Is it time to reduce Rockfish limits?

Cal F&G would get so much pressure from party boats owners but what the heck if the fish size and population is shrinking its bad for even the party boats.
Hey if populations increase and the fishing is healthy then up it back to 10. They change ling cod size and limits back and forth all the time. Some fish are apparently not doing so good the blacks are now cut to 3 but now you can keep 1 canary so we can change it any time.
Yes the loss of kelp is real and this is huge issue for me I used to curse all the kelp. You practically had to crawl over the kelp to get to the dive spots. Fisk Mill was always like that towards the end of summer. I was just at (Stillwater north) and I saw no kelp none. Now I ain't no biologists but I can tell you for the abalone this ain't good and I would bet it ain't so good for the fish either.
Why wait till its a real problem? If fishing gets really good again just change it back to 10. Not a big deal.

Willha

Alaska does very will with balancing commercial fishing and maintaining health fish stocks. The state has a direct monetary interest in doing so. Salmon stocks off California face a far greater threat from agriculture  than from the few salmon trollers left. The war over water in California has been largely won by central valley farmers and the threat of them getting even more water, especially under the currrent administration, is real. At one time there were large runs of salmon in the San Joachim river. No more. Water diversion. Coho or siver salmon were abundant off the California coast in the 1960's. No more. They more than King salmon require cool flowing water for survival. Logging and withdrawal of water for urban and ag were more responsible than commercial fishing for the drastic drop in numbers. If spawing conditions are right it does not take too many salmon to repopulate but even if a huge school enters a river and there are low warm water conditions very few salmon will hatch and live to return to the sea.

This year the commercial salmon fishing season north of Pt Reyes didn't open till August. Sport salmon fishing begin in May with a size limit of 22 inches compared with the commercial size limit of 27 inches. Who do you think caught more fish, sport fleet or commercial?

I fish in Oregon often enough.  They manage their rockfish fishery better.

7 RCG limit.  Sublimits for minor inshore species, blacks, and cabezon.  OPEN YEAR ROUND, but closed to cabezon retention Jan. 1-June 30.  Mandatory use of descenders.

I like all of those things, with the possible exception of the cabezon closure.  Although some Oregon ports have a really nice cabezon fishery.

I am fortunate to live close to the ocean. I dont freeze my catch unless its worth it, (halibut, wsb, salmon) I brought home one Blue RF last tuesday. It had bad Barotrauma, so I was obligated to keep it. It fed my family. The California fisheries and game can not support over harvesting. If you are gonna live off of it you are in the wrong state, there are too many people takng more than their share of fish and game. My 2 cents is lower it, or just make it harder with sublimits. No more than 3 of any type. Just an idea.

Or maybe adjust the sights on Big Jim's spear gun.

Besides what the heck is 3 rockfish more that's nothing we don't need them just keep the bigger ones even better let some of the bigger ones go. Here is another way of looking at it: 100 fishermen 3 less each that's 300 fish now if you have a 7 fish limit that 300 saved divided by 7 equals 42.8 more limits for other fishermen.
So for every 200 fishermen that's 100 more limits to catch. Right? Hows my math...LOL

Besides what the heck is 3 rockfish more that's nothing we don't need them just keep the bigger ones even better let some of the bigger ones go. Here is another way of looking at it: 100 fishermen 3 less each that's 300 fish now if you have a 7 fish limit that 300 saved divided by 7 equals 42.8 more limits for other fishermen.
So for every 200 fishermen that's 100 more limits to catch. Right? Hows my math...LOL

The math may be fine, but the thought behind it sort of implies that we'll still catch all those fish.  Not sure how that would help the resource.

Limits are set in support of annual take goals as determined by the PFMC.  You wanna do something for the rockfish, change the annual take goals.  Limits will then change accordingly in support of those goals.  They likely won't be changed due to "feel good initiatives".

-Allen

In all honesty, I wouldn't mind a smaller limit on Rock fish.  AND I would love for there to be a law that prohibits commercial fishing.  Me personally have never and will never purchase fish or any seafood from a store. I understand that that would in-turn affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs but sport fishing will never in a million years affect the numbers if we were to prohibit commercial fishing.  I've seen first hand 60 pound King salmon caught commercially and thrown overboard dead.  If we were to just say goodbye to commercial fishing it would greatly increase the amount of poaching but our oceans would finally be able to catch up on years and years of Raping.  When I was 13-14 my grandparents and I would limit out on Coho everyday we went out, we could drop a shrimp fly rig down with 5 flys and have 5 fish on before you flipped the bail.  I would kill to be able to fish like that again.

To be fair, here in CA, sport fisherman take way more black rockfish than commercials.  It's been that way for the past 50+ years.

-Allen

Besides what the heck is 3 rockfish more that's nothing we don't need them just keep the bigger ones even better let some of the bigger ones go. Here is another way of looking at it: 100 fishermen 3 less each that's 300 fish now if you have a 7 fish limit that 300 saved divided by 7 equals 42.8 more limits for other fishermen.
So for every 200 fishermen that's 100 more limits to catch. Right? Hows my math...LOL

The math may be fine, but the thought behind it sort of implies that we'll still catch all those fish.  Not sure how that would help the resource.

Limits are set in support of annual take goals as determined by the PFMC.  You wanna do something for the rockfish, change the annual take goals.  Limits will then change accordingly in support of those goals.  They likely won't be changed due to "feel good initiatives".

-Allen

The PFMC target numbers for Oregon assumes 10 fish limits.  Oregon keeps the 7 fish limit to allow year round fishing for rockfish.  Granted the farther north you go the fewer fishable days there are, but california has damn near year round fishing down south.  Yelloweye is our constraining fish (it is also Oregon's), the answer to that is depth limits during the summer and early fall, which we just started doing here.

As for the slant of srdave's complaint, isn't that supposed to be what the MPAs are for?

What if people were required to have a descending device on board and actually use it… I've never seen more floaters than the one time I went on the new sea angler.. a very sad sight…

In all honesty, I wouldn't mind a smaller limit on Rock fish.  AND I would love for there to be a law that prohibits commercial fishing.  Me personally have never and will never purchase fish or any seafood from a store. I understand that that would in-turn affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs but sport fishing will never in a million years affect the numbers if we were to prohibit commercial fishing.  I've seen first hand 60 pound King salmon caught commercially and thrown overboard dead.  If we were to just say goodbye to commercial fishing it would greatly increase the amount of poaching but our oceans would finally be able to catch up on years and years of Raping.  When I was 13-14 my grandparents and I would limit out on Coho everyday we went out, we could drop a shrimp fly rig down with 5 flys and have 5 fish on before you flipped the bail.  I would kill to be able to fish like that again.

To be fair, here in CA, sport fisherman take way more black rockfish than commercials.  It's been that way for the past 50+ years.

-Allen

I would never want to debate you, you're older and much wiser lol.  But this year alone there are nearly 4,500 commercial fishing vessels off the coast of california.  Each allowed to take 1,200 pounds of fish ever 2 months.  Its not just the fish that they are coming in with that's affecting the population its the weight that doesnt get counted that those boats kill of in the process.

The PFMC target numbers for Oregon assumes 10 fish limits.  Oregon keeps the 7 fish limit to allow year round fishing for rockfish.  Granted the farther north you go the fewer fishable days there are, but california has damn near year round fishing down south.  Yelloweye is our constraining fish (it is also Oregon's), the answer to that is depth limits during the summer and early fall, which we just started doing here.

From the PFMC's latest assessment Black Rockfish Assessment.  I'm using Black Rockfish as a proxy for all rockfish.  That thinking may be flawed.

Oregon had no recreational bag limits for marine fishes until 1976 when the state established a
25-fish limit. In 1978 the state established a daily limit of 15 fish for each angler’s combined bag
of rockfish, cabezon and greenling, which stayed in effect until 1994 when the state established a
10-fish-per-angler daily bag limit specifically for black rockfish. Following the early closure of
the fishing season for black rockfish in 2004, the daily bag limit for black rockfish was dropped
to 5 fish at the start of 2005 but was increased in-season to 6 fish. The per-angler daily bag limit
was 6 fish during 2006 and 2007, 5 fish at the start of 2008 and increased in-season to 6 fish, 6
fish at the start of 2009 and increased in-season to 7 fish where it has remained since.
The goal of Oregon’s sport fishery management is to maintain year-round fishing opportunities.
In-season adjustments to regulations can be made more restrictive or less restrictive, depending
on circumstances and the prospects for early attainment of harvest caps. Seasonal depth
restrictions (e.g., inside 30 fathoms April 1 to September 30) are one tool used regularly in recent
years to control the fishery, driven largely by the need to avoid bycatch of the primary rebuilding
species, canary rockfish and yelloweye rockfish.

In all honesty, I wouldn't mind a smaller limit on Rock fish.  AND I would love for there to be a law that prohibits commercial fishing.  Me personally have never and will never purchase fish or any seafood from a store. I understand that that would in-turn affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs but sport fishing will never in a million years affect the numbers if we were to prohibit commercial fishing.  I've seen first hand 60 pound King salmon caught commercially and thrown overboard dead.  If we were to just say goodbye to commercial fishing it would greatly increase the amount of poaching but our oceans would finally be able to catch up on years and years of Raping.  When I was 13-14 my grandparents and I would limit out on Coho everyday we went out, we could drop a shrimp fly rig down with 5 flys and have 5 fish on before you flipped the bail.  I would kill to be able to fish like that again.

To be fair, here in CA, sport fisherman take way more black rockfish than commercials.  It's been that way for the past 50+ years.

-Allen

I would never want to debate you, you're older and much wiser lol.  But this year alone there are nearly 4,500 commercial fishing vessels off the coast of california.  Each allowed to take 1,200 pounds of fish ever 2 months.  Its not just the fish that they are coming in with that's affecting the population its the weight that doesnt get counted that those boats kill of in the process.

Bycatch is accounted for in the rockfish allocations.  We've been borrowing blacks from commercial fishierman's allotment for the last few years and that's why we are reduced to 3 fish.  There aren't any more to borrow and virgin biomass is getting depleted to trigger points.

In all honesty, I wouldn't mind a smaller limit on Rock fish.  AND I would love for there to be a law that prohibits commercial fishing.  Me personally have never and will never purchase fish or any seafood from a store. I understand that that would in-turn affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs but sport fishing will never in a million years affect the numbers if we were to prohibit commercial fishing.  I've seen first hand 60 pound King salmon caught commercially and thrown overboard dead.  If we were to just say goodbye to commercial fishing it would greatly increase the amount of poaching but our oceans would finally be able to catch up on years and years of Raping.  When I was 13-14 my grandparents and I would limit out on Coho everyday we went out, we could drop a shrimp fly rig down with 5 flys and have 5 fish on before you flipped the bail.  I would kill to be able to fish like that again.

To be fair, here in CA, sport fisherman take way more black rockfish than commercials.  It's been that way for the past 50+ years.

-Allen

I would never want to debate you, you're older and much wiser lol.  But this year alone there are nearly 4,500 commercial fishing vessels off the coast of california.  Each allowed to take 1,200 pounds of fish ever 2 months.  Its not just the fish that they are coming in with that's affecting the population its the weight that doesnt get counted that those boats kill of in the process.

Well, are they all fishing rockfish?  Because they're not doing a very good job if they are.  The stats come from the PFMC Black Rockfish Assessment doc.  In other fisheries, the portion of commercial take is different.

-Allen

Willha

Alaska does very will with balancing commercial fishing and maintaining health fish stocks. The state has a direct monetary interest in doing so. Salmon stocks off California face a far greater threat from agriculture  than from the few salmon trollers left. The war over water in California has been largely won by central valley farmers and the threat of them getting even more water, especially under the currrent administration, is real. At one time there were large runs of salmon in the San Joachim river. No more. Water diversion. Coho or siver salmon were abundant off the California coast in the 1960's. No more. They more than King salmon require cool flowing water for survival. Logging and withdrawal of water for urban and ag were more responsible than commercial fishing for the drastic drop in numbers. If spawing conditions are right it does not take too many salmon to repopulate but even if a huge school enters a river and there are low warm water conditions very few salmon will hatch and live to return to the sea.

This year the commercial salmon fishing season north of Pt Reyes didn't open till August. Sport salmon fishing begin in May with a size limit of 22 inches compared with the commercial size limit of 27 inches. Who do you think caught more fish, sport fleet or commercial?

The fishing adventure i was speaking of was out of Port Hardy BC.  Their fishing regs on commercial fishing are a joke from what the F&G in Canada have told me.

The PFMC target numbers for Oregon assumes 10 fish limits.  Oregon keeps the 7 fish limit to allow year round fishing for rockfish.  Granted the farther north you go the fewer fishable days there are, but california has damn near year round fishing down south.  Yelloweye is our constraining fish (it is also Oregon's), the answer to that is depth limits during the summer and early fall, which we just started doing here.

From the PFMC's latest assessment Black Rockfish Assessment.  I'm using Black Rockfish as a proxy for all rockfish.  That thinking may be flawed.

Oregon had no recreational bag limits for marine fishes until 1976 when the state established a
25-fish limit. In 1978 the state established a daily limit of 15 fish for each angler’s combined bag
of rockfish, cabezon and greenling, which stayed in effect until 1994 when the state established a
10-fish-per-angler daily bag limit specifically for black rockfish. Following the early closure of
the fishing season for black rockfish in 2004, the daily bag limit for black rockfish was dropped
to 5 fish at the start of 2005 but was increased in-season to 6 fish. The per-angler daily bag limit
was 6 fish during 2006 and 2007, 5 fish at the start of 2008 and increased in-season to 6 fish, 6
fish at the start of 2009 and increased in-season to 7 fish where it has remained since.
The goal of Oregon’s sport fishery management is to maintain year-round fishing opportunities.
In-season adjustments to regulations can be made more restrictive or less restrictive, depending
on circumstances and the prospects for early attainment of harvest caps. Seasonal depth
restrictions (e.g., inside 30 fathoms April 1 to September 30) are one tool used regularly in recent
years to control the fishery, driven largely by the need to avoid bycatch of the primary rebuilding
species, canary rockfish and yelloweye rockfish.

It's good enough for this discussion I think.  At least as it relates to norcal.