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Topic: Humbled by god's creation," Bean Hallow" 10/20/06  (Read 20636 times)

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SBD

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I am familiar with them, and while I have no major beef with them, or others that are similar.  However I still believe puttting the seal in a hole where water will sit on it is a bad idea.  In particular a seal that is meant to be opened and closed in an enviroment where being fussy about things like sand etc are not reality.

If the flange on the lower frame went up only 0.25"  instead of, or in addition to going down, then you could make the entire surface where the rivets secure the frame a sealing surface with a wide thick seal.  The seal and overlapping lid would also cover the rivets  (another area I see lots of leakage) and give you a way better seal with gravity working to help you.  In addition slosh on the deck would be less likely to go down the hole when it was open.  You could still have a shoulder inside the frame for a bucket to rest on.  If the lid was beveled around the edge to get over the 0.25" spigot it would still be plenty flush, as its in front of your lap and under you knees....plenty of room.  The bevel and the spigot would also make it very rigid.

The Hobie tupper-bucket is nice.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 03:27:41 PM by scwafish »


Frankfishing

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Quote
I have recently gone to pushing them into place to seat them after having them locked into position. What to do Matt? Any suggestions?

It is a cosmetic issue... not a sealing problem.

It is still discomforting to see your hatch not flush after the experience that I have had at sea and being told that It should be okay until a replacement arrives. Cometic or not this did not occur until I used my Revolution for this short time frame since  my Outfitter was replaced for the Revolution.So I think I'll take it out to a small surf situation and really see how it fairs under those conditions.
Truthfully I do not fill the front hatch will keep it's seal having submerged this Kayak and watching the front open from a closed position to fully open allowing water to enter the hull once ajar. With that said I was wondering if Hobie has come up with a strap down system for the front hatch rather than the bungee cords? or is anything in the works? I Kayak in Northern Cal waters and having just recently returned from So. Cal waters I must say I am rather envious of the surf down there then what we have to contend with as the norm here in N. Cal.
Do you have anyother Mfr. fix for the front hatch?
One more question about this new tackle box. Are you saying that the reason for this space (gap) is for the allowance so this new product will fit correctly? Which means that if I want a correct fit I must eventually purchase this new product? Either way when are these items going to be available to me so I can appropriately outfit my Kayak? Thanks Frankfishng


mmiller

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I had heard no mention about a hatch defect or leak being a cause of the hull flooding before. If there was an issue it would have been related to one of the older (non-Hobie) hatches.

Twist n Seal Hatch -

The lid seal sets into the flange cylinder so that it is sealing on the cylinder walls and not just being compressed between two surfaces as most all other hatches do. It any other hatch, the lid must be flat to get the seal. The older hatches with the "T" handles also would sit a little crooked and required a very flat mounting flange. The Twist n Seal solves most of the sealing issues, but as in all other hatches and O Rings... you have to keep them lubricated to work best. Spray or rub a little silicone lube one the gasket from time to time. We could add more screw down latches to pull the lid flat every time, but there is no point. These seal well regardless of the lid being flat, so when not maintained... they still seal. If the flange is warped in mounting or over time... they still seal. Lube the gasket or press with your palm to get the lid flat.

Forward hatch on the Revolution -

These have pretty significant hold down force already. There is no factory plan to change the hold down system. Seems you could easily add a strap in the aft end for security though. I would think the only risk of a hatch coming loose when properly fastened would be upside down and dive weights or very heavy gear forcing the lid open from inside.

Surf size -

We get plenty of big stuff down here. Depend on what beach of course, like anywhere. LA area may be smaller due to far offshore islands depending on the swell angle. In Oceanside and San Diego county it is easily big enough on a pretty regular basis that getting out is a real challenge if not impossible for most kayaks. Not a lot of coves or offshore rocks to break it up. Lots of straight on beach breaking waves.

Gear Bucket -

Gear buckets are not required to make the hatch work. They are an accessory available though dealers now.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 12:02:40 PM by mmiller »
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company


Frankfishing

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Update,
I have swapped my Outfitter for the Revolution and since attending the self rescue demo at Stevens Creek Reservoir I have modified my new revolution. I have inserted foam into the lining of my front hatch as suggested also now do not float my Kayak without first inflating my dry bags then placing them in the front hole then into the bow.
The front hatch on the Revolution still leaves allot to be desired. When swamped the bungee cord attachments for the hatch are not sufficient to keep the hatch from opening enough to let in water. Unlike other Kayaks with front hatches that also have straps, which cinch down to create a more waterproof fit when submerged.Making self rescue harder in the Revolution the way Mfr.has set up these boats.
What I did was formed a piece of foam that fits the shape of the hatch then glued it in giving the forward hatch more of a seal however, the bungee system I am sure is still insufficient. One more step I will be attempting is a belt system like the more conventional Kayaks which I hope will remedy this situation with the forward hatch letting water in when swamped and self rescuing.
Any suggestion would be appreciated.

My mind set has also changed to Kayak er first fisherman second. I will be shopping for a more conventional ocean Kayak then the Hobie. Although I really like the Mirage system I definitely fill that they are more suited for calmer waters.
I had heard no mention about a hatch defect or leak being a cause of the hull flooding before. If there was an issue it would have been related to one of the older (non-Hobie) hatches.


We tested the Revolution at Stevens Creek at which time the front hatch was brought up. Stevens Creek is a reservoir in the Santa Clara area and very calm waters. When the Revolution was submerged the front hatch popped open allowing water into the hull as if the hatch wasn't even there. The bungee straps did nothing to keep the hatch from opening. Suggest that maybe someone at Hobie actually try this test out and there were a few of us there to witness the effect of how secure the hatch was under guarded and laymen trials. Posted here Nov. 13th 2006. No finger pointing just a cause for concern as mentioned back in November. Frankfishing


mmiller

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That is interesting. How was it submerged? That would be quite an unusual circumstance I guess. Doesn't sound like a likely situation in real life. Even punching through waves you are not actually submerged.

I'll have to ask our engineers to replicate the test in our tank here.
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company


ScottThornley

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Frank and Matt, you've got PM's.






Frankfishing

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Thanks Scott, Frank


HobieSport

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That really gets the point across.  What a shot! Thanks Frank and Marmite.  You just reminded me to stuff my hull with pool noodles before the Shelter Cove event.  :smt004


Fish Flogger

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This is my first time reading this thread and just wanted to say that I am very happy that Franks situation turned out the way it did. You were calm and collected under pressure and for that you are commended. Kudos to you Frank and thank you for sharing this experience with the rest of us so that others might avoid a similar dilemma.

Thanks Again,

-FF
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Pompano120

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This is my first time reading this thread and just wanted to say that I am very happy that Franks situation turned out the way it did. You were calm and collected under pressure and for that you are commended. Kudos to you Frank and thank you for sharing this experience with the rest of us so that others might avoid a similar dilemma.

Thanks Again,

-FF

same here first time reading and i admire how you handle the situation.  Maybe this will encourage me to write about my bad experience this year out at Big Sur which could of resulted with 1 person not coming back home. thank you for your inspiring story.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 06:16:20 PM by Pompano120 »


Bushy

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Where's that pic of Frank getting hoisted into the CG Chopper???

I NEED a copy of that!!!

Bushy

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FishingAddict

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Here's picture of Gideon (Eugene's Dad, now in heaven) and Eugene (Paddlefish) taken in Dec. 2011.

Somebody post Frank's picture. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 07:01:12 PM by FishingAddict »
2018 Hobie Revolution 13 Cheeesy Orange Papaya
2019 Hobie Revolution 11 Seagrass Green


Bushy

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SANTA CRUZ KAYAK FISHING Guide Service  2004
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Cpt Caveman

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Thanks for sharing and glad you were able to.
Rebuilding my kit, last year I put everything on the curb for free. Some lucky guy and his gal scooped everything. Remind me never to do that again.
Items needed:
4mm wetsuit 2xl?           
vhf                                  new paddle (using my paddles from 1996)
lip gripper                       crab pot
new yak...(in my dreams)


 

anything