Knots and stuff.. Fly newbie on deck

I got a few questions for the fly fishing yak crew here. I got a spare reel for my sinking line and am ready to set it up. I've seen a few different ways to do this online and I have a braided mono loop that came w/ the flyline. This is for the end so switching leader is easier/quicker right? What are the pros and cons of these over a regular knot? Nail or other.

BTW there's no lb. test rating to fly line is there? How do I know what my fly line can handle?

Thanks!
Z

It's a rule of thumb that fly lines are strong enough for the task they were designed for. So you wouldn't be putting a 30 lb leader on a 3 weight fly line. However, you could conceivably be using a 20 lb straight leader on an 8 weight line, and the line is designed with that in mind.

Is that loop for the backing to line connection, or the line to leader connection?

If the former, then it may not be necessary if you don't change lines on that reel. If the latter, then it really does make sense to use the loop to loop connection to attach leaders, as they get changed on a regular basis. I have some lines that use the hollow braid loop, and others that have a 6" section of mono that is needle knotted to the fly line. At the other end of the mono is a loop. It is this short mono section that is used to loop on the actual leader. Clear as mud? Maybe a pic is in order...

teh intarweb to the rescue!



Anyway, my vote is to forget the nail/needle knot directly to the leader for the time being, unless you are targeting big fish. Use some manner of loop to loop.

Regards,
Scott

Thanks for the reply Scott. I think I do get it and will be putting the braided mono loop on the end. The idea of being able to change the leader easily and quickly sounds great... that nail knot is pretty daunting.

Z

I fish with a friend that uses the slip on braided mono end loop, and he has never lost a fish due to that loop. BUT, I just don't trust it. I do exactly like Scott recommends and tie a needle knot to the end of my fly line. With 5wt line, I use stiff 20lb mono for the end loop.

You should learn the nail knot and needle knot. They are a little tough at first, but you'll get the hang of it. Good luck!

Z,

Here's the skinny as I was taught.  If you are making delicate presentations or going for maximum distance with traditional fly (dry fly, unweighted nymph, wet fly, all w/o weight and leader only), then nail knot your leader directly to the fly line.  It doesn't hinge like a loop to loop will and will allow better presentation.

That said, if you are hucking large pieces of metal with feathers and hair on them (READ:  deceiver, clouser, half-n-half, etc....), a loop to loop isn't going to make that big a difference as your leader is usually short, especially if you are using a sinking head, and your leader material is HEAVY.  The slight hinging effects are grossly outweighed by the big sail of a fly on the end. 

Here's what I use:  8-10wt with a braided loop, BUT (and this is a big BUT!) I tie two nail knots back-to-back at the very end of the braided loop which is over the fly line.  Then I coat them with Loon Knot Sense.  This makes a nice smooth knot which goes thru eyes well and Knot Sense actually shrinks when it dries to make a real tight knot.  I have never had one of these pull off.  I also do the same thing to the other end (attached to the backing) and for a backing knot, I use a big Bimini twist so I can pass a coiled fly line through to make changing lines easier.

As for strength, most fly lines have a braided core which will always be stronger than the leader material.  I have a friend who nail knots 4' of 30lb fluro to the end of his 9wt shooting head for stripers and has never had the fly line break.  99 times out of 100, the knot in the fluro at the fly eye breaks.  The size of the leader is usually governed by the size of the fly to get it to turn over, not the fly line weight.  2/0-3/0 deceivers need heavy leader.  Otherwise the next knot is a "wind knot" and they suck!  Same with the length of leader.  Big flies need short leaders in most cases, and especially if distance is required. 

There is some great literature on this subject by Trey Combs, Lefty Kreh, and Steve Rejeff. 

WARNING:  Fly fishing is like golf - it is something you can continue to perfect forever and never get bored.  Also fly rods are like golf clubs, you need lots of them as they all have specific applications.  You wouldn't drive off the tee with a sand wedge nor putt wit the big dog. 

Wives for some reason don't get this and assume one is too many.

Good luck.

rob
jrsyboy

WARNING:  Fly fishing is like golf - it is something you can continue to perfect forever and never get bored.  Also fly rods are like golf clubs, you need lots of them as they all have specific applications.  You wouldn't drive off the tee with a sand wedge nor putt wit the big dog. 

Thanks for the info! But I think flyfishing is going to make the wife happier than the conventional gear. There's a ton of crap that you need. Flyfishing is much more simple.. I really love the beauty in that. A friend of mine never leaves his 4 piece rod and flybox at home. Anywhere he goes he's looking for fish. My hero!

Z

I'd like to confuse you some more.
I had a factory loop pull off at least twice and lost a shooting head each time so I don't put them on anymore.
I never had a nail, needle or Albright knot come loose.
If you are starting out then put a nail knot on. It is very easy after awhile. You need a nail knot tool which comes on some clippers. You can put 20 or 30 pound test mono on the fly line with this knot and after a foot or two tie a perfection loop and use this mono stub for all your loop to loop connections.
For the backing to fly line connection, you might consider an Albright knot.
Use a single Uni to attach your fly to the leader. It is a knot that you can tie without looking, such as in darkness.
For splicing two lines together use 2 Uni (Duncan Loop is the same) knots instead of a blood knot, or a surgeon's knot if you want to learn one more easy knot.

Hey Z, I've been out of the loop for a while, but your post is something I wanted to comment on. First...never ever trust braided factory loops, make your own.
My rule of thumb is any line below 6wt, I use the nail knot for flailing to leader connection.
Anything above, I use a braided mono loop and a surgeon lope on the leader for loop to loop connection. Scott's( Hey Scott) illustration is right on.
As long as the leader weight is equal to the mono lop weight the loops will not hinge, it's w
Always check your mono loops for wear. I've had a couple slip off because I didn't.
When that happens I'll use the trusted nail knot. Great knot for emergency situations.

Wives for some reason don't get this and assume one is too many.

Next time she brings it up, just tell her that she must only need one pair of shoes.

Man I am late on this one, but anyway here goes. I use the braided loop for the leader end simply because leaders breakdown/wear over the season and need replacing and I might want to use a different length in different waters (7-1/2 to over 12 feet)--so I change leaders often enough to make a nail knot a pain to deal with.

Rickey is right--make your own--don't trust the factory on that. You can get the braid from Marriots in LA on a spool for not much money--enough to last you a decade or more. Don't worry about "hinging" Make the loops small enough and there is no perceptible hinging. I have not had one Striper, Bass, or Trout complain yet But do keep them small or you will get a wobble.