Bye Bye, Net Neutrality...

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

Another person making grouping assumptions based on political party.  I wasnÂ’t much of a fan of many things Obama did but donÂ’t automatically want every law he passed dismantled.  This whole thing appears better for businesses than consumers. I think the logic was that if businesses were not over regulated they would have more of a desire to invest in new technologies and make the experience better for the consumers.  This could backfire for consumers but its one of those times we have to wait and see. I am guessing my Netflix cost will be going up soon because they use a high percentage of bandwidth as it is.

I don’t mean to make “grouping assumptions”. Sorry if it came off that way.

I was speaking to the folks in this group who keep trying to portray Obama’s net neutrality rules as some sort of government overreach. I want to know how they personally believe they will benefit from this repeal.


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I agree, this will affect the biggest bandwidth companies (Netflix being the one affected the most).  The ISPs (Internet Service Providers, i.e. AT&T, Comcast, etc) may require them to pay to access the ISPs' network, otherwise they may face bandwidth limitation.

From the users point of view, you may experience delay in downloading movies/media (i.e. what used to be 3 seconds to download, it may now be 3 minutes).  Worse, today could be 3 seconds, tomorrow could be 3 minutes, the day after could be back to 3 seconds.


Another example would be a redirection.  The ISPs may examine your internet traffic and informed 3rd party about it (i.e. ads agencies).  So your Internet traffic will bring in ads related to your Internet activities (it already does that now, but it's going to get worse).

Profiling is another one that can easily happen.   Another good example of this would be if you subscribe to a 'premium' service, you may get unlimited access to anything (i.e. download a movie in 5 seconds).  If you only subscribe to basic, you will get lower priority in internet access (i.e. download movies in 5 minutes).  Not a very good example as it is already like this now because of bandwidth subscription, but it can get a lot worse.

Imagine you try to order a Pizza Hut, but their ordering page comes up very slowly, but if you go to Dominos, their ordering page comes up instantly ....

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

The main argument is procedural: the FCC overstepped their statutory mandate. So, it’s congress, not the FCC who should make the call.

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

The main argument is procedural: the FCC overstepped their statutory mandate. So, itÂ’s congress, not the FCC who should make the call.

Can you elaborate on that? I know congress has the authority to override the FCC’s decision to repeal the net neutrality. (I doubt they will, given all the money GOP congressmen have received from telecom lobbyists pushing for repeal.)

Is that what you’re talking about?


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Imagine you try to order a Pizza Hut, but their ordering page comes up very slowly, but if you go to Dominos, their ordering page comes up instantly ....

They got a phone call the damn order in! Just saying...... a brick and mortar store can decide what they put in there store the same as you and I decide where we shop, is that much different. Now keep in mind I don’t spend much time on the internet except on here but if an internet provider can’t chose what they show,  then the grocery store can’t decide NOT to sell a specific brand ?

"But yeah, they are value added resellers of AT&T copper."
 
That's exactly what I was getting at. If AT&T decides they can make more money by cutting ties with Sonic, I have no doubt that's what they'll do.

Totally agree. I actually work for a value added reseller of AT&T (and Verizon/Frontier/Century Link/Telus/Bell Canada) copper. Emphasis on copper, something all telcos want to eliminate. The main thing keeping our doors open right now is the host of long-term contracts we negotiated while copper was king. I have no doubt that without those, they'd either pull our copper when the FCC allows it, or price us out of existence.

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

The main argument is procedural: the FCC overstepped their statutory mandate. So, it’s congress, not the FCC who should make the call.

This.  The internet is not a broadcast medium.   

Bushy

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

The main argument is procedural: the FCC overstepped their statutory mandate. So, itÂ’s congress, not the FCC who should make the call.

Can you elaborate on that? I know congress has the authority to override the FCC’s decision to repeal the net neutrality. (I doubt they will, given all the money GOP congressmen have received from telecom lobbyists pushing for repeal.)

Is that what you’re talking about?


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What I meant to say is that the primary argument against the 2015 FCC decision to regulate internet access as a “common carrier” was an overreach by the FCC.

 I don’t believe this is true, but it’s the best argument that I have seen.

Canceling net neutrality, privatizing NOAA (although tax payers will pay to
Collect the data) shrinking national monuments for oil and coal interests and all trumps other bullshit:  who’s surprised what an asshole that piece of shit really is.


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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.

Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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Sounds like the reason we don't need government regulation.

Sounds like you missed the point...

No, the point is the private companies will offer solutions. You don't need the government to force it.

PS. I'll  reply to your list after work. It will take more time to respond than I have now.

You honestly trust these giant telecom corporations to offer solutions that have the consumers' best interests in mind? Why? Just out of the pure kindness of their CEO's hearts? If you truly believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...

That is silly. They do it for profit. Sonic is in business to make a profit just like the profit you make when you go to work. If enough people are dissatisfied with their business practices they will go out of business. It has nothing to do with the kindness of their hearts. I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion.

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

And you trust who, politicians and bureaucrats? China's internet is government controlled. Do you see that as the better?

I believe the monopoly AT&T has requires them to allow others to use their copper. Does anyone agree that people with private ownership of equipment should be allowed to do with it what they want? Our part is to choose to do business with them or go elsewhere.

Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

And you trust who, politicians and bureaucrats? China's internet is government controlled. Do you see that as the better?

Net neutrality is orthoganol to the debate of "government vs privately run infrastructure".  China heavily censors and blocks content on their networks, but a US company can do this too now.

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I heard today that CA will introduce state laws for net neutrality January or February.  FCC has tried to stop states from enacting net neutrality, so it will end up in court. 

For some  real examples of Telecom companies violating net neutrality in the past:
https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history

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