NorCal Kayak Anglers
General => Classifieds => For Trade => Topic started by: The X Inn Keeper on May 29, 2018, 03:43:58 PM
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Post deleated due to uncertainty from CDFW.
Sorry to waste the space
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I would love one but I would have to be targeting pachali to legally carry it any where. Correct me if I'm wrong... :smt006
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According to Eureka CDFW office,
As long as it is used as a Gaff for assisting in landing legal Saltwater fish, it is totally legal to use.
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Very nice and tempting :smt013
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Called Eureka CDFW office to ask if Kage is legal in Ca. Ocean Waters
Eureka CDFW office told me that it is ok to use as gaff ...
Regulation book says yes, and no ……
Called back to Eureka office and asked to speak to a warden.
Warden said it is OK for use on Pacific Halibut,
BUT,
He has to research to find out if it can be used for other species ……
I will update with Response …
Please Stand By.
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According to Eureka CDFW office,
As long as it is used as a Gaff for assisting in landing legal Saltwater fish, it is totally legal to use.
It appears that my work here is done.
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Called Eureka CDFW office to ask if Kage is legal in Ca. Ocean Waters
Eureka CDFW office told me that it is ok to use as gaff ...
Regulation book says yes, and no ……
Called back to Eureka office and asked to speak to a warden.
Warden said it is OK for use on Pacific Halibut,
BUT,
He has to research to find out if it can be used for other species ……
I will update with Response …
Please Stand By.
Nice...good to know.
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How exactly does a kage work? Is it meant to only stun the pac hali or for a kill shot? Where exactly are you suppose to aim and will one shot work?
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Called Eureka CDFW office to ask if Kage is legal in Ca. Ocean Waters
Eureka CDFW office told me that it is ok to use as gaff ...
Regulation book says yes, and no ……
Called back to Eureka office and asked to speak to a warden.
Warden said it is OK for use on Pacific Halibut,
BUT,
He has to research to find out if it can be used for other species ……
I will update with Response …
Please Stand By.
New wardens, maybe not.
Carrie Wilson had a column where she specifically said illegal.
A: The kage would not be considered a gaff and thus not be legal to use as a gaff from a kayak. A gaff is defined as “… any hook with or without a handle used to assist in landing fish or to take fish in such a manner that the fish does not take the hook voluntarily in its mouth” (California Code of Regulations Title 14, section 28.65(d)).
A kage would be considered spearfishing gear and subject to the diving and spearfishing regulations (CCR Title 14, section 28.90). Under these regulations, you would be required to be floating or swimming in the water to use this device to take fin fish, other than those listed in this section.
It can also be considered a spear or harpoon, in which case (under CCR Title 14, section 28.95) if you were not in the water but in a kayak, boat or on the shoreline, it can only be used to take skates, rays and sharks (except white sharks). And, the device can’t even be possessed on a boat when swordfish or marlin have been taken.
I still think she is wrong.
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How exactly does a kage work? Is it meant to only stun the pac hali or for a kill shot? Where exactly are you suppose to aim and will one shot work?
Hawaiian style is to kill shot then use gaffhook to hoist up at least on some tuna kayak vids I've seen.
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How exactly does a kage work? Is it meant to only stun the pac hali or for a kill shot? Where exactly are you suppose to aim and will one shot work?
Hit them just under the top of the arch in the lateral line on the top side, just behind the head. A kage does a surprisingly good job of quieting big powerful fish. For a pac hali though, I have gone to a flying gaff attached to an A1 buoy. I still haven't got to test it. Maybe someday soon.
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Warden Called back,
It is stated that a gaff has a hook, and therefore = Not Gaff = Illegal
But,
It is not thrown and never leaves hand + Only used to assist in landing fish, therefore = Gaff ......
Regulations classify it as a gaff, but also make it a spear by design
So,
It will be based on individual Wardens descretion and interpritation of the regulations.
My take is ..... No Go.
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So,
It will be based on individual Wardens descretion and interpritation of the regulations.
That is quite a way to run a criminal justice system.
For me personally, I use one but only in Humboldt and I'm ready to fight a ticket for it. If you don't want to have to fight a ticket for it, you probably want to steer clear.
Which warden did you talk to? I'd like to talk to them again. I've only been at this for 5 years now. There's plenty of discussion in threads here is you use the search function that lays out the arguments.
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Any pictures of your flying gaff?
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Any pictures of your flying gaff?
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regulations are so complicated and frustrating :smt013
never plain and straight-forward
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regulations are so complicated and frustrating :smt013
never plain and straight-forward
CA regs and fizzbin have a lot in common...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_DeIExLcURQ
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regulations are so complicated and frustrating :smt013
never plain and straight-forward
CA regs and fizzbin have a lot in common...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_DeIExLcURQ
That's why you should call a kage a gaff, and why you should call hali-poons flying gaffs. A traditional flying gaff tied off to a buoy fits the definition of mousetrap gear, which is illegal to possess at all. Damned if I'm tying it of to my kayak.
Some day, when I am philosopher king, I will change the regs to make perfect sense. Until then, we play Calvinball. The only rule is you can't have the same rule twice.
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That's why you should call a kage a gaff, and why you should call hali-poons flying gaffs. A traditional flying gaff tied off to a buoy fits the definition of mousetrap gear, which is illegal to possess at all. Damned if I'm tying it of to my kayak.
From the regulations:
Mousetrap gear prohibited: It is unlawful to use, assist in using, or to possess aboard any vessel, hook-and-line gear commonly termed “mouse traps” constructed of a hook(s) or lure(s), attached to one end of a line that is attached to a float, or floats at the other end, and that when fished, is not attached directly to a person or vessel. Possession of such gear aboard a vessel shall be prima facie evidence that the gear is being used in violation of this regulation.
Why would a halibut harpoon tied to a buoy be considered mousetrap gear if no hooks are involved? It is identical to a break away setup with a slip tip used for spearing pelagic fish. The spear goes through the fish and is attached to a buoy with the shooting/float line. The fish then drags the buoy around, while you are completely detached from it.
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Because “gaffs” are legal and not questioned. It matters what you call something. If I used a flying gaff to take a California halibut, legal or not? What if it is a hali-poon? Legal or not?
My point is it matter what you call things, maybe to the point that it is more important than what it actually is.
A traditional flying gaff has a hook. A wiremans gaff is similar. Both meet the definition of mousetrap gear if you attach them to a buoy instead of the boat. I don’t think you will get a ticket for using one. Just like I don’t think you will get a ticket for using a kage. But I still call it a gaff.
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Whatever you call it, I think it would be legal to use on a pacific halibut.
(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=84028.0;attach=364317;image)
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I don't see why there are differing opinions by Wardens. The 2018/2019 regs make it pretty clear.
28.95. Spears, Harpoons and Bow and Arrow Fishing Tackle.
Spears, harpoons and bow and arrow fishing tackle may be used for taking all varieties of skates, rays, and sharks, except white sharks. Harpoons may be used to assist in taking Pacific halibut as specified in Section 28.20. Such gear may not be possessed or used within 100 yards of the mouth of any stream in any ocean waters north of Ventura County, nor aboard any vessel on any day or on any trip when broadbill swordfish or marlin have been taken. Bow and arrow fishing tackle may be used to take finfish other than giant (black) sea bass, garibaldi, gulf grouper, broomtail grouper, trout, salmon, broadbill [swordfish] and white shark.
28.20 Halibut, Pacific.
(a) Season:
[Note: The season for Pacific halibut has not been set as of the printing of this booklet, and is not included in here. See additional information about the Pacific halibut season in the box below.]
(b) Limit: One.
(c) Minimum size: None.
(d) Methods of Take:
(1) When angling, no more than one line with two hooks attached may be used.
(2) A harpoon, gaff, or net may be used to assist in taking a Pacific halibut that has been legally caught by angling. See Section 28.95 of these regulations for additional restrictions on the use of harpoons.
Is the debate whether the detachable head makes it not a harpoon ? If so go with a one piece
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Where does it say I can’t use a kage to assist in landing a lingcod? Where does it say that I can use a net to assist in landing a legal sized lingcod? Where does it say that I can use a net to catch a hitchhiker lingcod that has not voluntarily taken a hook in its mouth?
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Ok,
So,
We now know that you may or may not be allowed to use a Kage. We also know that CDFW states in the regulations that can and can not use a Kage. And, it's official that the wardens have mixed opinions on how they will in force the law that may or may not be.
So,
I have TWO Hawaiian Kaje spear gaffs that I made for practice while I was thinking of making one to use.
If you are interested in one or both, let me know and I'll give you a great deal. These are made very well, and should last a long time, But, they are not stainless.
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After reading the regs I can understand that it cannot be used for specific fish so everything else is legit. Hmmm....might start to carry...
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Thanks for the pictures Crash.Very nice.Did you make the gaff?
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Thanks for the pictures Crash.Very nice.Did you make the gaff?
Yessir.
Hickory axe handle, 24” of 10/24 stainless stock, doweling jig for a 12” hole, secured with expanding gorilla glue, and sharpened to a point with a grinding wheel. Finished with a paracord wrap and an occasional coat of marine spar urethane.
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Awesome work.Is the tip connected to the gaff by stainless cable?
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Awesome work.Is the tip connected to the gaff by stainless cable?
The tip fits over the point of the gaff. The wire is connected to the braided rope that is connected to the buoy. The gaff is not connected to the tip in any way.
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Very nice thanks crash
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Thanks for the pictures Crash.Very nice.Did you make the gaff?
Yessir.
Hickory axe handle, 24” of 10/24 stainless stock, doweling jig for a 12” hole, secured with expanding gorilla glue, and sharpened to a point with a grinding wheel. Finished with a paracord wrap and an occasional coat of marine spar urethane.
I like that design... is the tip just a piece of drilled stainless?
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Thanks for the pictures Crash.Very nice.Did you make the gaff?
Yessir.
Hickory axe handle, 24” of 10/24 stainless stock, doweling jig for a 12” hole, secured with expanding gorilla glue, and sharpened to a point with a grinding wheel. Finished with a paracord wrap and an occasional coat of marine spar urethane.
I like that design... is the tip just a piece of drilled stainless?
I just bought one commercially available. I got it at englund marine but it's pretty much the same as this:
https://www.amazon.com/KUFA-Sports-Detachable-Halibut-Harpoon/dp/B00DUKFZHK/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1527914664&sr=1-1&keywords=halibut+harpoon+head&dpID=31zwIedhvUL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
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Super tempted to use this in the SFbay for Hailbut, and all other species that are not on the "do not use on" list. Have we determined that this is legal or illegal or up to the seasoned or rookie warden? :smt006
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Super tempted to use this in the SFbay for Hailbut, and all other species that are not on the "do not use on" list. Have we determined that this is legal or illegal or up the the seasoned or rookie warden? :smt006
They were used for years without incident. Then Carrie Wilson wrote a column that said they were not legal, but her explanation was poor. That was in 2013. I don't believe that they are illegal, but given that column I would expect to get a ticket and have to fight it. I also could be wrong. I'm not willing to say go ahead and use one given the department's column saying its illegal and not having walked it back yet. But I carry one and use it, only in Humboldt though in case I do have to fight a ticket I don't want to travel for it.
So use at your own risk.
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Today's project ...
;0)
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bad ass
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bad ass
totally agree :smt003
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Final thought …
I got checked by CDFW on the water a couple days ago.
As they were checking my license and safety gear, I showed them a picture (one of the few times I had my phone on the water) of my creation and asked if it would get me in trouble. The officer and his partner both enthusiastically said there would be NO problem using that to assist in landing a fish that is already legally hooked on rod and reel, just NOT for Salmon.
So, I hope this clears things up, It sure made me feel a little more at ease.
See Ya Soon,
;0)
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Final thought …
I got checked by CDFW on the water a couple days ago.
As they were checking my license and safety gear, I showed them a picture (one of the few times I had my phone on the water) of my creation and asked if it would get me in trouble. The officer and his partner both enthusiastically said there would be NO problem using that to assist in landing a fish that is already legally hooked on rod and reel, just NOT for Salmon.
So, I hope this clears things up, It sure made me feel a little more at ease.
See Ya Soon,
;0)
Ooooo, might have to make one now...thanks for that....
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Very cool. How well do they work? Can they be purchased?
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"You'll put your eye out!" Christmas Story
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I want one yakhopper..... even if I have to drive up and get!!!!
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That gives me an idea to attach a thick rubber band on the back for halibut diving!
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... just NOT for Salmon.
Why not for salmon? Where would that be in the regulations?
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I want one yakhopper..... even if I have to drive up and get!!!!
Come on up,
If I haven't made another by then, you can take mine and I'll make another
;0)
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... just NOT for Salmon.
Why not for salmon? Where would that be in the regulations?
It's not...