NorCal Kayak Anglers

General => CA Regulations => Topic started by: JamesM on January 03, 2018, 02:28:38 PM

Title: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 03, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
Is it legal to stack 2 baits while trolling salmon at different depth with one rod? Thinking about the "cheater" hook technic. Many thanks! 
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: bmb on January 03, 2018, 02:33:45 PM
Is it legal to stack 2 baits while trolling salmon at different depth with one rod? Thinking about the "cheater" hook technic. Many thanks!
as long as you don't exceed the hook restriction you're good.

27.80. Salmon.
(a) Methods of take:
(1) General Provisions. Only by angling as
defined in Section 1.05. No sinkers or
weights exceeding four pounds may be
used, except that a fishing line may be
attached to a sinker or weight of any size
if such sinker or weight is suspended by
a separate line and the fishing line is released
automatically by a mechanical
device from the sinker or weight when
any fish is hooked. See sections 28.65
and 28.70.
(2) Barbless Hooks. No more than two (2)
single point, single shank barbless hooks
shall be used in the ocean north of Point
Conception
(34° 27’00” N. lat.) when
salmon fishing or fishing from any boat
or floating device with salmon on board.
(3) Other Hook Restrictions. When fishing
with bait in the ocean between Horse
Mountain (40°05’00” N. lat.) and Point
Conception, if angling by any means other
than trolling, then no more than two
(2) single point, single shank, barbless
circle hooks shall be used. The distance
between the two hooks must not exceed
five inches when measured from the top
of the eye of the top hook to the inner
base of the curve of the lower hook, and
both hooks must be permanently tied in
place (hard tied). A circle hook is defined
as a hook with a generally circular shape,
and a point which turns inwards, pointing
directly to the shank at a 90 degree
angle. Trolling is defined as angling from
a boat or floating device that is making
way by means of a source of power, other
than drifting by means of the prevailing
water current or weather conditions. See
Section 28.65(g).
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: bmb on January 03, 2018, 02:40:15 PM
If I were doing it, I would only use it on the slider rig, with the upper rig just clipped on so it naturally travels down to the bow in the line connected to the downrigger.  I wouldn't fix it to the line nor would i use it on a DD6 rig.  I know of some boaters who do it but it's extra work on a kayak since you can't really lose speed or you might have tangles.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 03, 2018, 02:47:45 PM
If I were doing it, I would only use it on the slider rig, with the upper rig just clipped on so it naturally travels down to the bow in the line connected to the downrigger.  I wouldn't fix it to the line nor would i use it on a DD6 rig.  I know of some boaters who do it but it's extra work on a kayak since you can't really lose speed or you might have tangles.

Thanks a lot! That is exactly what I was thinking. Use a snap swivel to let the cheater hook slide down to the middle of the bow. Will test it on trout first. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: Sin Coast on January 03, 2018, 06:41:16 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: krusty on January 03, 2018, 06:44:24 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

No, not if you are trolling.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: crash on January 03, 2018, 06:51:37 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

If all of the following apply:

You are not trolling
You are using bait
You are south of Horse Mountain (about 4 miles north of Shelter Cove, in southern Humboldt County).

Then you need hard tied 5" max distance and CA legal circle hooks.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 03, 2018, 07:05:01 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

Good call, forgot about that rule
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: krusty on January 03, 2018, 07:05:53 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

If all of the following apply:

You are not trolling
You are using bait
You are south of Horse Mountain (about 4 miles north of Shelter Cove, in southern Humboldt County).

Then you need hard tied 5" max distance and CA legal circle hooks.

North of point conception
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: bmb on January 03, 2018, 07:13:00 PM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

Good call, forgot about that rule
i don't see why i would use two separate lures like that if i was mooching, just seems like a cluster.  the definition of trolling is pretty loosely defined for kayaks anyways as we're not under power really.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: LoletaEric on January 03, 2018, 10:40:48 PM
Interesting idea - many of us have considered this.  Good luck - please let us know how it goes.

I feel that adding complicating factors to an already difficult endeavor is risky at best.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: KPD on January 03, 2018, 10:56:10 PM
I think I caught two salmon this past season on a stacked setup using a DD6. I would run the upper lure on a slider held in place with a rubber band.

My conclusion was that the main benefit of running two lures is that it keeps you busy while the fish aren't biting. 
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: AlexB on January 04, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
Definitely legal, but I think it’s probably more work than it’s worth given most of our ocean salmon here in the Bay Area are caught in the top ~10-40 feet of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 04, 2018, 10:33:52 AM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

If all of the following apply:

You are not trolling
You are using bait
You are south of Horse Mountain (about 4 miles north of Shelter Cove, in southern Humboldt County).

Then you need hard tied 5" max distance and CA legal circle hooks.

Now a little bit confused...So let's say if I am trolling and using bait (Anchovy), do I need to follow the 5 inch max distance rule?
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 04, 2018, 10:37:01 AM

Definitely legal, but I think it’s probably more work than it’s worth given most of our ocean salmon here in the Bay Area are caught in the top ~10-40 feet of water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting idea - many of us have considered this.  Good luck - please let us know how it goes.

I feel that adding complicating factors to an already difficult endeavor is risky at best.

Yeah, I don't know how beneficial it would be. Especially, if most fish are biting at the top 40 ft or so.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 04, 2018, 10:40:50 AM
I think I caught two salmon this past season on a stacked setup using a DD6. I would run the upper lure on a slider held in place with a rubber band.

My conclusion was that the main benefit of running two lures is that it keeps you busy while the fish aren't biting.

Good to hear success story on this. I was watching kokanee/landlocked king video and the guy from Shasta Tackle stated some time fish may pass the lower bait/lure and swim up see the second lure then react to the top lure. That is where is got me all started thinking about this.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: crash on January 04, 2018, 10:44:37 AM
Even if you used 2 single hooks on 2 seperate lures (say, 1 apex and 1 spoon), they'd still have to be within 5" of each other though, right?

If all of the following apply:

You are not trolling
You are using bait
You are south of Horse Mountain (about 4 miles north of Shelter Cove, in southern Humboldt County).

Then you need hard tied 5" max distance and CA legal circle hooks.

Now a little bit confused...So let's say if I am trolling and using bait (Anchovy), do I need to follow the 5 inch max distance rule?

If you are trolling then the hard tied circle hook rule does not affect you.  Because you are trolling.  The point of the rule is to prevent a salmon from swallowing a hook to its asshole.  That doesn't really happen while trolling, it's more of a problem mooching.
Title: Re: Ocean Salmon
Post by: JamesM on January 04, 2018, 10:48:32 AM

If you are trolling then the hard tied circle hook rule does not affect you.  Because you are trolling.  The point of the rule is to prevent a salmon from swallowing a hook to its asshole.  That doesn't really happen while trolling, it's more of a problem mooching.

Great! Thanks a lot!