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Topic: Bye Bye, Net Neutrality...  (Read 6162 times)

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Bungle

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Can anyone list the horrible inequities that stopped in 2015? Discriminatory, unfair, non neutral things that were actually happening that stopped in 2015?

Heres a couple to get you started:

-AT&T censorship of a live streamed Pearl Jam concert
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20201788/ns/technology_and_science-internet/t/att-censors-pearl-jam-then-says-oops/

-Verizon blocked text messages from reproductive rights group NARAL, calling them controversial
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/us/27verizon.html

-AT&T limited its use of FaceTime to incentivize the purchase of more expensive data plans
https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/17/3250228/att-facetime-over-cellular-ios-6-mobile-share



If you can be told what you can see, or read, it follows that you can be told what to say, or think.


crash

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If you can be told what you can see, or read, it follows that you can be told what to say, or think.

Hyperbole much?
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AlexB

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There seem to be two main arguments in favor of (or indifferent to) to rolling back the net neutrality rules.

First Arguement: It'll just go back to how it was in 2015 and that’s fine.

This one is pretty simple to address. It WON’T go back to the way it was in 2015 because it’s not 2015 anymore - it’s nearly 2018. With each year that passes, the internet becomes a bigger and bigger part of American’s daily lives. It’s how we access our entertainment (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc), it’s how we keep in touch with our friends and family (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Skype, What’s Ap), it’s how we conduct our business, its how we shop, it’s how we order our dinner, it’s how we access our fishing reports and watch YouTube videos of people catching big fish and doing other crazy sh*t. It’s in our cars, it’s in our living rooms, it’s in our security systems and baby monitors, it’s in our kid’s toys, it’s in cell phones that the vast majority of Americans have in their pockets.

Obama saw that rapid advancement in technology (and the first few attempts by telecom companies to control what content we have access to) and made a bold and proactive move to ensure that the internet remained an even playing field.


Second Argument: The only other arguments I’m seeing seem to boil down to ”It (hopefully?) won’t be that bad.”

You might be right. Maybe these giant telecom corporations will opt NOT do all the bad things that ~83% of Americans are afraid they will. Maybe they’ll even use their extra profits to raise their employees’ salaries, but that’s not very likely if you look to the past. They are more likely to use the extra money to pay down their debts and/or buy back stock to please their wealthy investors.

It's true that other countries have tiered systems. But America isn’t like other countries. We are the epicenter of corporate greed - it’s foolish to think that American corporations will act with the same level of decency as corporations in other countries.

Can anyone tell me how this repeal will actually benefit me as a consumer?

[I wrote this in Notepad then copied it here. For some reason all the apostrophes got lost in translation. Sorry about that.]




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« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:25:50 AM by AlexB »


Archie Marx

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You wanna know why the internet and it's technology has taken off the way it has?  Because government has kept it's nose out of it for the most part.  Most likely because the technology is light years above the average politcian's mental capacity.  But sooner or later the government just couldn't pass up fucking up another capitalistic enterprise that created more jobs in the past couple decades than every government regulation combined.  After all, control is what these swamp dwellers are all about.  Water, energy, air and now the ether.  All they do is try and scare the masses with draconian fears that didn't exist and try to convince them that they alone will make their lives more equal.  Not better, but bring it all down to the lowest common denominator. 
Now, where did I put my old 56K modem I used to hook up with the internet via my phone line?

A: Because the interwebs has been treated as a common carrier where providers can't favor their clunky old  products over a newer, smaller and more innovative product.

I know you would like to make this about government control, fear, the media etc., but the fact is that many of us have been advocating for a neutral internet probably years before this issue was even on your radar.

I lived and worked in a country where internet access is tiered by the service providers. It blew for me personally, it blew for tech startups, and it blew for the Hospital that I worked for. Let's hope that's not the case here.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:24:49 AM by Archie Marx »
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pindo124

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.


AlexB

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:29:53 AM by AlexB »


E Kayaker

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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Sounds like the reason we don't need government regulation.
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=42846.msg470404#msg470404

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AlexB

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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Sounds like the reason we don't need government regulation.
Sounds like you missed the point...


masterandahound

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Let's look at this another way ... can someone explain why this change was necessary and what the likely benefits will be to the consumer ?
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E Kayaker

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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Sounds like the reason we don't need government regulation.
Sounds like you missed the point...

No, the point is the private companies will offer solutions. You don't need the government to force it.

PS. I'll  reply to your list after work. It will take more time to respond than I have now.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 12:32:17 PM by traildad »
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=42846.msg470404#msg470404

The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.  ~John Buchan


AlexB

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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!

I’ll have to read up on their net neutrality stance. It’s my understanding that Sonic doesn’t actually own or maintain any of the physical infrastructure (cables) here in the East Bay. I believe they just “piggyback” on AT&T’s infrastructure, which would mean they are in some sort of contract with AT&T. I truly hope the terms of that contract allow them to continue their policies on net neutrality without jacking up their prices or cutting internet speeds.


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Sounds like the reason we don't need government regulation.
Sounds like you missed the point...

No, the point is the private companies will offer solutions. You don't need the government to force it.

PS. I'll  reply to your list after work. It will take more time to respond than I have now.
You honestly trust these giant telecom corporations to offer solutions that have the consumers' best interests in mind? Why? Just out of the pure kindness of their CEO's hearts? If you truly believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...
 


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For Bay Area residents, you can avoid this entire issue by using Sonic (https://www.sonic.com/). They have a publicly stated policy of net neutrality across their entire platform. Company is based in Santa Rosa. When you call them, a human answers the phone promptly - although they might need to hire some more folks given this change.

You might save some money too.
Bill

Disclosure: I am a happy Sonic customer but have no other relationship with them.
Yeah, Sonic is great. We use them for our internet here in Oakland, and my family up in Sonoma County does, too. No complaints!



The folks that I know that use Sonic have all been Pro-Sonic. I wish I could have used them where I am, but I'm about (only!) 500' too far from the Central Office for their service, per their reps.

But yeah, they are value added resellers of AT&T copper.
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AlexB

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"But yeah, they are value added resellers of AT&T copper."
 
That's exactly what I was getting at. If AT&T decides they can make more money by cutting ties with Sonic, I have no doubt that's what they'll do.


AlexB

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Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.



DG

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Aside from the warm fuzzy feeling that conservatives might get while they watch Obama-era consumer protections get repealed... Can any of you come up with an actual, concrete, tangible/quantifiable benefit to repealing net neutrality rules that doesn't rely on wild assumptions about the moral character of telecom CEOs?

I honestly want to know.

Another person making grouping assumptions based on political party.  I wasn’t much of a fan of many things Obama did but don’t automatically want every law he passed dismantled.  This whole thing appears better for businesses than consumers. I think the logic was that if businesses were not over regulated they would have more of a desire to invest in new technologies and make the experience better for the consumers.  This could backfire for consumers but its one of those times we have to wait and see. I am guessing my Netflix cost will be going up soon because they use a high percentage of bandwidth as it is. 
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