So what did happen to the salmon this year?

.I gotta correct you here. I know there were plenty of salmon caught after July. My dad was up there a lot this summer/fall and he limited 3X in August, twice in Sept, and again last wknd (albiet on a boat).

That's so frustrating, PK!     I guess I gotta go back to the drawing board of how to find out about the bite down there.  I spoke to Cap'n Dave Beshunsky, Tammy and Lee at the launch, and a few others and all I got was "NO salmon".  Lee, the guy who stands to make money launching boats, even said, quite emphatically, "salmon are extinct here!"  I was ready to go down and do it on several occassions... 

So how far out did your dad hookup and how deep?   

I believe that;
 Long term natural cycles interface with...
 short term natural cycles that interface with...
 man made long term impacts and they all interface with...
 man made short term impacts....

 Sure, theres a chance of a wildcard banner year. As in genetics...they flare up once in a while. If one did say next year, our short term joy would last a few months until the primary trends in progress return.
 Have any clean, cool  new rivers been added lately?
No...
 And, just what are the chances of any kind of a turn-around without undaming and cleaning the principal rivers?
 The totality of the welfare of the salmon come from these few remaining rivers ..and what happened to them is us.
 Its all in our hands and we as fishers are not used to fighting w/ those higher up our own food chain.
 Thats changing finally and will hopefully gain momentum.
Steve
     

Steve, the sac river fish are not natural, they plant smolts. they try to come back, we catch them.

that's my limited understanding, not being much of a salmon fisherman.

so your angle is nice, but I'm not sure it's relevant?

so warm rivers mess with wild spawners, but I think we are catching planters essentially.

What happned to those?

p-spark says they are out there, deeper, but what about the river catch numbers? shouldn't those still be good?

Do they just stay out there for an extra year?

Btw, I just figured out that the salmon season is still open north of pigeon point (till nov 11).

So blue, maybe I am interested in a go-out up there sometime after all!

J

by the way did you see news about the herring fishery in the bay? shocker

I used to work the herring season as a diver, wild times Now it's down to a dozen boats

No, what happened there?

What happened there.......

In a nutshell (without my 2 cents)....demand for sushi grade herring roe, DFG mis-management and inability of a fishery to support the same number of Commercial fisherman than there used to be. 

jmairey the chronicle had a front page article on salmon yesterday

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/30/MNAAT2VTR.DTL&hw=salmon&sn=001&sc=1000

I'd go with the they're just coming in late theory myself but that might be wishful thinking


agarcia    did f&g keep the same quotas all these years?

Its just starting to look like a shit year.  Whatever was going on in the ocean, it wasn't good for this year class of Chinook. We remain WAY behind in fish counts.  I believe the remaining fish are huge is a result of under-exploited food base...the remaining few ate well...very well.  The few fish we have seen in our cameras are monsters.

While the new herring regs will almost certainly destroy the herring fishery, don't blame DFG, blame politics and the Commision.  The staffer at DFG, Eric Larson, made all of the right recommendations.  Political pressure from the herring industry squished his common sense recommendations as well as forced him to be transferred out of his job.  I saw his data and presentation at the PFMC and it was a no-brainer.  When it collapses from over-harvesting subadults and 1 time spawners they will have no one but greed and themselves to blame, but they will almost certainly blame someone else!  Super sad, a guy sticks his neck out there to make the tough call, and he gets his neck chopped off and a spanking. 

I used to wonder why folks at DFG staff are so reluctant to speak out...thats why!  Top leadership in DFG should not be political appointees...period.

Wow,
 I work with officials in Mexico and New Guinea fisheries and understand this syndrome only too well. To see it practiced in my own country is embarrassing and humbling.
 How do you suggest enlightened management policy to others when backward cash and carry politics runs our own policy?
 Steve

At least I got to witness the master at work this summer!!

I LOVE that first shot with the boater in the background   

I LOVE that first shot with the boater in the background   

I was about to say... the guy w/ his hands in his pockets is so hatin' on Abbie!!

Z

and trolling way too close to someone with a fish on

Article on South Delta low count numbers in Stockton Record:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071103/A_NEWS/711030313

I asked this same question of my "Estuary Ecology Team" from the Inter-agency Ecological Program in the San Francisco Estuary and got lots of feedback.  To summarize, there were lots of babies produced in 2003 and 2004....the fish that would be returning to spawn this year.  River flows where low, but emigration counts in the delta where good.   The "consensus" was that what ever happened it was more likely in the ocean, than the rivers or estuaries.  My hypothesis is that nearshore ocean condition last year and this year did not shape up to produce sufficient plankton blooms to attract the sardine/herring/anchovie bait fish, and the salmon.  Most of the salmon seemed to stay offshore 5-6miles and deep.  Staying offshore and deep probably led to poor feeding conditions overall and starvation or predation by the Humboldt squid or orca whales.  One fish and game biologist suggest the Orca issue, as in the last couple years we have seen a lot of Orcas in this area.  In any case, the best case scenario is that fish are staying out late and will show up...or will hold over for another year...but that's what we said last year.  More likely they are dead. So if you looking for that late season salmon, you might look to the lakes for Kokanee.

Jim   

Agreed 100%.  We had great smolt production over the last few years, and this years return sucks....super sucks. 

Wow,
 It does not portend well for the offspring of this season 3 YEARS FROM NOW does it?
 I think the salmon machine is being messed with too much to blame it on small, token seasonal events like hungrier then usual orcas or plankton hanging out to far or deep.
        Ruining habitat, dammed spawning rivers, ruining forage fish populations , relying on faux fish ladder fixes, "balancing" agriculture and lawn watering interests has us circling the drain.
 Some circling the drain years are better then others and that makes some happy.
         We need to practice the Canadian salmon ethic more here and teach bureaucrats the lost revenue total of a no-salmon future.
          Its a daunting task for us as opposed to the Canadians as they never built their biggest city in a desert. Nor do they require all the water in the world for nearby mega agriculture...
         Steve