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Topic: GPS Salmon Tracking  (Read 2911 times)

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mickfish

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Group IQ is inversely proportional to the size of the group.

A Steelhead always knows where he is going, but a Man seldom does.


ab10

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LoletaEric

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That's good stuff there.   :smt001
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ab10

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Let me preface this by saying I am all for knowing more about the salmon and the gathering of information.  In fact it may be just the way the reporter worded the article that has me thinking.  I also used to do volunteer work collecting this exact thing;  GPS location, heart, fin clip and otoliths.  The grad student I was working for was using a microchemistry technique that could tell what tributary a fish came from due to the chemical variation in the otolith.  This was due to the geological location of new volcanic rock and old granite rock, which varies as you move from north to south down the Sierra Nevada. Whew!

OK, here is what I got from the article and here is my thinking.

"Through the use of genetic testing and GPS tracking, the theory is fishermen could be directed to better avoid those restricted salmon."

"The fishermen would be paid to land the fish, use a GPS unit to pinpoint the catch location and take a small clip from a fin to be analyzed later by scientists. The fish then might be harvested or returned to the ocean."

"...the study would prove valuable if such a program someday allowed regulators to open or close fishing grounds in the midst of a salmon season."


It sounds like they are taking a GPS location of where the fish was caught and taking a fin clip for DNA identification.  How does this work in real time implementation of fishing regulations.  If that fisherman gets the samples and information to the lab in reasonable time and the lab processes the DNA to see what watershed it is from, it will still take longer than that school will be around to get that info out to the public. 

Such a program cannot be used to predict a schools behavior or location real time as they are in constant flux especially being hammered by predators every day.

If they could "Lo-Jack" these fish out of the hatchery then I see that being new and progressive data, where they could actually track the chaotic nature of schooling fish.

Sorry for the long winded type up. (I haven't even had a beer) I suppose what I should do is go down to NMFS and talk to John Carlos Garza and see what he is really planning on doing. :smt002


LoletaEric

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Amadeo - What I got from the article is that they hope to identify at what times of year you will typically see fish from Sac, Klamath...etc.  It's not going to be perfect, but it could help to know the trend - like if a high percentage of fish caught each April around Shelter Cove are from a certain watershed...  I think it's got potential to help, but, you're right, it won't be perfect.   :smt001
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SBD

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This program is already being implemented in Orgeon by Michael Banks at OSU called the CROOS Program and it is for real.  They can use daily GPS information, including depth and temp., combined with daily DNA samples processed in real-time for daily harvest management.

Essentially guys turn in there samples at the end of the day, they head to the lab to be processed for the next day.  If they hit a bunch of Klamath fish in a certain area/depth, they will know the next day, and now have maps with areas to avoid.  While its not perfect, it is MILES better than finding out 6 months after the fact through CWTs that you over harvested a stock the previous summer.  As they work the kinks out expect this to go coastwide.


ab10

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Ab-King - If there was one thing I learned from the Western Groundfish Conference held in Santa Cruz this year it was that indeed data "wont be perfect" and that there will be a constant thirst for more accurate and true data.  The result is people making very hard decisions about what to do based on what little they got.  Bottom line is that we are trying to do something and that matters. :smt001

Sean - Well shoot, if they can do it in real time, that is awesome and I am sure for it.  Thanks for clearing that up.  I still like the "Lo-Jack" idea though. Imagine. :smt003


Uminchu Naoaki

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The grad student I was working for was using a microchemistry technique that could tell what tributary a fish came from due to the chemical variation in the otolith.  This was due to the geological location of new volcanic rock and old granite rock, which varies as you move from north to south down the Sierra Nevada. Whew!
That's what exactly Jim & I try to do, but we're trying to do w/ more population level & aiming to locate the small tributary!  & Kalmath fish data working very well so far... :smt004
so did you work for Rachael?  :smt001

This program is already being implemented in Orgeon by Michael Banks at OSU called the CROOS Program and it is for real.  They can use daily GPS information, including depth and temp., combined with daily DNA samples processed in real-time for daily harvest management.

Essentially guys turn in there samples at the end of the day, they head to the lab to be processed for the next day.  If they hit a bunch of Klamath fish in a certain area/depth, they will know the next day, and now have maps with areas to avoid.  While its not perfect, it is MILES better than finding out 6 months after the fact through CWTs that you over harvested a stock the previous summer.  As they work the kinks out expect this to go coastwide.
yeah, that's what they said at meeting.  It only take them within 2 days to get DNA result & salmon's genetic mappings are well developed so I think this is possible.  You can always said what ifs, but more we know better choice we can make.  However, they only do it when this type of stuff happens & sometime it might be too late...  and they already closed the salmon fishery anyways...
But really if we don't start doing the study right away (when the technology is available), we won't be able to apply the information to make sudden choices like this year (even last few year)... :smt012


ab10

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That's what exactly Jim & I try to do, but we're trying to do w/ more population level & aiming to locate the small tributary!  & Kalmath fish data working very well so far... :smt004
so did you work for Rachael?  :smt001

Sure did.  Just for a few trips, but it was really cool.  Glad to know there are other people working on the same thing.  Here is an illustration I did of the experience. :smt004



sigelvictory

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Correct me if I'm wrong.. which I often seem to be, but this is the kind of thing that is only (or at least should be) applicable to commercial fishing vessels right.  I mean, I don't see how this sort of information can be filtered down to the recreational fisherman.  The regs are hard enough to follow... now you need to monitor your coordinates in the open ocean in order to insure you're fishing for fish that have certain genetic information.  It just seems to me, that programs such as these are an outright admission that commercial fishing is the problem.  I really find it hard to believe that rod and reel guys, in any number, have the ability to wipe out entire runs of fish... It would take the entire bunch of us here on the NCKA days to catch watch a commercial vessel gets in one dip of the net.  The fish aren't going to hang around under our kayaks long enough for us to do that sort of damage.  So, why is there not a recreational salmon season again?  Hell, I'd settle for a one fish limit daily and a 3 fish yearly take like sturgeon.  I hate to sound like I am unconcerned with the plight of commercial fishermen and the well being of their families, but damn.  I made a choice (often ridiculed by members of my family) to never buy or engage in the consumption of commercially harvested fish.  So whatever damage I can personally do to the pocketbook of the commercial guys has been done.  Maybe I am unconcerned...

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 04:49:34 PM by sigelvictory »
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mickfish

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3 fish per yr cost a lot to enforce and the party boats would catch a lotta fish., I'd be happy with 1 this year.
As far as the GPS locations that would be easy just mark every fish you catch and down load later.
Group IQ is inversely proportional to the size of the group.

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sigelvictory

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Im willing to lump party boats into the closed commercial bracket, and yes, I would settle for one fish as well
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ab10

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As far as the GPS locations that would be easy just mark every fish you catch and down load later.

Sure, but my data set would have three points for one year. :smt005


mickfish

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Quote
Sure, but my data set would have three points for one year.
If you're lucky more like 0 this year
Group IQ is inversely proportional to the size of the group.

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Uminchu Naoaki

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That's what exactly Jim & I try to do, but we're trying to do w/ more population level & aiming to locate the small tributary!  & Kalmath fish data working very well so far... :smt004
so did you work for Rachael?  :smt001

Sure did.  Just for a few trips, but it was really cool.  Glad to know there are other people working on the same thing.  Here is an illustration I did of the experience. :smt004



wow, that is one great drawing!!! :smt041

3 fish per yr cost a lot to enforce and the party boats would catch a lotta fish., I'd be happy with 1 this year.
As far as the GPS locations that would be easy just mark every fish you catch and down load later.
same here...  I just wanna one so delicious fresh ocean caught salmon (fatty & no muddy taste)... :smt055 :drool only one...  but I couldn't even get last year, so totally out of luck for me... :smt010


 

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