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Topic: Preaching the PFD message ...  (Read 7259 times)

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racer414

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Stupid kills people, lots of people. But its job security for a lot of us.

As far as the education thing, how much education does one need? I think its pretty common sense that people sink. AND its called a Personal FLOTATION Device. If people can't put two and two together then natural selection might just catch up to them.

It is the individual's responsibility to take the necessary precautions to keep themselves safe, but most do not have that sentiment. They count on others. I have no issue with people making their own choices, as long as they take responsibility for their actions if/when something unexpected happens.

There are risks in everything we do, everyday. But there are certain steps and actions you can take to mitigate many of those risks. Wearing a PFD when on the water is one of them.

These recent deaths could have all been prevented. Simple as that.
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VK

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You're going to get me in trouble Darius.


No Sir I didn't mean that you are questioning or doubting anybody here lol. It my opinion that most of us prioritize safety first.



Risks too high?  Quantify please.

I wasn't referring to the statistic, I meant risking life is to high to be taken for granted or get overly confident. Some case I call it stubbornness ;)

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polepole

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You're going to get me in trouble Darius.


No Sir I didn't mean that you are questioning or doubting anybody here lol. It my opinion that most of us prioritize safety first.

I'll make the claim that 50% of the PFD's worn at an event aren't being worn correctly.  I'll make the claim that 25% of the participants at an event are not suitably dressed for immersion.  I have no real facts to back up those claims, but I am positive the numbers are significantly higher than zero.


Risks too high?  Quantify please.

I wasn't referring to the statistic, I meant risking life is to high to be taken for granted or get overly confident. Some case I call it stubbornness ;)

Risk is not an absolute thing.  At some point, it falls below having to worry about.  For instance, you have a higher chance of dying while jogging than while kayaking.   I think everyone should wear helmets while jogging.   :smt002

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you have a higher chance of dying while jogging than while kayaking.   I think everyone should wear helmets while jogging.   :smt002
-Allen

But then you are also increasing your chance of dying while kayaking if you are not wearing PFD  :smt002 :smt001
Live today for tomorrow's sake.
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As far as I can tell, rock climbing has similar (close enough to argue) death rates to kayaking. Yet Alex Honnold's recent free solo of El Capitan was more idolized than condemned. Why isn't there a similar "campaign" in the rock climbing world to require ropes and protection?

-Allen


Meh.....i think its badass.  But i also hold the pfd police in the same regard as i do jehova's witnesses, pushy liberasts and hippies.   
 



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polepole

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you have a higher chance of dying while jogging than while kayaking.   I think everyone should wear helmets while jogging.   :smt002
-Allen

But then you are also increasing your chance of dying while kayaking if you are not wearing PFD  :smt002 :smt001

Not necessarily.  That's the thing about odds like this, they don't apply uniformly across all situations.

-Allen


crash

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Allen with an exercise in sophistry.  Amusing.

you have a higher chance of dying while jogging than while kayaking.   I think everyone should wear helmets while jogging.   :smt002
-Allen

But then you are also increasing your chance of dying while kayaking if you are not wearing PFD  :smt002 :smt001

Not necessarily.  That's the thing about odds like this, they don't apply uniformly across all situations.

-Allen

Ceteris paribus it is a true statement, so long as the kayak is in a sufficient amount of water that you can drown in it. 

That is a different question than the question about PFD police and uninvited safety lectures, but let's not hide the ball, ok?
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Tote

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polepole

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Allen with an exercise in sophistry.  Amusing.

you have a higher chance of dying while jogging than while kayaking.   I think everyone should wear helmets while jogging.   :smt002
-Allen

But then you are also increasing your chance of dying while kayaking if you are not wearing PFD  :smt002 :smt001

Not necessarily.  That's the thing about odds like this, they don't apply uniformly across all situations.

-Allen

Ceteris paribus it is a true statement, so long as the kayak is in a sufficient amount of water that you can drown in it. 

That is a different question than the question about PFD police and uninvited safety lectures, but let's not hide the ball, ok?

Maybe if they understood the statistics of it, the PFD Police wouldn't uniformly address the various situations.  I've paddled in situations in which not wearing a PFD probably has less of a chance of dying than other situations in which I was wearing a PFD.  Chew on that for a bit!

-Allen


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Quote
Maybe if they understood the statistics

I can argue both sides but am usually in the "just wear it 'cause it's good impact protection and it has pockets" camp. But you brought up statistics, pole-pole.  :smt003


Mark Twain penned: "Figures often beguile me," he wrote, "particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"

But, bottom line , do what you think is the proper thing for the situation and conditions, but always remember, you have only: 1*
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:27:36 PM by Fisherman X »
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polepole

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I can argue both sides

I can argue both sides too.  And I can support aspects of both.  The more I talk about this, the more I realize I just don't like the safety cop approach I see becoming more of the norm these days.  The world is not black and white, it is shades of grey.  And everyone's grey is not the same.  Think about that for a bit!

-Allen


Tote

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99.9% of the time I wear a seat belt. If I'm moving from one driveway to another, which means I have to back out onto the street and pull into the other, I don't. But I do feel weird for not wearing it.
I feel naked w/o my PFD when on my kayak. 99.9% of he time I wear it.
Then there's always the embarrassment your family will face if you drowned because you weren't wearing it.
Like seat belts; no one ever needs a PFD....until they do.
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The world is not black and white, it is shades of grey.  And everyone's grey is not the same.


THIS!

This is something that until recently I thought I understood, now in midlife its really messing with me. :(

But back on topic:

I always wear a seat belt when driving, PFD when on a boat and wetsuit when in cold water. When I see someone in the bay with no wetsuit I want to try and tell them what I think they should do but typically figure it's not really my job to try and educate them.


On the other hand often in the past I fished the ocean alone and relied on fear to let me know my limit. These days with a kid I go out alone alot less and only in "safer conditions"  also when things freak me out I head in.

I think when people have less to lose they are willing to take more risks and the adrenalin helps them feel more alive (enjoy their life) and perhaps adjust their actions to reduce risk. When they have more to lose they are often more careful.

The telling people to wear their PDF thing is similar to telling them there are sharks in the ocean, they probably already know and you are likely to make them uncomfortable by reminding them (especially if you say it like you care). How you say it really will effect how they will respond.


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