NEED HELP--Took my Hobie Island to dealer and they DAMAGED IT

You should work it out with the CCK.  I know its frustrating for you with your new TI damaged.
Be level headed and work out something mutual.  I think bashing somebody with the other party not presenting their side is not cool.

+1

The poor guy asks for help, and you call it bashing?  CCK has accounts on NCKA, so they can come speak their peace if they want to.  I for one think it's great when people let us know that they had a bad experience, so I can choose to spend my money elsewhere....

You should work it out with the CCK.  I know its frustrating for you with your new TI damaged.
Be level headed and work out something mutual.  I think bashing somebody with the other party not presenting their side is not cool.

This is their chance to present their side.  If they read the post, then they have a chance to respond, and if they respond with their shop account then we can all see how their customer service works.   The OP already gave them a chance at direct customer service by contacting them first.  At some point, the dispute should become public.

I say the same thing about any shop.  If they want to sell to our community then they need to do some public relations from time to time.  That's just the nature of the game.

And the "mutual" compromise should be - they fix the damage they caused, if they caused it, to the customer's full satisfaction.  Period.  That's not a minor dent that will just pop out, and the guy is following the process he's supposed to be following.  They shouldn't just do a makeshift fix that makes the kayak less structurally safe.

You should work it out with the CCK.  I know its frustrating for you with your new TI damaged.
Be level headed and work out something mutual.  I think bashing somebody with the other party not presenting their side is not cool.

It was not Afgvegas who named the dealer.

The poor guy asks for help, and you call it bashing?  CCK has accounts on NCKA, so they can come speak their peace if they want to.  I for one think it's great when people let us know that they had a bad experience, so I can choose to spend my money elsewhere....

+1

Hey Afgvegas,

Just saw this post. I'll pm you

Sorry to hear about your TI Alex!  Hopefully CCK will make it right.  I'll be stopping by the Oakland shop sometime this week to pickup a few things and will make sure to bring this up. 

Sorry to hear about your TI Alex!  Hopefully CCK will make it right.  I'll be stopping by the Oakland shop sometime this week to pickup a few things and will make sure to bring this up.

Dude, that is ncka right there

I once represented the Oakland and Pillar point sites, back when, and would hope that the SOP of back in the day still might apply now. 

Just curious how we're you storing and transporting the Ti
For me I trailer my AI and there is not any why damage like that could occur as the main hull is protected by the outriggers if your trailering you may have a stronger argument

 It's a hard battle once it's left there shop ever rented a car rember the walk around
Best o luck man

You should work it out with the CCK.  I know its frustrating for you with your new TI damaged.
Be level headed and work out something mutual.  I think bashing somebody with the other party not presenting their side is not cool.

He is asking for help.  We are the ones bashing.  LOL.

And as mentioned CCK has contact through this forum, they can present 'their side' anytime they want.   And I hope they would.

Minimum when a shop takes a kayak in, they certainly shold make a note of obvious damage especially this severe and bring it customer's atention "just in case." Don't ya think?  That's what I'd do.  When I ran an auto body shop we did that al the time.  guy gets hit, insurance is covering rt front fender, you bet I list and make drawing of all the other dents and scratches on the car.  Small claims court always seems to favor the consumer. So, we were very careful.

Bushy

Alex and all - First, thank you Mel for bringing this to my attention.



Alex purchased a new TI from us. From Alex and as far as I know here is the movement history of the boat:
1) loaded onto trailer after purchase for journey home
2) used once requiring offloading and reloading trailer
3) driven to CCK Oakland for rudder handle adjustment
4) unloaded from trailer onto Hobie bubble wrap packaging material
5) moved from 4 above to protected padded outdoor storage position
6) loaded from 5 onto boat cart for 50' transport to work station
7) lifted from boat cart to saw horses for rudder handle adjustment
lifted from saw horses to boat cart after work completion
9) rolled 50' on cart back to protected padded outdoor storage position
10) loaded onto trailer (in rain) for journey home
damage discovered
11) driven to CCK for inspection
12) unloaded from trailer to protected padded outdoor storage position
13) repeat 6)
14) repeat 7) for Keith's inspection
15) repeat after inspection
16) repeat 9) where boat is today as I type

I have no knowledge of what happened to the boat when not in our possession. While in CCK's possession the boat was in a safe, static and padded position at all times EXCEPT when lifted on and off the cart, while rolling and when lifted on and off the saw horses. The boat neither fell off the cart nor the saw horses. There is no evidence of drop damage and corresponding nicks and gouges from a drop or resulting abrasion damage from a drop and drag situation. There is no evidence because it did not happen.

The damage to the boat was caused by 1) motion (series of closely spaced short abrasions) and 2) impact and motion (dent with what appears to be a single random scratch originating and spreading from the impact). I do not know how either of these occurred but they did not and could not possibly have occurred while and where the boat was in our possession. Without knowing how it happened my best guess is vibration caused (possibly trailer related) and wave action against an obstacle. CCK did not transport the boat other than described above and it was stored in a static position while in our possession as it is today.

Alex is 1000% sure he didn't cause the damage. I believe he feels that way but I cannot connect the dots on how anyone can get to that point of view. I am 100% sure, based solely on the damage evidence, that CCK is not responsible for it. The Security video Alex mentions has nothing to do with my analysis, the type of damage speaks for itself. (The video showed nothing which is exactly what I expected after seeing the damage itself and where it is on the boat.) CCK did not damage Alex's boat, we couldn't have. Well, I suppose...

...either myself, JT, Tammy, Greg, Sou, Shawna or Ben could have taken our drill or dremel tool and intentionally gouged his boat; then, a couple of the stronger lads could have picked up this 124lb beast, found a nasty protuberance somewhere at Jack London Square and slammed it hard against it causing the dent, then as a afterthought, moved the boat randomly against the protuberance to get the scratch effect. So, yeah, sure, I guess we could have done it...

I have offered Alex to fix his boat as best we can for Free, FREE. It won't be perfect but will be cosmetically better than it is now. The damage is minor, superficial and non-structural. It is not the 1st time we have provided such service. Alex is one of half a dozen or so customers over the years who have suffered either unwittingly (Alex's case - I truly believe he does not know how it happened) or did something dumb which resulted in damage to their recent 5-10K purchase. It's called Good Customer Service to provide such service at no charge after a good customer invests so heavily in my shop.

Anyhow, it's late. That's what happened. I hope this can be resolved quickly so Alex can get back on the water soon.

Cheers - Keith

Alex is sure he didn't do it and has an explanation for his assumptions, Keith is sure it didn't happen at the shop and has a longer explanation for his assumptions,

I find this paragraph particularly insightful being written by the business,

 Well, I suppose...

...either myself, JT, Tammy, Greg, Sou, Shawna or Ben could have taken our drill or dremel tool and intentionally gouged his boat; then, a couple of the stronger lads could have picked up this 124lb beast, found a nasty protuberance somewhere at Jack London Square and slammed it hard against it causing the dent, then as a afterthought, moved the boat randomly against the protuberance to get the scratch effect. So, yeah, sure, I guess we could have done it...

  Kieth,   Great explaination,,, Thanks.   Exactly what I figured too.    Better Re-post that over here too....

  http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=76654.msg878280#new

Alex is sure he didn't do it and has an explanation for his assumptions, Keith is sure it didn't happen at the shop and has a longer explanation for his assumptions,

I find this paragraph particularly insightful being written by the business..

[/quote]

 Insightful??   you just stirring up shit?

           I suppose he could have been parked somewhere,,, and a truck backed into it..         

Alex is sure he didn't do it and has an explanation for his assumptions, Keith is sure it didn't happen at the shop and has a longer explanation for his assumptions,

I find this paragraph particularly insightful being written by the business..

 Insightful??   you just stirring up shit?

           I suppose he could have been parked somewhere,,, and a truck backed into it..         
[/quote]

It's patronizing and more than just a little obnoxious. It was unnecessary, passive aggressive, and unprofessional.

I have no idea how the boat got that way but I can come up with way more plausible scenarios than that as to how it got damaged at the shop, and so can anyone else reading this. Dude couldn't leave well enough alone - he says he made an inquiry and reviewed video and has no reason to believe that the damage happened while in his shop. Then, despite the lack of any belief that he is responsible, offered to fix the boat free of charge noting that there is no problem with structural integrity. That would have been a great place to stop.