6 years later, Wilderness decides to change the leaky Orbix hatch

This is how I fixed mine.
It is not bone dry. It still let water in a bit if water keeps going over the bow. About a glass of water for the whole trip, that does not count on one trip when I opened the hatch and a wave went right over.Duh....

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=61265.msg687809#msg687809

I had water in the kayak, about a 1/2 gallon. No big deal. If you want it perfectly dry in bad conditions don't by a kayak at all.

I find your statement quite offensive.  1/2 gallon of water to YOU would be no big deal, but it is to me.  My T160i version was bone dry after water baptism launches, bad conditions, and crash landings.
Maybe that was the reason why they got rid of it.  Having these flaws that should not happen will get people to buy a newer version. 

Hey potto,

My 2014 T160 front hatch was kinda leaky and warped from the day I bought it. No big deal but surprising since the OK boat I have is almost always bone dry after a trip. Still prefer it over a tupperware type, wadda PITA!

How did you get the new type hatches? Let us know how it works out, may want to get some myself.

Don't buy them because they won't fit.

Funny how you use a OK boat that is almost bone dry.  No surprise you like to use it.

The main complaint I have at this point is the seat...dang thing really messed up my back, recently took it out and replaced it with an OK cloth type, seems more comfy and I feel more connected to the boat, gotta get it on the water to confirm but may be a big upgrade.

Yes, seats are bad.  I tossed mine and use Surf to Summit.

Too bad about not being able to upgrade the hatches, would be nice if they were more water tight (larger front hatch would also be a plus).

New seat worked great and I must say the Tarpon 160 is way faster than the Prowler (14'). I hardly use the OK yak since I got the WS but it still has a place. In more difficult remote launches the lighter weight can be really nice and the Prowler can be used for surf landings that would be much more challenging in the Tarpon.

Would love to get a Stealth but I would be afraid of breakage , it's very hard to fix those type of light brittle materials and make it look good again.

It must be some marketing ploy to attract buyers by giving them a FREE seat.
The seat doesn't come close to what I find comfortable.  The cheapest Surf to summit works great for me.
I ended up removing the Tarpon seat.


I would prefer to use the kayak for a year before giving my review.
This is not a review but some initial observations.

This feature looks worthless.

How does water escape.  Am I to carry a sponge with me.
Have you noticed it reduced the amount of headroom inside the kayak.
From the center hatch to the left and right side is limited by this bulge in the kayak.

The footwells are an improvement.  The wells are straight making it easier to install a fishFinder.
The footwells makes it very difficult with rod storage to the left or right, but it is what it is.  I'll take the good over the bad.


All rods now must be stored in the center.  The problem I am seeing it the 12oz cup holder getting in the way.
If you do it wrong, you can break an eye on the rod.
Solution: remove the 12oz. cup holder.  I don't remember the last time I drank out of a 12oz can or bottle. 
You can see it this pic, the cup holder is smooched.  Making it easier to put rods below.


New updated cup holder


new center hatch issmaller.  Which makes me wonder if you can store a 7ft rod through it.
I am sure you can, but it is tight.
I installed a new hatch, but removing the version 1 lid only, and putting the new one on.
1. Uninstalled old.
2. Remove old lid.
3. Install old 180 degree off.
4. Install new on top of old.

Side rails are up for debate if those actually help.  It SOUNDS like a great idea until you understand how the system works.
Wood screws are holding it in place.  And the Parts are expensive. 
The front left and right rails are too long.  I only need about a foot, and I wish they are the more sturdy Yakattack rails.  The one with screws and bolts holding it in place.

Stealth is looking better every day.

I had water in the kayak, about a 1/2 gallon. No big deal. If you want it perfectly dry in bad conditions don't by a kayak at all.

I find your statement quite offensive.  1/2 gallon of water to YOU would be no big deal, but it is to me.  My T160i version was bone dry after water baptism launches, bad conditions, and crash landings.
Maybe that was the reason why they got rid of it.  Having these flaws that should not happen will get people to buy a newer version. 

Why is a 1/2 gallon of water a big deal?  Every kayak that I have owned (without a Tupperware hatch) has taken on some water during surf launches/landings/rough conditions.  The amount of water is small, and I don't notice any appreciable difference in stability or speed.

I found the Tupperware hatches to be a huge pain in the ass. While they are water tight, they are difficult to access and re-seal when on the water.  I would much rather have a slightly leaky hatch that is easy to access than a watertight PITA Tupperware hatch.

I had water in the kayak, about a 1/2 gallon. No big deal. If you want it perfectly dry in bad conditions don't by a kayak at all.

I find your statement quite offensive.  1/2 gallon of water to YOU would be no big deal, but it is to me.  My T160i version was bone dry after water baptism launches, bad conditions, and crash landings.
Maybe that was the reason why they got rid of it.  Having these flaws that should not happen will get people to buy a newer version.

Quite offensive?  Sheeesh, lighten up a little.

I'm amazed at how all these "issues" with the kayak seat, rails, access, webbed pockets, etc. were overlooked by you, the buyer of the kayak.  I doubt anyone made you purchase this model/brand, you chose to purchase this model & brand.  Wilderness builds kayaks equal to or above the standards of most other kayaks on the market ... PERIOD!

After re-reading all these posts several times, I see a lot of complaints about the kayak for your own personal fishing needs.  Guess W.S. should be building kayaks to suit your specific needs & not care about anybody else around the globe that uses these.  It appears you don't realize that not everyone uses it, fishes it & rigs it the same way as you.

No reply needed .... I'm bored with this thread already.

Why is a 1/2 gallon of water a big deal? 

Is it really just a 1/2 gallon?  Does the kayak take in 1/2 gallon of water and all of the sudden stop taking water in?  As if 1/2 gallon is the maximum it will ever take.
Is it possible 1/2 gallon can turn into a gallon of water?

The problem is, you have a leak.  Why would you want to have your gear soaking in salt water?  From experience, that becomes costly.
Cheaper to fix the leak than fixing gear.

I would much rather have a slightly leaky hatch that is easy to access than a watertight PITA Tupperware hatch.

I don't find the tupperware hatches difficult.  Something I got used to.  You said removing a tupperware lid is a PITA.  Really?  Is it really that difficult?  What makes it sooooo difficult?
It makes economic sense to spend a little more time and effort to keep things below dry than it is to tear-down, re-lube, and rebuild your gear.

I'm amazed at how all these "issues" with the kayak seat, rails, access, webbed pockets, etc. were overlooked by you, the buyer of the kayak.  I doubt anyone made you purchase this model/brand, you chose to purchase this model & brand.  Wilderness builds kayaks equal to or above the standards of most other kayaks on the market ... PERIOD!

After re-reading all these posts several times, I see a lot of complaints about the kayak for your own personal fishing needs.  Guess W.S. should be building kayaks to suit your specific needs & not care about anybody else around the globe that uses these.  It appears you don't realize that not everyone uses it, fishes it & rigs it the same way as you.

No reply needed .... I'm bored with this thread already.

Let me get this straight.  I start a thread, you rant on it then tell me not to reply.  From your first post on this thread I knew you were not worth speaking to.

When you grow up and want to have an adult conversation, and you are able to speak with logic, reason, and accountability, let me know.

Soon to join the ranks of 'Elkhornsun'

Fishing salt = tear down and relube gear each season or twice a year if you fish a lot... Consider that every time you move or adjust your weight (lift up) suction is created at all seals. Water will get in... will... All brands and tupperware lids too... Looks like you fairly well modified that kayak. Resale shot but works for you. Looks like you bought a kayak that didn't work for you in the first place. To all those reading.... Try try try before you buy! Rent , paddle all the kayaks you can to find the one that fits your needs. So many out there....

Elkhornsun

Why is a 1/2 gallon of water a big deal? 

Is it really just a 1/2 gallon?  Does the kayak take in 1/2 gallon of water and all of the sudden stop taking water in?  As if 1/2 gallon is the maximum it will ever take.
Is it possible 1/2 gallon can turn into a gallon of water?

The problem is, you have a leak.  Why would you want to have your gear soaking in salt water?  From experience, that becomes costly.
Cheaper to fix the leak than fixing gear.

I would much rather have a slightly leaky hatch that is easy to access than a watertight PITA Tupperware hatch.

I don't find the tupperware hatches difficult.  Something I got used to.  You said removing a tupperware lid is a PITA.  Really?  Is it really that difficult?  What makes it sooooo difficult?
It makes economic sense to spend a little more time and effort to keep things below dry than it is to tear-down, re-lube, and rebuild your gear.

My gear doesn't soak in salt water. I have a layer of pool noodles that my gear sits on.  The water is under the noodles.  If I really wanted to get fancy, then I would buy.. a...dry...bag.

Yes, the Tupperware hatches are a PITA. I had trouble securing my hatch when on the water in sloppy conditions, which is not the case with newer hatches. You need to go no further than your comment history to realize this, since as I recall you too had trouble with a Tupperware hatch in 2008 or so.

1/2 gallon or so does seem to be the max my kayak takes in (when I don't flip it), and that's a sunrise to sunset fishing outing. If you stay on the water longer than Rob or me, then yeah, a tight hatch might make sense.  Otherwise, for 99% of the kayak angling population who doesn't fish more than 12 hours straight, I think the slightly leaky hatches aren't a big deal.

I'll gladly take that Tarpon off your hands if you would prefer an older-style Tarpon!

When you grow up and want to have an adult conversation, and you are able to speak with logic, reason, and accountability, let me know.

I don't see a lot of logic or reasoning in your posts.  You essentially listed off a multitude of issues that boil down to personal preference and/or expectations and list them as items the company "screwed up". 

If you dislike the kayak so much I'm sure one of us here would take it off your hands so you can free yourself of the overburdening cupholder that viscously rips guides off rods.......although it's gotta be cheap......it's leaky, the seat is uncomfortable, the headroom below deck is limited and that mean old cupholder issue (I can't believe anyone would ever want a 12 oz beverage while on the water.....the nerve of WS, sheesh).

I'll start the bidding at $100.