NorCal Kayak Anglers
Dive Zone => Kayak Diving and Spearfishing => Topic started by: ex-kayaker on May 21, 2015, 03:58:17 PM
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I was reading Big Jim's post earlier today about a buddy that wisely decided to ditch his weight belt when he got into some trouble on a dive.
I've been in a few sticky situations in the past where I contemplated doing the same.....but letting a $100 bill sink to to the seafloor isn't always an easy decision to make.
I have about 6-7, 2lb dive weights laying around collecting dust. I'm offering them up as a replacement to any member here that has to ditch their belt this season. Hopefully having a backup will make the decision to ditch a little easier if you're caught in a bad spot. The only caveat, you gotta share your story with us.
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Heck yeah Art!!
If you end up needing more than the weight that Art has let me know and I will cover the difference.
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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That is SOO awesome of you to do this!
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Great idea.
If it were something that could get going, I'd pitch in for a dedicated insurance pool.
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That is a great idea.
Too bad I sold all my extra stuff last season. I had a bunch of weights.
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Also a good idea to dremel your phone number into one of your weights on the belt you wear. Then when you ditch it, it may come back to you. I think Mako will replace your belt if you ditch it?
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I think I have one or two weights too that someone used as weights in my crab traps when they borrowed them. I think one or two round ones, and one square one? I'll look for them this weekend.
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I might have a 4 pound square mold on Fort Bragg property in one of the sheds I gladly donate to the cause. don't know when I'll make it up there next but I'll make it a point to look for it
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Sorry for a threat jack. I lost mine at Coral st a while back. Anyone have one of this for sale or trade?
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I have about 35 pounds in bare bones lead dive weights I could donate to the cause for anyone up here who has to ditch their belt.
I almost ditched mine twice in one day a few years ago. I was diving from a beach north of Fort Bragg for abalone and had my brother, his son and his sons' two friends along.
The surf wasn't too bad, but a storm had just laid down, so vis was nil for about a hundred yards out. It was June and the kelp was grown out quite a bit. I told my brother that the boys should stay on the beach for this one and he and I could possibly truck out to where brown met blue and be fine.
The beach was not very long and had an arm of rock to the north and an arm of rock to the south, both covered with abs. The tide was coming in. I didn't realize it, but with the incoming tide, there was current that was pushing against the beach and washing north and south, back out along the rocks.
I got in first, having more experience with putting on the gear and headed straight out from the middle of the beach. It didn't seem too bad. I was making headway. When I'd glance around to get my bearings, I noticed that the current was moving me north towards the shallower rocks. I readjusted my heading, but was still moving a little more NW than I intended.
I had just topped a small swell and moving down the back side of it, everything turned purple. I felt a few kelp creepers wrap around me, and it was a fine time to realize that I had an extra 5 pounds to much on my belt. I couldn't back out so I crawfished upright and grabbed a breath as the next swell came over me. My feet hit bottom in only about 7 feet of water. So I stayed upright and bounced backward off the bottom while breaking individual strands of kelp until I was free enough to turn over and kick home, yelling at my brother to get back on shore, we'll head over to NoYo harbor.
That afternoon, we had a successful dive at the harbor, with everyone getting in some time in the water and getting some abs. I popped mine quickly so I could get in some spear time and help if needed. I was hanging out by the small jetty there and I'll be damned if the dang kelp didn't wrap me up in about four feet of water and keep me horizontal. I had one hand on a rock and scrabbled for about 30 seconds trying to untangle myself and eventually had to just grab a breath and pull myself up onto to rocks to break free of that stuff.
Both situations had the idea of ditching the belt pop into my head. I haven't dove in the summer since.
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Very true guys. I have come close twice but got out of trouble just as I was ready to release.
I have seen at least one spear shop say they would replace the weights at cost if someone bought their weights and ended up ditching it.
It's nice to remind people that ditching a belt could save your life.
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I had just topped a small swell and moving down the back side of it, everything turned purple. I felt a few kelp creepers wrap around me, and it was a fine time to realize that I had an extra 5 pounds to much on my belt. I couldn't back out so I crawfished upright and grabbed a breath as the next swell came over me. My feet hit bottom in only about 7 feet of water. So I stayed upright and bounced backward off the bottom while breaking individual strands of kelp until I was free enough to turn over and kick home, yelling at my brother to get back on shore, we'll head over to NoYo harbor.
That afternoon, we had a successful dive at the harbor, with everyone getting in some time in the water and getting some abs. I popped mine quickly so I could get in some spear time and help if needed. I was hanging out by the small jetty there and I'll be damned if the dang kelp didn't wrap me up in about four feet of water and keep me horizontal. I had one hand on a rock and scrabbled for about 30 seconds trying to untangle myself and eventually had to just grab a breath and pull myself up onto to rocks to break free of that stuff.
Both situations had the idea of ditching the belt pop into my head. I haven't dove in the summer since.
But what would have ditching your belt accomplished in these two situations? It sounded like both times you were tangled in kelp. Did you have a knife?
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Who needs lead to melt down? Got tons of it
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I didn't have a knife. The first time, I had too much weight and the bottom was deeper than I was tall. I had an instant spike of adrenalin and the buoyancy of releasing the belt seemed like the right thing, until my feet hit the bottom and I knew I could break kelp and back out.
The second time, I can say that a lot of it was exhaustion and again, the buoyancy came to mind. It's amazing how quick the mind can come to conclusions in a split second in those scenarios.
I can say that it was a lesson learned in respect, knowing precisely how much weight I need to use and my limitations.
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I had a situation last year where i was down about 20' and my leg cramped up bad. I don't have great breath control and had been down for a little bit. My first thought was head up of course. When I saw how far it still was and could only kick with one leg my hand went instantly to my belt, I was seconds away from ditching it not sure if I could make it back up. I made it and did not drop. I think for new divers it is a good idea to practice dropping it and knowing how to do it quickly just in case the need arises. I have been scuba diving for 30 years and know every bit of my equipment and how to get out of, and into it under water. I know where my octo is if my main goes bad too.
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Who needs lead to melt down? Got tons of it
Told you, Jenny Craig is the shizzle!
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But what would have ditching your belt accomplished in these two situations? It sounded like both times you were tangled in kelp. Did you have a knife?
I agree, I hear stories about divers ditching their belts but I can never figure it out for me. I guess if you're diving really shallow and using a lot of weight you could benefit from the extra buoyancy but on the other hand you wouldn't be as able in the water (to duck dive for instance). I guess the other scenario would be diving past 33'and getting less buoyant. I have heard stories but that is about as deep as I have ever dove.
The only time I ever ditched my belt was on the way in one time the kelp pulled my handy quick-release buckle (which I have never needed to pull on purpose in 16 years of diving) and I lost my belt in a kelp bed in 15' of perfectly calm water and couldn't dive to get it. I tried pulling myself down the kelp but they kept breaking. This was back when I used to wear the old 7/7 step in lol. I paid more for that belt than I did for the wetsuit!
These days I have my weight set where I'm buoyant at the surface on exhale. So dropping the belt on purpose never crosses my mind. And I have streamlined every part of my setup so I haven't snagged on kelp, float line, or anchor lines in years.
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But what would have ditching your belt accomplished in these two situations? It sounded like both times you were tangled in kelp. Did you have a knife?
I agree, I hear stories about divers ditching their belts but I can never figure it out for me.
Not everybody is a dive God. People will come across situations where it's appropriate to ditch a belt, especially newer divers that don't quite posses the comfort level in the water to get themselves out of hairy situations.
This thread is not about second guessing or criticizing people's actions. It's about pursuing the safest course of action and limiting the financial burden associated with it, thus making it an easier decision.
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This thread is not about second guessing or criticizing people's actions. It's about pursuing the safest course of action and limiting the financial burden associated with it, thus making it an easier decision.
Thanks ex-kayaker, I agree exactly with everything except the implication that I an a dive god lol.
I think I rambled a little but my point is: I think the safest course of action which also limits the financial burden of losing your belt is to go much lighter on the weight. In that case the belt is not an item that makes your swim less safe. My diving experience includes my first dive ever. ..
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Even dive Gods can have a bad day. A lot of people have had close calls. I had a seal bite my fin and my ankle and could have pulled me under if he wanted to. Thinking back if I could have dropped weights they would have slid down and hit him on the head. Can't imagine him holding on after that.
I started diving with a lot more weight and started removing some as I got better at it and realized the negative buoyancy at depth. But the two times I almost ditched the belt was not related to carrying to much.
I mostly shore dive but do kayak dive and boat dive occasionally. Sometimes I swim long distances. One time I got slammed with a wave into a rock and my fin came off. A lot of kicking but I wasn't moving. It wasn't a panic situation but excessive kicking with no movement would have wore me out sooner or later and being more buoyant I believe would have gave me more time. Another time I swam out on a surf entry without my board or tube and the waves were coming in quicker than reported and faster and bigger than they looked from shore. I got a beating and got out and just could not catch my breath and felt sick. I thought it through and visualized where it was so I would at least be able to come back another day to recover it if I dropped it, but ended up making it back without having to. That was the only time I went out without something to rest on if something like that happened and won't go out without something in the future.
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But what would have ditching your belt accomplished in these two situations? It sounded like both times you were tangled in kelp. Did you have a knife?
I agree, I hear stories about divers ditching their belts but I can never figure it out for me.
Not everybody is a dive God. People will come across situations where it's appropriate to ditch a belt, especially newer divers that don't quite posses the comfort level in the water to get themselves out of hairy situations.
This thread is not about second guessing or criticizing people's actions. It's about pursuing the safest course of action and limiting the financial burden associated with it, thus making it an easier decision.
Not sure if that dive god comment was directed at me, but I'll clarify my questioning GrimKeeper's story. Pursuing the safest course of action starts with a calm but quick assessment of the predicament. I advocate for newer divers to "when in doubt, dump the belt" but I also think it's equally important for a diver to be familiar with his own gear and access the situation calmly. In his situation, if I read it correctly, he was tangled in kelp both times and if the kelp was not tangled on his belt, then dumping it wouldn't have freed him and even worse, it could have even given him a false sense of security allowing him to think he was safe.
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The reference to a dive God wasn't directed at anybody.....however, if anyone on this board is deserving of the title it's obviously trophy ab slayer angle. :)
I get what you were saying, there are clearly situations in which it won't help and actually make things worse.
I didn't start the thread to debate the merits of dumping a belt though.....it happens, it's not cheap, unfortunately the cost of lead is a consideration that people take into account when deciding whether or not they should ditch their belt.
I'm just offering up some spares so that cost is less of a factor.
If everybody wants, we can ask jim to split the thread and take the discussion to another thread specifically discussing situations where it's appropriate.
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The reference to a dive God wasn't directed at anybody.....however, if anyone on this board is deserving of the title it's obviously trophy ab slayer angle. :)
I get what you were saying, there are clearly situations in which it won't help and actually make things worse.
I didn't start the thread to debate the merits of dumping a belt though.....it happens, it's not cheap, unfortunately the cost of lead is a consideration that people take into account when deciding whether or not they should ditch their belt.
I'm just offering up some spares so that cost is less of a factor.
If everybody wants, we can ask jim to split the thread and take the discussion to another thread specifically discussing situations where it's appropriate.
I understand your offer of lead. It's very generous. I also have a few weights I could offer up as well.
My daughter started diving and likes it, so I've had to rethink safety and how to train her on safety.
Of course Angle is a dive god, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once, so I'm pretty sure I'm at least a demigod.
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Angle said you're under performance review to maintain demigod status. Said he's willing to overlook all the gut shot perch but diving less often than ex-kayaker is a rather felonious offense.
If you want any of those 1lb weights for your daughter, I have a few laying around also.
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Pursuing the safest course of action starts with a calm but quick assessment of the predicament. I advocate for newer divers to "when in doubt, dump the belt" but I also think it's equally important for a diver to be familiar with his own gear and access the situation calmly.
In agreement with Nate on this one.
I was speaking to a newb diver this past weekend and he told me that he almost always contemplates dumping his belt :smt009 That's telling me he is not comfortable diving.
There is definitely a time to do it but it shouldn't be your only out.
Looking forward to a post worthy of your weights.
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In agreement with Nate on this one.
I'm in agreement with this guy VVV.....he's smart........and handsome :)
take the discussion to another thread specifically discussing situations where it's appropriate.
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Since we're on the subject of dumping weights, I thought about my safety habits and came up with one that often utilized (when I still dove).
In SoCal or Mex, I'd sometimes make deeper and longer drops most often to free a fish. On the way up I would unbuckle my belt and hold onto either end in each hand all the way to the surface. On the surface I'd do my recovery breaths and once I felt comfortable , I'd just reinsert the belt.
The reasoning was that while coming up, if I black out, my hands would release the belt. I've never had to prove this theory and in recent years I haven't been on dives that required that kind of precaution.
Nate
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Angle said you're under performance review to maintain demigod status. Said he's willing to overlook all the gut shot perch but diving less often than ex-kayaker is a rather felonious offense.
If you want any of those 1lb weights for your daughter, I have a few laying around also.
ex-kayaker may have to change his name. I saw that he lovingly restored a kayak.
She only needs 6# for now. I have enough for her, but thanks.
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I'm in agreement with this guy VVV.....he's smart........and handsome :)
Not bad for a 45 year old :smt044 :smt044 :smt044
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Did you see the downward pointing arrows......I was referring to myself :smt004
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Did you see the downward pointing arrows......I was referring to myself :smt004
So was I...........The memory is the first thing to go :smt044 :smt044 :smt044
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The whole thing here with ditch the belt, save your life and a friend will donate weights to the guy who ditches is kind of like the "here is a life jacket for you to use and return program" like we see for river rafters and swimmers provided at the camp hosts trailer or the life guard tower.
This a good idea, wonder how it could expand like the life jacket use and return program.
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This is why ncka is so damn :smt004
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I'm in, if a fund is set up for reimbursing divers who ditch their belts. Only request I have is that they share what happened with the rest of us so we can all learn from their experience.
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I would be happy to contribute to this, either with cash or spare weights. Great idea. A lifeguard at Salt Point once told me that most of the drowned divers they recovered were still wearing their weight belts and they probably would have survived if they'd dropped them.
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It would be really neat if we started to donate more than weights and money. I was thinking of all the people who have useful scrap metal. If we could compile that and start making weights, that would be cheaper than buying new ones as well.
https://www.ebay.com/i/292451781026?chn=ps
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I see on the DAN insurance (highest paid plan - Guardian) that loss of dive gear is covered. Does anyone know if that means speargun, float, etc and how it works? I've never used the insurance, but have had it for 2 years.
https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/landing/guardian/home201404/index.html
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It's amazing how the freedive community looks after one-another.
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I see on the DAN insurance (highest paid plan - Guardian) that loss of dive gear is covered. Does anyone know if that means speargun, float, etc and how it works? I've never used the insurance, but have had it for 2 years.
https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/landing/guardian/home201404/index.html
Covers weight belt but def not speargun. Thats at least what I have heard when dealing with DAN. But if anyone ever has to ditch their belt I can donate some weight
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Yes mako has a program. And the start of this thread was a generous offer and idea that could be doable.
Keep it up. It a comunity
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If ditching your weights saves your life I'll gladly donate. I've got lead and a melting pot you make a mold I'll pour you what ever you want.
All I ask is that your honest and only take me up on this if you actually had to ditch.
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I do not dive, but my grandfather did. I’ve got his old dive bag and weights I will likely never use. Anyone who needs weight is welcome to them. Located in Concord
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I do not dive, but my grandfather did. I’ve got his old dive bag and weights I will likely never use. Anyone who needs weight is welcome to them. Located in Concord
I'm always looking for spare lead if you'd like to get rid of it for cheap. Dive instructor and always need it for students. I've dropped many weight belts, and lost a few, but all in the name of training.
I have heard a few stories of scuba divers being saved by dropping their weight belts, but not without permanent injury from DCS, but lot different with those depths/wetsuit compression and the extra weight of gear. Never a freediving or spearfishing story, you're so much more streamline from downcurrents and such.