NorCal Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing Zone => General Fishing Tips => Topic started by: bigtuna on September 05, 2017, 03:48:35 PM
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Hey all, I wanna bounce some questions/ideas off everyone. I have a tandem island with full size canon manual downriggers on each side. I use the downriggers to fish for salmon around here in the Monterey bay as well as in Sekiu WA and they work great. Generally, the fish are down deep at least 60 FOW so 10 or 12 pound weights do the trick quite well.
This summer, I started fishing in HMB for the first time using the same setup. However, I'll occasionally bring along a third fisherperson and we will run a deep six diver off the back as well as the two rods on the downriggers. Deep six diver @ 40 pulls so about 20 feet down(?). The deep six diver has been consistently hooking up 3 times more than the downriggers. The only difference in the presentation is that the deep six uses an inline flasher instead of the 11" hotspots on the downriggers. Both UV. I run the downriggers at about 20-30 FOW.
I realize the fish are much shallower at half moon bay making the the deep six diver a popular choice among kayakers. But why don't the downriggers also hook up when at 20-30 fow? Inline flashers vs hotspots? I doubt it. Any other ideas? Perhaps its just coincidental, but I'm tempted to throw another deep six down there instead of the downrigger... Or perhaps pick up a few inline flashers?
I do use a 2hp motor, perhaps the motor is spooking the fish off the downrigger lures since they are closer to the boat (directly underneath) than the deep six. I've tried running the lures further from the downrigger clip to get them away from the boat, but then I risk tangles..
Any other ideas?
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are you still catching fish when you're not using the d6? are you doing just fine?
My guess is that since the deep 6 is the furthest back from the boat, the fish are seeing that bait as the "weak" link as its the furthest back, and thus attacking that one first as they go by. especially if you're using the same bait. you will get reaction bites as lines pass the other two, but the "chase" bites will often go to the furthest line back as it's the weak one in the herd.
Also, those HMB salmon are real shallow. 20' is pretty common.
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I noticed the same at HMB.
I hookup more when I have a sliding sinker setup (10oz) than my downrigger (only 1lbs). I think it's a direct correlation with the location of the fish on the water column. When I raise my downrigger up, my hookup ration on the downrigger also went up.
I use the same leader length/setup on both downrigger and sliding sinker. On the downrigger setup, I let out about 25-30 feet of line before I clip the line. About 35-40 pulls for the sliding sinker.
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Interesting! So the very first time we were out at HMB we had three people and the d6 performed really well, since then I've always run the d6 even if I only have 2 people. So I can't say whether we do just as good with just the downriggers...
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One of the reason why I don't like a diver is that I can't be sure on how depth (call me bad at math, not really, but we go with that). However, AlexB did convince me that dropping lead to the ocean floor is not a good idea in the long run, that's why I have a downrigger.
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I suspect it might be related to the big 11" flashers versus the inline (spinning) flashers.
Are you trolling fast enough that the 11" Hot Spots are rolling like they're supposed to? Or are they just kicking back and forth?
Either way, many experienced salmon fishermen will tell you to ditch (or at least downsize) the flashers later in the season. "Straight bait" (no flasher) is a very effective method this time of year. Same with the small spinning flashers.
Here's my theory... with 3 people in the boat, you probably aren't trolling fast enough to eat the proper action from the 11" Hot Spots. Even if you are trolling fast enough, I would recommend ditching them or swapping them out for small the small spinning flashers that are already catching you more fish. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
I don't think the difference in hookup frequency is related to how you get your offering down to the strike zone.
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So there's my rambling response... That's what happens when I write a post a little at a time between distractions over the course of an hour....
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That's interesting to know some folks ditch the flashers. We're definitely trolling fast enough. The 2hp 2stroke has no problem moving the boat even with three people and three lines in the water. I keep the speed around 2.5-3mph.
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Oh, right. Motor...
Big flashers like the 11" Hot Spot seem to be much more popular in Monterey Bay than up north in HMB/Pacifica/Marin. I go with no flasher, small spinning flasher, or sometimes a small Luhr Jenson dodger.
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Crazy has been getting hit Everytime on the downrigger. I caught one fish on the Dr and that was it. I think you find what works and get the fish to bite...then don't stop. May need to try the dd6 to see if they bite. That is based on "if" I go back to hmb. LoL. I Suk at that place.
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all my fish this year has been on the DR. I do tend to let out 50-60 and even go to 70-80 before clipping it on the DR. Not sure if that makes a difference. Since my first keeper a month ago, each time I have been out I have caught salmon :) hope to continue on the next hunt
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I would downsizing your gear. Go with a smaller flasher or dodger or even straight bait this late in the season.
I only use double deep 6. And to get down to 25' going between 2mph to 3mph, I only do 30 pulls. The math is pretty easy if u do pulls in multiples of 10. If your line is about 30 degrees from vertical, multiply the amount of line out by 0.9 for your depth. And for 45 degrees, multiply by 0.7.
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Interesting...
If you're playing w/ set backs & didn't notice the difference then, maybe fish are actually biting shallow & your Deep Six is fishing shallower than you think, or your downrigger is fishing deeper than you think...?
Even you gave pulls (2ft), depends on speed might be fishing shallower than you think. Also, one crank of Downrigger isn't necessary foot (like a reel how big your downrigger is or how full the line is in the spool).
But for downrigger, I can see on Fishfinder, so kinda nice.
Fish has been pretty shallow in HMB & people seen them on the surface time to time...
but this is just my guess.
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Thanks for all the tips folks! When I mentioned I was playing with the setbacks in my original post, I think I was being a bit conservative. I was only playing between 10-30 ft. Which worked well for me when I fished Puget Sound and monterey bay where the ball was 60-130ft down. But here at HMB, the fish are so shallow I'm thinking my motor is spooking them. I tried 50/60+ ft plus and the line started hooking up!
I researched a bit on the web, seems like folks have a 100ft rule. 25 ft down, 75ft setback; 50ft down, 50ft setback, etc etc. I'll try that this weekend...
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I would downsizing your gear. Go with a smaller flasher or dodger or even straight bait this late in the season.
I only use double deep 6. And to get down to 25' going between 2mph to 3mph, I only do 30 pulls. The math is pretty easy if u do pulls in multiples of 10. If your line is about 30 degrees from vertical, multiply the amount of line out by 0.9 for your depth. And for 45 degrees, multiply by 0.7.
Huh. When I go 2-3 mph, my line is at a 30 degree angle to the water surface, not 30 degrees off vertical. If I let out 30 feet of line, my bait is down 15 feet (definitely in the strike zone out at HMB).
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I would downsizing your gear. Go with a smaller flasher or dodger or even straight bait this late in the season.
I only use double deep 6. And to get down to 25' going between 2mph to 3mph, I only do 30 pulls. The math is pretty easy if u do pulls in multiples of 10. If your line is about 30 degrees from vertical, multiply the amount of line out by 0.9 for your depth. And for 45 degrees, multiply by 0.7.
Huh. When I go 2-3 mph, my line is at a 30 degree angle to the water surface, not 30 degrees off vertical. If I let out 30 feet of line, my bait is down 15 feet (definitely in the strike zone out at HMB).
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I use the biggest dd6 model, 7oz #2. And the cosine of 60 degrees is 0.5. So the math works for 60 degrees also. But my line is never that far back.
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I would downsizing your gear. Go with a smaller flasher or dodger or even straight bait this late in the season.
I only use double deep 6. And to get down to 25' going between 2mph to 3mph, I only do 30 pulls. The math is pretty easy if u do pulls in multiples of 10. If your line is about 30 degrees from vertical, multiply the amount of line out by 0.9 for your depth. And for 45 degrees, multiply by 0.7.
Huh. When I go 2-3 mph, my line is at a 30 degree angle to the water surface, not 30 degrees off vertical. If I let out 30 feet of line, my bait is down 15 feet (definitely in the strike zone out at HMB).
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I use the biggest dd6 model, 7oz #2. And the cosine of 60 degrees is 0.5. So the math works for 60 degrees also. But my line is never that far back.
Ah, gotcha. I use the smaller 7-oz version. Makes sense that your line would be closer to vertical with more planing surface.
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