001

All kidding aside .......thanks for all you do brother  :smt008
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 03:33:12 PM by Cabeza de Martillo »
Pronounced in Spanish  ka·be·za de mar·t·yo
Translates to Hammerhead in English for my Gringo amigos.
....and yes that's me with a 6ft. green moray in the avatar.

"Spearos before Hos" - Silent Hunter

"Give your son a fish and you'll feed him for a day.
Teach him how to spearfish and he'll feed you for a lifetime" - Cabeza de Martillo

Proud Papa of ...........
2018 JAOTY Lucas aka Baja Ninja
2018 JDOTY Noah aka Silent Hunter


AnnieAreYouOk

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BigJim you're the man! Thanks for all you do and the rule changes look great. Now that I have a chance at DOTY I better start shooting some fish lol jk!


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BigJim

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"we do NOT make changes based on feedback from people who seem to want to change DOTY to make it into a game they think they could do better at, a game that would be "better" for how they like to dive, where they like to dive, and what kinds of fish they like to target..."

"A. We will be adding Striped Bass taken from the Ocean as a species. "

 :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

I can see the name on that biggest striped bass award now  :smt001

All kidding aside .......thanks for all you do brother  :smt008

 :smt005

Yeah, I know how it looks but we/me have thought long and hard about the Striper issue...as evidenced by not adding them in 2013, 2014, and 2015...and not adding fish taken from FW (despite apparently pissing off some divers who think we are being pressured or bullied not to add them taken from FW  :smt012).

Just for background some of the suggestions I can think of off the top of my head that we have NOT added over the years are:

-Allow chumming/bait bagging
-Allow FW species
-Get rid of shallow ("trash fish") like greenling, perch, monkeys, bnys
-Add GPO
-Add urchins
-Add crabs
-Go to best of 10
-Change point system to give greater value to "better" fish like verms, butts, etc and less value to "worse" fish like perch/gophers/greenlings... #allfishlivesmatter  :smt002

My success/luck this year was obviously one factor in the decision to include Stripers taken from the ocean, but more than being about me and the fish I like to take, I honestly feel it is about allowing any diver playing DOTY the opportunity to submit these fish....and they are beautiful tasty fish that anyone can take in the hundreds of miles of sandy beaches between Monterey and Humboldt counties.

And with the best of 15 format no one will be required to take one to be competitive, as long as they can get 15 other species.

Thanks for all the great work.  I don't know where you find the energy to do this.  Can't decide which combo I want, yet.  I think I'll have a #4 with Sea Bass.  This is not a critique or a rant, but I still say there is no downside to a 12" Rockfish minimum across the board.  All it does is show that this contest sets its own ethical bar.  I know the answer:  "if you don't want to shoot a 10" copper rockfish, then don't."  I guess the answer to that is "if you don't want your contest (and by extension the NCKA community) to encourage the shooting of fish that are too small to be harvested, then don't."

I totally get what you are saying John. My main concern with the minimum size limit is that if someone wants a certain kind of rockfish I could totally see some (not all) divers shooting say an 11.75 inch one (thinking it was 12 or greater), and then since it didn't count going out and shooting another one to get the species on the board...so instead of that diver killing just one small fish they end up taking two (or more) to get that species on the board...

And, as stated above, with the 15 species format there will be the flexibility not to have to target and harvest a small RF of one kind, and replace that species with another one.

And with a minimum size fish limit we wouldn't get awesome entries like these for smallest fish of the year award...and that is just unacceptable.  :smt002

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/50

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/710

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
~DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~


Yowlie

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I here ya.  Been out of range for a few days . . . .  Submitted.


 

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