NorCal Kayak Anglers

General => Fish Talk => Fish ID sub-forum => Topic started by: B0B on August 09, 2016, 05:25:53 PM

Title: Red Cebezon?
Post by: B0B on August 09, 2016, 05:25:53 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/87f9176222340f4c84d242ba3553854f.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/e5d4ea929acb24edbad09c93367a7a92.jpg)


Pulled up two of these yesterday from the kelp in front of SC lighthouse.  Im sure it is a color variant of cabezon,  threw it back since it was undersized anyways.   It was super red with a purple base color where the white undersides are.  Anyone ever get anything like this?  Pretty dope, and actually looks like plastic/glass.

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Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Dale L on August 09, 2016, 05:42:21 PM
When I read the title I thought to myself cabbies come in all colors depending on where they're hanging and what they're eating,

BUT, I've never seen anything like that,  very cool looking fish.


Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: CptSloppywood on August 09, 2016, 05:57:44 PM
I'm no expert but I know there is a red kelp greenling.it could be one of those
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: CptSloppywood on August 09, 2016, 06:00:58 PM
Really pretty though.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: DG on August 09, 2016, 06:01:34 PM
I have seen red cabbies.  Taste just as good as the other colors. 
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: eiboh on August 09, 2016, 06:26:52 PM
all easily explained. Fukushima power plant disaster and its still safe to eat. cut both sides gills and bleed well apostrophe not just one side. pregnant women are advised not to consume :smt001
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Martianfish on August 09, 2016, 06:34:41 PM
They must be redhot cabbies to go along with your name :smt005 :smt005
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Hojoman on August 09, 2016, 06:44:57 PM
Where did you catch it, Bob?
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Sin Coast on August 09, 2016, 07:20:53 PM
Cabezon are generally 2 colors: either green or red. I forget the #s but it's like 90% of redish cabs are male and 70% of greenish cabs are female. They aren't normally so red though. Those are pretty rare and we call em devil cabs. I've seen about 6 over the years but always near Carmel. Never bigger than ~16" long. That's the first (and second haha) I've seen from SC. I think it might be a life phase that some males go through as they grow up. I always wanted to put one in an aquarium because they're beautiful fish.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: NowhereMan on August 09, 2016, 08:20:35 PM
That is really cool. Thanks for the pictures.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: DG on August 09, 2016, 09:31:05 PM
I like the white ones.  Here's one.  (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160810/267dfb63e4d4088d6f7773abb107d79b.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: MontanaN8V on August 09, 2016, 09:50:24 PM
I seen a pic years ago someone down south caught one. I an with Pat, I would like to take a ton of pics and measurements and get a replica made with a cool base
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: alien on August 09, 2016, 09:51:07 PM
Looks more like  the kelp greenling. Have you seen the color of the water in SC the past couple of weeks. Theres been a red tint to it.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Fisherman X on August 09, 2016, 10:02:42 PM
The way the mouth/head shape and size looks, I believe it is a rock greenling - Hexagrammos lagocephalus, not a Cabezon.

Was it smooth skinned or were there any scales?
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: B0B on August 09, 2016, 10:10:13 PM
Ive caught my fair share of cabbies.  And well, a few greenling.  Im leaning a lot towards cabbie.  All the features point to it being a cabbie for many reasons as ive seen the whole thing up close.  Someone suggested irish lord, but i dont agree either.



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Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Tote on August 09, 2016, 10:18:41 PM
Looks more like  the kelp greenling. Have you seen the color of the water in SC the past couple of weeks. Theres been a red tint to it.

Mouth looks too small to be a cabbie and is somewhat pointed like a greenling.
VERY pretty fish nonetheless.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: DG on August 09, 2016, 11:02:23 PM
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/1283

Here is a rock greenling.  No way.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Chadrock on August 10, 2016, 05:28:16 AM
I'm no expert for sure, but I have caught a million greenling. I do not believe that to be one. Greenlings have much smaller mouths and are much more slender, and those pec fins look to be too large.
Looks like a badass bright red cab to me.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Tote on August 10, 2016, 05:38:30 AM
I have a hard time seeing an abalone going into a mouth this small. And I've seen abs come out of 16'' cabs before.
I am definitely no expert on cabbies, or greenlings, but it seems to me the mouth looks like that of a greenling more so than a cab.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Chadrock on August 10, 2016, 05:48:31 AM
Still too big a mouth and head IMO. And whats up with the sculpin like horn in the first pic?
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: ReelKnots on August 10, 2016, 06:39:19 AM
That's a red Cabezon !  :smt006



-Kiel
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: MontanaN8V on August 10, 2016, 06:40:42 AM
It's a canary
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: crash on August 10, 2016, 06:58:35 AM
That's a nice Fukushima red cabezon.  I've only seen one before, at the cleaning table at shelter cove.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Clayman on August 10, 2016, 08:03:55 AM
Cabezon are generally 2 colors: either green or red. I forget the #s but it's like 90% of redish cabs are male and 70% of greenish cabs are female. They aren't normally so red though. Those are pretty rare and we call em devil cabs. I've seen about 6 over the years but always near Carmel. Never bigger than ~16" long. That's the first (and second haha) I've seen from SC. I think it might be a life phase that some males go through as they grow up. I always wanted to put one in an aquarium because they're beautiful fish.
+1.  Cool cabs!  Can't say I've ever caught any with such a bright red coloration.  Like PK said, the majority of the red-form cabezon are males.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 10, 2016, 08:07:45 AM
I have a hard time seeing an abalone going into a mouth this small. And I've seen abs come out of 16'' cabs before.
I am definitely no expert on cabbies, or greenlings, but it seems to me the mouth looks like that of a greenling more so than a cab.

100% cabbie.

Nice one dude!!

I love the variety of colors on those guys!!

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: CptSloppywood on August 10, 2016, 08:11:25 AM
I hope I catch one that color someday. Soooo pretty.  And yummy toooooo...
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: SmokeOnTheWater on August 10, 2016, 12:58:15 PM
I'd have to vote for rock greenling. 

Very cool fish regardless...nice catch.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 10, 2016, 01:00:36 PM
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/1283

Here is a rock greenling.  No way.

+1.

The oversized fleshy pec fins, mouth, and cirrus on snout and above eyes all scream cabbie...like this...CABBIE!!!!

 :smt002 :smt005 :smt044 :smt005 :smt044

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: MontanaN8V on August 10, 2016, 02:29:29 PM
So is it a color phase cabby, or a greenling? I see totes view on the underside pic of the mouth profile, cabbies usually have a mouth like a catfish, rounded. But greenling have more of a pointed head and cabbies have a dome. I am leaning towards cabby myself, but what are the odds they both are incorrect?  Ocean species are fascinating!
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 10, 2016, 02:39:12 PM
So is it a color phase cabby, or a greenling? I see totes view on the underside pic of the mouth profile, cabbies usually have a mouth like a catfish, rounded. But greenling have more of a pointed head and cabbies have a dome. I am leaning towards cabby myself, but what are the odds they both are incorrect?  Ocean species are fascinating!

I would bet one million dollars (in my best Austin Powers voice) that it is a cabby....

Don't make me text Amadeo to get him to say the same...I usually only bug him for DOTY fish ID questions that are tricky...  :smt002  :smt005 :smt044

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: crash on August 10, 2016, 02:50:14 PM
This is an important one to get right. That is legal size for a greenling but short for a cab. If you got caught retaining it you would face an expensive ticket. Because that is 1000% a cabezon.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Chadrock on August 10, 2016, 03:36:50 PM
In my experience Greenling mouths don't get much larger than a ping pong ball at most. This is why I believe that I don't catch many of them off the kayak due to using larger gear.
Throw out a size 1 hook and a strip of squid off the rocks up here and you'll be up to your ears in greenling, rock and kelp. I love the different color schemes they can have.
It definitely is important to be able to identify the two out on the water. The two species are really quite different.   
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Tote on August 10, 2016, 04:00:46 PM
calling BS! (bsteves)  :smt044
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 10, 2016, 04:08:02 PM
Boom.

 :smt005

Amadeo literally wrote the book on fish ID.

http://studio-abachar.myshopify.com/products/pacific-northwest-fish-id-guide

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: MontanaN8V on August 10, 2016, 05:06:49 PM
Awesome fish none the less. Cabby. No es greenling.

But....would you kill it? I personally would not, like I said, I would get a replica, let it go. No hard feelings or judgement if you keep it. If it is genetic, be kind of neat to see more, but nature would cull them if it was a defective trait. Isn't red the last color in the spectrum to disappear? Maybe they aren't hiding as well as they think they are, and reds get eaten? Areas with low ling pop lets them get a little bigger? Wild ass guess carried to second decimal.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: B0B on August 10, 2016, 05:35:52 PM
I cant tell you its a cabby 100%. Perhaps 98%.  But i can tell you, by actually holding it and looking at it for a while, that it is 100% not a greenling.

The dorsal is much thicker and the spines are different lengths, tapering.  Greenlngs have thinner more even dorsal fin.  Head size in proportion to body points to cabbie.  Photo shows small mouth, but i can assure you its a pretty big mouth, not lingcod big, but same proportion as cabbies ive caught in the past.  Also read somewhere that the growth on its head by the nostrils and above its eyes also point to cabbie.

I caught 2 of them that day, so im  thinning its a variant or color morph natives to that particular hole, either that or, whatever its eating turns them red.  Or..... fukushima...

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Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: crash on August 10, 2016, 05:39:31 PM
Awesome fish none the less. Cabby. No es greenling.

But....would you kill it? I personally would not, like I said, I would get a replica, let it go. No hard feelings or judgement if you keep it. If it is genetic, be kind of neat to see more, but nature would cull them if it was a defective trait. Isn't red the last color in the spectrum to disappear? Maybe they aren't hiding as well as they think they are, and reds get eaten? Areas with low ling pop lets them get a little bigger? Wild ass guess carried to second decimal.

When I took a submarine tour in Hawaii red was the first color to disappear, at about 80'.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Sin Coast on August 10, 2016, 06:55:13 PM
More devil cab info...Tim's the master at catching them, I think he's gotten a few more since then too? http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=31513.0


This is a rock greenling.
(http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq217/Sin_Coast/Shore%20Rockfishing/Photo0045.jpg) (http://s449.photobucket.com/user/Sin_Coast/media/Shore%20Rockfishing/Photo0045.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: MontanaN8V on August 11, 2016, 07:30:31 PM
Awesome fish none the less. Cabby. No es greenling.

But....would you kill it? I personally would not, like I said, I would get a replica, let it go. No hard feelings or judgement if you keep it. If it is genetic, be kind of neat to see more, but nature would cull them if it was a defective trait. Isn't red the last color in the spectrum to disappear? Maybe they aren't hiding as well as they think they are, and reds get eaten? Areas with low ling pop lets them get a little bigger? Wild ass guess carried to second decimal.

When I took a submarine tour in Hawaii red was the first color to disappear, at about 80'.

Makes sense I got it back asswards!
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: VK on August 16, 2016, 01:09:36 PM
heard back from my neighbor..the biologist  said 100% Cabby 
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: B0B on August 16, 2016, 01:22:52 PM
heard back from my neighbor..the biologist  said 100% Cabby
Yea i was pretty convinced it was a cabby.

Fished the same spot again last saturday for the derby but didn't get any more of them. Wouldve taken better pics.

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Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Tote on August 16, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
calling BS! (bsteves)  :smt044

bsteves also confirmed...cabby.......I knew it all along.  :smt044 :smt011 :smt011 :smt044
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: DG on August 16, 2016, 09:40:15 PM
heard back from my neighbor..the biologist  said 100% Cabby
I saved a lot of money on schooling with no degree but dive enough for instant positive ID........never doubted it was a cabbie. 
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 17, 2016, 07:21:51 AM
never doubted it was a cabbie.

X 100

Yeah you guys should have just trusted DG...and me...and crash...and Amadeo...

 :smt005 :smt044 :smt005

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: steelhead on August 17, 2016, 08:10:35 AM
Cabbie for sure. Here is one that was caught in Carmel Bay on one of the rockfish survey trips.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Rock Hopper on August 17, 2016, 08:13:58 AM
The amount of people here who couldn't immediately tell that was a cabby is kind of unnerving.
Title: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Uminchu Naoaki on August 17, 2016, 09:41:37 AM
Haha...Sorry for the late response...
Yes, 100% Cabezon.
Easiest clue is the big head, thick body, & little flaps (cirrus) over the on the eyes and nose.
The color can different all the time.
Greenlings have smaller head, mouth & compressed body.
Also, Greenlings family; Hexagrammidae has multiple lateral lines.


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Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: Tote on August 17, 2016, 10:41:47 AM
The amount of people here who couldn't immediately tell that was a cabby is kind of unnerving.

Goal achieved.  :smt044 :smt044 :smt044
Title: Red Cebezon?
Post by: DG on August 17, 2016, 04:43:17 PM
I never said it wasn't Cabby ...all I did was show photos for comparison  , why all the "I told you so "crap  ..as far asking someone in the field why not ,that's what they're there for  .

Some will learn by using the thread , some by catching one ,some will make mistakes , some won't .

The callousness is a shame ,OG's have an opportunity to teach ;instead choosing to criticize  :smt012

Nobody was born with this knowledge gotta learn somewhere .

Ok have at it ...
Not at all criticizing.  I have sent pictures to specialists in the field who you would think would instantly know all the species located off our coast.  I was trying to learn more about the rock fish off our coast.  I usually get well, it looks like or could be.  But rarely they will positively ID a species. 

It's all good info and some will learn from these types of posts.  All I was trying to say was the more you catch or shoot the easier species Identification becomes.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: crash on August 17, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
I never said it wasn't Cabby ...all I did was show photos for comparison  , why all the "I told you so "crap  ..as far asking someone in the field why not ,that's what they're there for  .

Some will learn by using the thread , some by catching one ,some will make mistakes , some won't .

The callousness is a shame ,OG's have an opportunity to teach ;instead choosing to criticize  :smt012

Nobody was born with this knowledge gotta learn somewhere .

Ok have at it ...


Man you went and asked around and googled images and did a bunch of homework. Ain't nobody criticizing that.

I've told the story before of a DFW fish counter mistaking a gopher for a copper at shelter cove. Guy still took a bunch of pictures fs and got it right though. That's all anyone can ask or expect really.

It's just more important here to get it right because the cabbie is probably short and we don't want folks getting tickets.
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 18, 2016, 08:05:54 AM
I never said it wasn't Cabby ...all I did was show photos for comparison  , why all the "I told you so "crap  ..as far asking someone in the field why not ,that's what they're there for  .

Some will learn by using the thread , some by catching one ,some will make mistakes , some won't .

The callousness is a shame ,OG's have an opportunity to teach ;instead choosing to criticize  :smt012

Nobody was born with this knowledge gotta learn somewhere .

Ok have at it ...


Vic,

I'm sorry if the way I posted came off as callous or criticizing...I was just kidding around and thought my posts of the identifying characteristics of a cabbie, the picture I posted of the DFW chart showing cabbies vs greenling, and texting Amadeo and posting his response were a pretty good attempt at teaching combined with getting the opinion of a well known expert in the field of Fish ID...

For the past five years I have had to verify every single fish entered as cabbie or greenling in DOTY (and did a few years for AOTY as well), and this time spent looking at pics of these fish (in addition to countless hours looking at them underwater in all different shapes/sizes/color variations) made this one a no brainer for me and I really was just trying to make sure people got it and didn't make it harder than it had to be by thinking about hybrids or confusing the ID etc...

Anyway, I apologize again if my posts came off as harsh...was just kidding around.

 :smt008

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/1283

Here is a rock greenling.  No way.

+1.

The oversized fleshy pec fins, mouth, and cirrus on snout and above eyes all scream cabbie...like this...CABBIE!!!!

 :smt002 :smt005 :smt044 :smt005 :smt044

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim
Title: Re: Red Cebezon?
Post by: BigJim on August 18, 2016, 08:09:46 AM
Another great way to tell cabbies vs. greenling OTW if there is ever any doubt is that cabbies have no scales...greenlings have very small and rough scales...if you touch it and it's rough its not a cabbie...if you touch it and it is smooth it's not a greenling.

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim