NorCal Kayak Anglers
General => General Talk => Topic started by: Bushy on July 21, 2007, 04:36:40 PM
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This is someone else's story, but I just got a call with the report that one of us was knocked out of his yak by a GWS today at Bean Hollow......Report said no injuries to our fellow yak angler.
Don't know any details because the cell connection ws marginal. Keep your eyes open for later posts. Anyone with accurate info, please post asap.
Thanks
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I was there, Dan was knocked out of his kayak by a great white in full attack mode. When he climbed back in the shark was still gnawing on his kayak. He is okay, his kayak limped in, he was taking water on but it held together. I did not see the attack, only him coming in real fast. I helped him try to settle his nerves on the water and we paddled/peddled in together. Some of the Kayakers actually saw the splash after the shark attacked.
John
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Wow.... Glad to hear Dan's okay.
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Thanks John. We may need to buy a wetsuit rinse at Bean Hollow. I am so grateful Dan is unhurt. Hopefully we will hear from him the 1st hand story today.
Allen
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I don't have much to add other than I have heard the story as well from 2 different people.
I think I owe John Airey lunch.... :smt009
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I am so glad your okay Dan and hope you know this differently beats my whale story. Kept my feet inside the rest of the afternoon as well as my catch.
Again nice seeing you out on the water irregardless.
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HOLY $HIT BATMAN...that is nuts!!!
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Glad you still have a smile on your face Dan. I am not so sure I could pull that off.
It is official GWS don't like lurkers :smt044
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Kayak with flippers....GWS swimbait????
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Dan, I'm glad you're okay. Sorry about your yak. Heck of a story to go with those major battle scars. We knew it was going to happen someday, but I didn't think it was going to happen so soon to someone we know.
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Dan, you may want to report your attack to these guys:
If you, or someone you know, has been involved in a shark attack and would like to voluntarily participate in the Shark Research Committee's research program, please use the appropriate reporting form.
http://www.sharkresearchcommittee.com/unprovoked_kayaker.htm (http://www.sharkresearchcommittee.com/unprovoked_kayaker.htm)
http://members.aol.com/sharkform/index.htm (http://members.aol.com/sharkform/index.htm)
http://members.aol.com/sharkform/saf.htm (http://members.aol.com/sharkform/saf.htm)
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Thats crazy! Glad you are okay.
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Hi Yakers:
Dan has big Cahones! I hope my Family doesn't hear about the LandLords visit. Anyone have plans for a "Bang" stick?
Ernie
Translation
http://www.prankplace.com/bigcahones.htm
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Holy Moley! That's the real deal right there. Glad everyone is OK. Dan... I'm really looking forward to the first hand account. Really glad it didn't turn ugly.
Hopefully your kayak is salvageable... NOBODY has battle scars like that.
EK
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Scary stuff! :smt009 Battle scars make a good story, but this one is extreme. I'm glad you're in one piece, Dan.
Janice aka "Big J"
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Oh Sh#t Dan! I pissed myself just reading the post. Your kayak actually doesn't look that bad. That will make a hell of a story to hell when your old.
Jim
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My worst frickin nightmare. I feel for ya bro. What was going through your head. Give us intimate details, were all family here! Did any of you guys hear about the white shark attack on a hobie in New zealand? It was the same deal, the beast kept gnawing away while the piss petrified kiwi waited for his boat back. I'm taking a shot of Crown in your honor buddy, God knows you probably needed a few. Unf##kin buleevable.
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We need a new logo...
-- Dave
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Holy crap! That's something I would expect from a Tiger Shark, but that's really rare for a Great White to hit a kayak. Really lucky that it lost interest before the kayak was too damaged. Hopefully that's the last time we'll hear about one of these little adventures. Otherwise, we may have to install wetsuit diapers!
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:jawdrop :jawdrop :jawdrop
Dan~
Your story with details will make one helluva first post!!! No one could ever top it!
And I am sure I speak for the majority when I say that we want details. Everything man, everything!
Most importantly I am glad you are OK.
So how hard did it hit? Did it just tip you off or did it full out knock you off? Any warnings at all? How big was it?
Did you have bait in the water?? Reeling in a fish? Fish on board? We want details.
This is such an incredible event and I may be morbidly fascinated with it; I don't know. I know I wouldn't be frothing at the mouth for details if something bad happened.
So are you going to get back on the kayak right away?????
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Dan,
Glad you're ok. As you can tell from the conversation at the BBQ it's still taking us all a bit of time to wrap our heads around it.
I got to say though... I'm sure that in your mind you were freaking out but you sure seemed to have handled it well. Cool, calm, collective... I don't think anyone of us would have handled it like you did.
One thing I mentioned to everyone at the BBQ is that I think this incident will sure curb the fishing pressure that the bean gets. :smt044
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Holy Shit Batman, Dan put some hooks back there. Glad you are OK the adrenalin rush must have been intense.
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Dan,
I'm glad you're okay. It sounds like you really kept your wits during the ordeal.
So much for the theory that it would be a short kayak getting attacked vs a larger one...
Kevin
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Dan you are my hero, too bad you didn't have sean's helmet cam on, you would be a millionare.........Can't wait to hear your story.
skyboy
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Oh my. I feel shakey just reading the secondary accounts. I was one who didn't believe it would happen.......... :smt009
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but that's really rare for a Great White to hit a kayak
I wish...one was chewed on in that neck of the woods a few years ago, and another got SLAMMED off of the Russian after that.
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Holy S#@$%$%$#T
So Glad Your OK Dan.....
You are the Man!!!
I know we take risk out there, but to have this nightmare rear it's head....well, like someone said before,
It's hard to get a grip on this...........DETAILS HERO!!!!!!!!!
I think Hobie Owes you a New Yak...
Proving once again that a GWS shark would rather eat the Hobie than it's owner!!!!!! :smt044
Seriously, really relieved your OK and ready for news Interviews, Tonight show, David letterman ect.... :smt004
Wow!!!! ..........Danglin
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Holy crap! Glad you're okay Dan.
Has anyone contacted the International Shark Attack File or any similar group? These researchers get this info either through direct contact from first hand witnesses (best) or from second hand news stories (okay). Anyway, their the ones that compile the stats on shark attacks.
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/isaf/isafabout.htm (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/isaf/isafabout.htm)
Also, is there any way we can delete this post before my wife sees it and never lets me fish out of my kayak in the ocean again!
So far the only two known kayak fishing GWS attacks where both to Hobies....I'm so glad I don't have one of those.
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So glad Dan is okay. When I talked with him, he said that he only saw the head of the shark and that it was huge.
So much for the theory that Sharks will attack smaller yaks. Dan's kayak is 16ft long.
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OMFG!!!!
And I just convinced a friend that yak fishing in the ocean was totally safe from shark attack....(he is terrified of the thought). well at least he got one day on the big blue before this... and I'll definitely think twice before I give the bean a try...
WOW
so glad you're OK.
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After a shark attack when the main issue is your yak, its a good thing. Glad to hear your safe.
Was talking about the Bean with Sackyack and GTO19, and GTO felt the bean was kinda freaky, that was last week. Bro, Im listening to your hunches and gut feelings in the future!
Also, is there any way we can delete this post before my wife sees it and never lets me fish out of my kayak in the ocean again!
damn bsteves, my wife read the post and was loading my yak up for me and putting ground beef in my wetsuit! :smt002
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About 10:15AM, we were notified by radio of shark attack Dan's kayak. Some of us could not believe that and asked back - "is it a joke". Reply came back quickly, "dead serious and no joke." It was freaking!
When I talked with Dan on the land, I was glad to see that Dan held together really well. I hope Dan feels safe both physically and mentally, and recover from this incidence soon.
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I am so happy to hear that you are OK Dan. That sounds like a crazy story!! I can't wait to read your post. I was just talking to my girlfriend about going to Bean too. I have never been but the fishing sounds like its great there. Hope this does not deture your from yaking!!
Mike
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Dan, way to hold it together! Thanks for takin one for the rest of us - hopefully that bad boy will know that red yaks aren't vermillion flavored now!
and that sunrise ones aren't yellow-eye flavored :smt086
That's some memory you'll have for a lifetime (or longer, haha)
Way to go man... Props, and see if you can get that yak covered under warranty!
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WOW! Glad you're OK, Dan.
That is one hell of a story!
Much props!!!
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Hi Dan,
You've heard about the odds of lightening striking twice right??
Hope to see you out there again real soon - very glad you weren't injured.
Kim
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Dan is one cool cat. You'd never guess at the bbq this guy just had his yak munched on by whitey. Glad you escaped unscathed.
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Glad to hear that Dan is unscathed. I got a call about this just as I was boarding the plane to head up to Seattle then AK.
I was thinking on Friday that the Kayak fishing community was due a hit...
And yes, I still want a longer yak. 75% of attacks are on short boats after all :)
Regards,
Scott
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Wow... insane! Glad there was no loss of blood or injury. You look in pretty good spirits in that pic Dan. Good job on keeping calm and making it back in. And props to everyone who kept their heads together and helped Dan get back to shore. What can I say.. BRUDDAHZ!
Z
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I don't have much to add other than I have heard the story as well from 2 different people.
I think I owe John Airey lunch.... :smt009
yep. you're pretty much my bitch now bill. :smt003
Hmm.... what should we have for lunch?
I think we should eat shark, :smt004.
let's get a big thresher and do it up! :smt044
J
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Hey Dan,
First, very good to see you survived this. You have an angel watching out for you buddy. Shark attack! Something we all think about but don't really expect. This definitely hits too close to home. I'll be looking forward to reading your post. Don't forget to post the pictures.
YOU DID GET PICTURES DIDN'T YOU? :smt044 Just glad to see your alright and still smiling.
Ben
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Whoa... that's heavy... glad you're OK, Dan.
So I hear BSteves saying there have only been two attacks, but Sean says more? What's the straight scoop?
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bsteves qualified his by saying "fishing" kayak.
don't know what the other hobie attack was...
there was an attack at Ano neuevo. no injury. SIK
one at jenner. no injury. small SOT.
one at malibu. 2 kayakers dead. 2 SIK. reports kind of hard to get since kayakers dead.
one in la jolla. no injury. don't know the kayak.
and now an attack on a red hobie adventure @ bean hollow!
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Before Dan tells his story I'd just like to mention that while talking smack on the radio is cool there should be a limit.
While we were out there, only a short time before we heard about the shark, someone called over the radio saying something like "kayakers, this is ??? with the DFG...this is an MPLA area, please come in so I can check your licenses and your fish. If you don't come in within 15 minutes we'll send out boats to arrest you."
I don't know who it was that said it, probably not anyone in our group, and I'm sure it was all said in fun. The problem is though that a while later when someone mentioned the shark I personally wasn't sure if it was just another prank or if it was real. Good thing Dan was able to keep his cool and handled it just about as perfectly as anyone could expect. If he or anyone else would have really needed help the delay caused by the whole "is this real or is it just another prank" could have wasted valuable time that should have been used to help the person in need.
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Wow...i almost went out today, but went diving instead! And last week at BH I kept thinking how creepy the place is. And ditto on joking about sharks, etc...last week, while coming out from a dive, a guy in a skiff said that when I get attacked i better hope the shark takes my head so I won't suffer...not cool, and definitely not funny, because it can happen.
Dan, you are lucky to get through that in one piece!
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Dan, I am very happy you are OK. I was out there on Wed. and thought I saw a big shadow moving by my Yak. It was down deep in the water. I just thought it was all in my mind or my eyes were playing tricks on me.
I read where the guy that got attacked in Hawaii a few days, ago. The guy was just wading. Shark bit his leg. It was a Tiger Shark. Someone said (Expert on Sharks, maybe?) that sharks do not know what they can eat. The only way for them to find out is to take a bite out of something.
Hopefully, our shark knows that Kayaks don't taste good.
I think I will be staying away from the "Bean" for a while. Good thing the wind is back up this week.
Ken Kickfish
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that "smile" tells it all...that's the "i just stole a cookie from the cookie jar, and got away with it smile"...
so glad worked out and everyone's ok. Maybe i'll fish the bay today
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Holy Crap!
Congratulations on dodging a bullet, Dan. Glad you're ok.
I can't believe how well you held it together. You da man.
Time to have a t-shirt printed: "I survived a GWS attack at Bean Hollow."
Randy
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Regarding what Angel said about the prank announcement on the VHF. When I heard it I said to myself "OK, who's messing around now?" Off on the horizon there was the Queen of Hearts and a few PBs but I figured they knew better so I kissed it off. A short time later came the distress call from Dan and I could hear him breathing hard and asking for help...either he's a good actor or this boy's in trouble. I think a bunch of us asked at the same time "where are you?" We all started scanning the horizon and didn't see anything and hoped for the best. When the news about the attack came over the radio and we heard that he was OK then there was relief for a second. It only lasted a second because the next thought was "the landlord is looking for something to munch on". Here's the time where you wish those pesky seals would be around.
On the lighter side, as we're at the BBQ we can see ChuckE come in for a landing (keep in mind Dan's Adventure is red). OMG ChuckE is driving his "RED" adventure and he's wearing a bright RED baseball hat. Considering the preference of the GWS I think ChuckE was pushing his luck. I see "candy apple red" in a different perspective now.
Dan, I give you credit for keeping your focus and getting out of that situation. You didn't fall apart and managed to get yourself and your mangled yak back to shore. Mucho props to you man!
Gary
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Glad your ok, Dan! Wow, it knocked you out of the yak?!!! That must have been a world record re-entry, like a nano-second!! It must have been the blood red yak ' cause great whites dont attack kayaks, right?! Not that this thread could be jacked, but I caught a big ling at muir yesterday with very fresh, and shark looking, bites. Got great pics, will post report as soon as I finish with the smoker. Got about 25 lbs of fish to smoke today...mmm...
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Wow! Dan, you just experienced one of the Earth's most perfect creatures, and my worst nightmare. Sounds like your cool head prevailed allowing you to quickly self rescue and get to the beach unscathed. I'll chime in and also request a first hand write up... first hand tips on how to keep it together should the worst ever occur to any of us could help save a life.
Very, very, very glad to hear you are OK!
Backcountry
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while talking smack on the radio is cool there should be a limit
A short time later came the distress call from Dan and I could hear him breathing hard and asking for help...either he's a good actor or this boy's in trouble.
I agree with Angel. I think it's a good idea to avoid mimicking anything that might be construed as a danger or distress call on the radios. I didn't hear Dan's first call, but later, when I heard Joel's call, I had to call back and verify that it was serious. The fact that our first thought is to not take it seriously indicates what we've come to expect over the radio. Joel said that he had heard the first call but thought maybe it was someone asking for help with landing a fish.
With something like a shark injury, time is of the essance. Since the gashing nature of the wounds lead to massive blood loss the need to control the bleeding and transport for medical care is critical.
As I understand it, Dan was alone at the time of the attack. If Dan hand been unable to come in under his own power because of a significant injury, he would have exanguinated in short order without immediate assistance. His only hope would be the radio unless he could flag down someone quickly. It really would have been a tragedy if he had been injured and bled to death so near the beach with so many potential rescuers all around.
Perhaps, going forward, we need to have some ideas about how we would communicate such an incident in the future.
e.g. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, This is Dan at 37 13 32.59/122 24 31.75. I have just experienced a shark attack and need immediate assistance!
I think we all recognize that you aren't joking when you preface with "Mayday". Also, in a real attack, it would not be a bad idea to have the Coast Guard monitoring your communications incase air transport is needed, especially since our cellphones were blacked out there.
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An eyewitness account? I was one of the newbie yakers about 50m away from Dan when a call for help was faintly heard in the distance, followed by a big splash in the water next to Dan’s yak. There were probably 6 to 8 kayakers all scattered about in the usual fishing spot, a mile out northwest of the beach. The other veteran yakers were no where to be seen as they all headed south to try their new fishing spots. I looked around to see if other yakers heard and saw the same thing, not thinking more than maybe a big fish was caught and maybe Dan needed assistance with the netting. I started to paddle in the direction but gave up shortly as I noticed the action stopped and Dan wasn’t holding any fishing pole; fish got away.
Within seconds later, I heard Andy (another newbie with his first time out ever on his new yellow P15, hope I got your name correct) asked whether Dan was ok and if he needed help. I looked over again and saw beyond the swells a yak drifting without anyone on it. Andy quickly paddled over and I followed. Not much time passed that I saw Dan got back in the yak. At that moment, I was impressed at how much experience Dan must have had with self-rescuing and I thought to myself that I needed to learn this skill if the needs arrive.
I eased up on the paddling as I saw Andy was close to Dan and everything seemed to be fine. Then I saw Dan was in the water again and Andy was trying to help him get back on. Again at the moment, I thought to myself one also needs to know how to provide assistance to others in rescuing from a kayak. When I got there, Dan was already back on his kayak. A big shark bite mark could be seen on the upper part of the bow, probably 20” in diameter and big enough to swallow a watermelon. Some of the teeth mark actually punctured through the plastic. Luckily those bite marks were located in the upper part of the kayak, otherwise Dan’s yak would be taking in a lot more water. It goes without saying that Dan did an excellent job in self rescuing and for staying focus and composed throughout the ordeal. Obviously, I also called it the day right then and there and followed Dan back in, as did Andy.
Maybe it's time for me to try the lake and learn some self rescuing before heading out the big blue again.
SAL (Steven A Lam)
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All really good things to think about there Marmite...
Especially the Air Transport that will give highly skilled/ and advanced medicine to the scene....
Do not be SHY about calling for this equipment..... Even the hypothermia could be deadly...
Hopfully H2oSpider will chime in on this to further elaborate how necessary this service is for us.....
And not to be shy on Calling for it..... Danglin
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Dan, glad to hear you are ok. When Joel called to tell me the story I didn't believe him. Only afte a few minutes did it sink in. I guess we figured Bean to be the place if any south of the gate. Two hobies? Chucke, I'm not sure I want to sacrafice my life for speed :smt002.
Jason
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http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=9184.msg81235#msg81235
Food for thought on radio procedures for those who would like to change the way we communicate on the water.
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You guys without floatation in your yaks. May want to get some. I use about 15 to 18 pool noodles in mine. May take a while to get back to land. But, I know it won't sink.
Ken kickfish
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Wow, this event is already being talked about by yak-fishers in Australia! Check out the home page and "latest news" for July 22, 2007.
http://www.yakabout.com.au/home/
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The other veteran yakers were no where to be seen as they all headed south to try their new fishing spots.
SAL (Steven A Lam)
:hmh:
Sal, I had been drifting with Dan just prior to this incident. Maybe only having a little over 1yr. of this activity still makes me a newbie but understand that no one was at fault or could have prevented this incident and I must say that you pointing out that no veterans could be seen around isn't the point. I was in visual range of Dan and had been for quit a while although I was without communication due to my VHF malfunctioning while out there and had let several people know that I was without a VHF.
The point is that Dan is safe and did the things that he needed to do to, save himself. If your going out thinking that a veteran is going to come in and save the day,"DON'T" because that my friend is a deadly assumption. Go get schooled by the pro's (certified) on self rescue,beach launch and landing or even first aid. I have and I know Dan has too as well as several others of us who have attended the classes togeather.
Nothing personal dude, but keep the finger pointing or suggestion thereof out of it until you youself have had the time to learn the sport and all the fragility's involved.There are those of us who have taken the time/expense and made the effort for our own self recue including Dan which is up to the individual.
So welcome aboard and I hope that we can paddle togeather in the near future. Frankfishing
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frank, you are way too sensitive here. I know you are jealous of Dan. him catching that big fish and all.
it's so cool that he used a 16 foot lure and got a hit!
But this dude (SAL) stepped up and gave a super valuable first person account.
his post is the single best one so far.
So, chill. let people get the info out there.
J
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Maybe it's time for me to try the lake and learn some self rescuing before heading out the big blue again.
SAL (Steven A Lam)
MAYBE?!?!?
It floors me with all the talk about safety on this site how anyone can venture out into the ocean without having practiced self rescue REPEATEDLY!!!
It was a prerequisite to any kind of recreation when I got my first kayak and it was mandatory for my son before he ventured out into any kind of water with his kayak.
It is your choice to put yourself in harms way by not being prepared, but it should not be your choice to put others in harms way by not being prepared. And by not being prepared that is exactly what you are doing.
I am sure Dan's experience helped save his life. I cannot even imagine what may have happened if something like that happened to someone who has never fallen off their kayak before.
e.g. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, This is Dan at 37 13 32.59/122 24 31.75. I have just experienced a shark attack and need immediate assistance!
It would be great to be able to provide numbers like that but not very realistic in that situation.
Maybe once you are back on your boat it would be possible, but certainly not during the attack.
More realistic, in that situation, would be the general vicinity you are in. "Mayday Mayday Mayday..shark attack..bean hollow...red kayak...1 mile from shore" From there others who are in the vicinity with the luxury of glancing at their GPS can provide numbers.
Maybe Dan called in once he was back on his kayak, I do not know. This is also a perfect example of why your radio should be attached to you at all times.
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frank, you are way too sensitive here. I know you are jealous of Dan. him catching that big fish and all.
it's so cool that he used a 16 foot lure and got a hit!
But this dude (SAL) stepped up and gave a super valuable first person account.
his post is the single best one so far.
So, chill. let people get the info out there.
J
Hypersensitive is more like it J, So I bow to your input and do profess to being sensitive. Again the point is learning self rescue and not depending or assuming that others will rescue you. Having said that it is best to learn these lessons in a controlled environment and not in hindsight. I know that Sal didn't intend to point anyone out I think the message I heard from his post is how very important it is to get informed about our sport, my point is that veteran or not learn to be prepared and not assumptive.
Now I'll go take a laxative and chill :smt045
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The other veteran yakers were no where to be seen as they all headed south to try their new fishing spots.
SAL (Steven A Lam)
:hmh:
Sal, I had been drifting with Dan just prior to this incident. Maybe only having a little over 1yr. of this activity still makes me a newbie but understand that no one was at fault or could have prevented this incident and I must say that you pointing out that no veterans could be seen around isn't the point. I was in visual range of Dan and had been for quit a while although I was without communication due to my VHF malfunctioning while out there and had let several people know that I was without a VHF.
The point is that Dan is safe and did the things that he needed to do to, save himself. If your going out thinking that a veteran is going to come in and save the day,"DON'T" because that my friend is a deadly assumption. Go get schooled by the pro's (certified) on self rescue,beach launch and landing or even first aid. I have and I know Dan has too as well as several others of us who have attended the classes togeather.
Nothing personal dude, but keep the finger pointing or suggestion thereof out of it until you youself have had the time to learn the sport and all the fragility's involved.There are those of us who have taken the time/expense and made the effort for our own self recue including Dan which is up to the individual.
So welcome aboard and I hope that we can paddle togeather in the near future. Frankfishing
For what it is worth, I didn't see even a hint of finger pointing by SAL in this statement, just making the point that the attack happened with only a few people around.
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River rafting, jumping out of planes, wanting to be a Indian Snake Charmer....
A big part of this sport is the rush we get from challenging the elements....
Things are going to go wrong, thats part of it, and seeing how we will adapt and overcome and eventually
become better @ what we do.....
Well, that's the satisfaction for me,
people looking @ this have got to realize that this is not for everyone, and personal responsibility is @ a
All time High, If you want to do this, Think about what can go wrong, and prepare,
You can scale down as you get more time on the water...
Main deal is to keep your kool,
May it be a Treble hook buried in your hand and pliers dropped overboard,
Our a 18' GWS using your Yak for dental floss,
Just stay kool and stay with in your limits,
Winging it all the way..... :smt003.......Danglin
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Damn!!!!!! Glad to here everybody came out safe and sound...can't wait till the full report!
tight lines-
-beenfishin
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Here is the other kayak fishing GWS attack that I know of, the one in New Zealand.
http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/newsletters/newsletter101.htm (http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/newsletters/newsletter101.htm)
There have, however been more plain ol' kayak GWS attacks. I'm not sure why I treat the two separately in my mind other than it USED TO make me feel better.
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Just a couple of comments re: Sal's post.
1. Unless you hired a guide or are fishing with a real good friend (not an acquaintance from the hookup section) that will show you the ropes when kayak fishing, you should expect to be fishing by yourself. It is easy to lose track of other yaks when hooked up, snagged on the bottom, re-rigging, ect...
2. The Bean is not for beginners. The launch and landing is often a shore break with waves that must be timed to get out or when coming in. It is a pretty exposed area and the drift can be fast making it hard to keep your jig down (and catch fish). If the swell and wind pick up and you can't get back, there are not great choices to bail out.
Bottom line, when you go out, you need prepared to deal with the unexpected by yourself. From everything I've heard about this event, it sounds like Dan was ready.
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It appears our man of the hour is AWOL. Any of his friends "lurking :smt044" on here know how he is post GW. :smt102
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One of the many reasons I shot expanding foam(I put it in over a year ago and is still light as air and just as buoyant, still not up to USCG code, but works just fine) and pool noodles in both ends, if not, and you get hit from below, your stuck with him and you in the water, and you can count on him coming back, bad taste or not.
Wow thats one BIG bite mark in that yak, when you get it fixed, use a contrasting color fill, and please let me know if you want to sell it.
You're my hero!
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Just reared some stuff and thought I'd add, if your a newbie, please dint get lured by ballsy posts about the bean. It makes it seem nice. Its not. I'm guilty for posting that lake-like launch from last sat., but Ill tell you that the Bean Hollow surf will break your neck on any average day if your not good at, and even if you are. There are a lot of big sharks. Not much for a rescue 'cept for us unless you have a radio, and even the it takes a LOOOONG time. Frank waited for 45 min. for his basket ride last year when his yak filled. Thats hairy in cold shark infested waters but I'm sure he didn't mind much.
So if your new, Id try my luck at Chabot or Del Valle or Mendo or even the bay on a good tide. Practise a self rescue and catch trout and still feel the madness!
BTW Dan, this has nothing to do with your actions, sounds like you did the right things, just my 2 cents on the awesome bean.
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Around 7:30, I got to the Hollow only to see half a dozen guys just about ready to launch....I got out of my truck and walked up a small hill overlooking the cove and I jokingly yelled out "SHARK!! I SEE A GREAT BIG SHARK JUST OUTSIDE THE COVE :smt003 Everyone of course knew I was just trying to stall the first wave of kayakers from launching without me. So, I stood there and watched the rest make their way out to the big blue.....apparently, my so-called sighting was not credible enough :smt001
About 15 minutes later, I launched with the second wave and we all decided to fish the South side since it seemed like the first wave was heading North - which is the usual fishing grounds for those who have fished the Hollow before.
A few hours later, Gary / Sandman and I heard a "Help call" on VHF Channel 69. I heard "....need help..." and I assumed that one of the guys to the North had hooked on to a big fish and needed help with a gaff or a net. Gary and I immediately replied "Where are you?"......no reply after that. I assumed that maybe "that person" got the fish on board and no longer needed assistance or somebody else closer was able to help out. Minutes passed and we heard news via VHF of a kayaker getting hit by a shark....we thought it was a PB nearby that was playing some sick joke :smt011 I was with Sean / Piscean, Angel, Adam and a few others and I jokingly yelled out, "we kayakers eats sharks for breakfast!!!"......and that's when we heard from John / jdyak that Dan was hit by a Shark :smt104... in shock and disbelief we all wondered if he was OK....jd followed up with a report saying Dan was OK and is on the beach with him. Then we heard "bite marks on the hull of the kayak" :smt118
We grouped up and started passing on the news to those who did not have a VHF, and in about 20 minutes, we finally heard from Dan himself. And for someone who just met the land lord in person, he sounded cool, calm and collected :smt045
Curious to see the carnage done on the yak, a few of us slowly paddled in....in tight fomation (by the way :smt002). And as soon as I beached my yak, I saw Dan's kayak and quickly checked out the bite marks :jawdrop I was in total shock and disbelief....then I look up and see Dan walking towards me (with a beer in hand) and I quickly gave him a "man-hug" :smt003
more pics to follow.....my cameras battery needs re-charging :smt011
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I’m the newbie who got to Dan after seeing the big splash that SAL mentioned. SAL’s account is spot on.
I saw the huge splash too and heard a yell for help, so I thought someone hooked a monster fish and wanted help with a net or gaff. But the swells were pretty big, with the tops of the swells blocking the horizon, so I didn’t get a visual on the splash area for a good 15 secs. Then I saw a red kayak about 50 yards from me but no kayaker. Not a good situation obviously, so I paddled furiously toward the kayak but lost visual for another 15 secs because of the swells. Then I saw the kayak, this time with a person on it. So I thought everything was fine. But after losing visual again, I saw the kayak, again without a person on it. By the time I got within 5 feet, Dan was hoisting himself back on his yak. We made eye contact after he caught his breath and from the look in his eyes, I knew something horrific just happened. Dan pointed to the gashes front of his kayak and exclaimed that a shark attacked him. I took a look at the bite marks and just about s@%t! Holy &$^$! That to me was a divine sign to get the hell out of the water. I got on VHF to tell everyone what just happened but got no response. Got worried that his kayak was filling with water, so while Dan hung onto my kayak with his left hand, we hightailed it back to the beach. When we got to 50 feet of so from the cove entrance, Dan let go and accelerated away - had no idea Hobies were so quick.
What an introduction to the sport. First time ever kayak fishing and a fellow kayaker gets slammed by a shark. Caught a small olive and a brown though – first fish caught from a kayak. Small consolation prize I guess, for the rather short day. Thanks for taking the pics SAL. I took some pics of Dan’s gashed yak too, but won’t show those to the wife. :smile: Nice meeting y'all Sat.
Andy
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Whoa...ease up on the rookie bashing here, (SAL) is my friend Steve and he's trying to give an honest account of a traumatic situation that certainly shocked the senses of all of us that venture out in the salt. We did get separated at the launch with me scouting out new spots to the south and him heading out to the northern reef where he caught fish last Sat. With all the yaks around I suspect that most folks in that area knew that they had company.
Regarding his experience I took him out to the Alameda Rockwall on his maiden voyage, followed by surf entry/landing lessons at Linda Mar and last week he was part of the July 7th group that fished the Bean. While I'm not a seasoned veteran or instructor I think I've been through enough to be able to get him going. If the surf was too tough I would have made the decision to launch out of HMB.
Frank, I hear what your saying and couldn't agree with you more that having a veteran around is false security and we need to learn how to be self-reliant. Point well made and taken.
I hope we're not ignoring the fact as a newbie he paddled over to Dan to see if he needed help and didn't back down in the face of a shark attack. Let's give him some credit for that.
While on shore afterwards ChuckE was asking everybody in the face of this shark attack would we continue fishing the Bean. My answer was an immediate yes because I've had time to think about this since last year when Cafecraig got buzzed by the landlord. As we've discussed before it was a matter of time even though we've all silently hoped that we wouldn't be the first. Since its now a reality let's move forward and talk about what we should be doing to avoid any fatalities:
Learn self-rescue
Fish in pairs or groups
Carry a working VHF
Don't hang dead, bleeding fish over the side of your yak
Avoid sharky areas
Find out if there's been any local reports of shark sightings
What else? Marine biologists please jump in anytime now.
Gary
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For those of you that were there and talked the event through with Dan on the beach, did he actually get knocked off the yak by the shark twice? Sure sounds like it from the observers' points of view. From what I've read, it's exceedingly rare for a shark to persist predation once they've had a mouthful of plastic/wetsuit, etc... (i.e., no positive reinforcement).
Since we're on the topic... a topical recent book about the GWS predation research program at the Farallons is called "The Devils Teeth", by Susan Casey... good stuff!
http://www.devilsteeth.net/aboutthebook.htm
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Wow... I couldn't sleep last night after reading about happened yesterday. Glad no one was hurt and that everyone made it back safely. I guess the party is over now at Bean for while :smt010.
It just all of sudden hit me that it might've been the same GWS or a different one that almost jolted me off the kayak two weeks ago on 7/12/07 when fishing at BH. My dad and I were on just drifting along on the tandem kayak when all of sudden something hit the rear right side of the kayak follow by a splash. The force almost threw me off the yak. My dad quickly turned around to see if I had fallen in the water. There behind the yak was this crazy baby seal jumping 4-5 times around the yak as if it's trying to jump on board. I quickly grabbed the club just in case if it decides to come up. The commotion quickly settled down. I checked to make sure there's no leak inside and went back to fishing. I did'nt think much of it other than a curious seal, probably high on sardine, got too much energy. I just thought that it was kind of strange that a baby seal would hit with such a force since I had my back turned and never saw what hit me. I just assume that it was that baby seal.
Then as I went home to rinse off my kayak, I noticed these deep cuts and scratches on the right rear of the kayak. They didn't look like your normal scratches. These were vertical and deep. I was more worried about how I am going to have to repair it than what might have caused these marks. I started to wonder if seals have lacerated fins or sharp teeth. The word GWS never enter my mind until I read the post then things became more clear to me. May be I am just reading into things. All I know is I probably will not fish there anymore. At least my wife will not let me. I made the mistake of "Oh Honey, come check this out, you wouldn't believe what happened out there"
Eugene
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Another tip is too have is have a big bowie knife. I have a few 15" (total lenght). I duct tape that to my lower leg. Great for cutting braid. But, if I get bumped from Mr. or Mrs. Shark. I can get a few swings in before the end might be near. At least, think is what I think.
Ken kickfish
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Go get Em Quint!!!!! :smt027
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did he actually get knocked off the yak by the shark twice
I was talking to Dan and he said he had no fish or feet in the water, and had stopped to change a lure when he got knocked out of the kayak the first time. He came up to see the shark chomping on the bow of his kayak and he wasn't sure if he should try to reenter at that point. Eventually he tried but his seat was all messed up and he therefore fell out after his first reentry. Fortunately, the LandLord had apparently lost interest by then.
They didn't look like your normal scratches. These were vertical and deep
Have someone who knows verify the nature of these scratches. Seems like it would be good to know if another kayak got hit at Bean in less than a month.
Another tip is too have is have a big bowie knife
Does anyone know what sharks do if you fire a flare in their mouth?
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Dan,
I just heard via a WSK email. Wow! Glad to hear you are okay! Sounds like you held up well and did the right things under the stress and pressure.
Let's hope this was your "lightning strike" and it doesn't strike twice. One of these days, I'll have time to fish again and I'll be glad to see you red Hobie still out there with me.
Reality check:
As long as kayak fishers keep fishing the Red Triangle, this is going to happen however infrequently.
Just like the Grizzly, who every once in a while takes on campers in his domain to defend it, the GWS, as a territorial apex predator, will do so in his. I guess we can take comfort in the rarity of the event--but that's no consolation to the rare individual who "wins" the lottery. Let's hope the sharks keep their focus on the kayak (which is likely since they see it as the interloping animal) and not the kayaker.
Glad you came through unscathed. A kayak is a small cost to pay in the end.
Man I miss fishing with you all. Just no time with job and family these days.
Daniel
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I was on the bay outside Santa Cuz today. I have to admit that I didn't dangle my feet in the water for more than a few seconds at a time!
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SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad you are safe!!!!
Chris
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Another tip is too have is have a big bowie knife. I have a few 15" (total lenght). I duct tape that to my lower leg. Great for cutting braid. But, if I get bumped from Mr. or Mrs. Shark. I can get a few swings in before the end might be near. At least, think is what I think.
Ken kickfish
Does anyone know what sharks do if you fire a flare in their mouth?
Before we all start getting into our "strategies" about how to inflict damage upon the GWS lets all realize how rare the attack will be and on top of that, that 9 out of 10 times the shark will hit and be gone. Preparing on how to get back to shore (re-entry, radio calls etc.) are much more important. We're the intruders floating around in their territory so let's have some respect for them. If it was life and death I would of course defend myself but I'd hate to hear escalating macho talk about how to maim a GWS.
Dan did a great job and let's all follow his lead.
Z
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Z,
I think it is better to be prepared than not. No one can defend yourself better than yourself. Even if the next guy is ten feet away from you. It may not help. I don't go looking for trouble. But, if it comes looking for me. I will be prepared. It not being Macho. It just realizing that you are not at the top of the food chain out there.
Ken kickfish
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"see what I mean"
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nseal,
Are you a real person or just someone with nothing to say?
Ken kickfish
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I think Zeelander has it right--the attacks are unexpected, swift, and short. While I think you may derive some sense of security in your preparation and feel more at ease that is likely to be the only benefit you'll derive from it. If the time comes you'll never see it coming and you won't have the time to do much but try to scramble back in your boat in terror.
Great White Sharks are territorial apex predators. I have read some research that finds a difference between surfer and kayak attacks and their usual Sea Lion preying. The typical attack on a Sea lion is one bite and then retreat to let it bleed out before returning to feast. Why then do these sharks latch on to a kayak and keep biting? Surely, having been honed to perfection over the millenia, they cannot be mistaking a plastic boat for Sea Lion. No taste of salt and blood which we all know makes Bass bite down on scented plastics harder--and spit a hard lure with no taste in the blink of an eye. Surely a GWs is not less sophisticated than a Black Bass.. And they don't retreat after the first bite. So I conclude, as do some researchers, that they are not attacking a Sea Lion--they are warding off a poacher on their territory. They don't intend to eat the poacher--just drive it off. Hence the harrassing bites. That is why the surfers an kayaker aren't harmed directly though they can be collaterally--they aren't the focus of the attack at all.
If my amateur conclusion is correct, then there is little one can do to avoid attack. Dan didn't have fish or feet in the water. I believe it was his mere presence in the territory that provoked the strike. It is like hiking in Grizzly country--attacks are rare and unprovoked--but sudden, unexpected, and violent. I have a friend who was Antelope hunting in Montana when he double-backed on his tracks to find a Grizzly was tracking him! Needless to say he vamoosed.
The problem with the GWS is no tracks, no trail, and no warning. Fortunately, GWS are rare and their territory is large. Most kayakers never see one let alone clash with one. You have better odds being seriously injured driving to and from your kayak trip than by a GWS once there. I do admit it is pretty scary thinking they are out there below you. You wonder how many times they've eyed you and passed on you as not a meal or a threat. Avoid the Red Triangle to be a bit safer. It is all a calculated risk in any event. You pick you level of risk and deal with the consequences.
Let's be glad Dan came through safe and sound and let's hope the next person does. There will be a a next one as sure as Great Whites rule the seas and we kayak them. Our encounters are inevitable--let's hope they continue to be non-fatal.
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Frank,
You got it all wrong. I have read and reread my post and yours and was trying to determine what I wrote that prompted you to get upset. The only conclusion that I could sum up was the fact that I had erroneously mistaken you as a newbie in my post when in fact you are definitely not (been lurking this site long enough to know that you are not). The newbies (or should I say beginner kayak fishermen so not to offend anyone) that I was referring to in my post were myself, Andy, Bill (very experienced fly fisherman from SF, however first time out of BH) and Ty, all of whom were fishing close to Dan. I have never met you in person yet and I am sure you were one of the 6-8 kayakers within the proximity. My apology for inadvertently included you as one of the “newbies”. My intention of the post was to share with everyone on what I saw and not to blame or point any fingers or expect any “veterans to come and save the day”. The mentioning of where everyone was fishing was just that and nothing more.
I couldn’t agree with you and with everyone on the importance of prerequisites and safety (dressed appropriately, right gears, fishing buddies, self rescue and other training, etc) and NCKA website has done a great job in many of these areas, especially in helping me rigged my kayak. However it does not stress so much on the safety issues for beginners (or at least I have not seen any articles on them). I and most of everyone know common sense tells one to get trained/prepared as much as possible so not to put oneself and others at risk. The truth is not many beginners are taking this seriously until it becomes a reality. I am one of them and am guilty for thinking that I don’t really need it since I consider myself a strong swimmer (high school varsity swim team). It took me a while to gather enough courage for my first outing at ARW. Prior to this, I have purchased and watched a couple of kayaking videos, i.e Performance Sea Kayaking; just never hit the lake to actually try the self rescuing technique yet but it has been on my mind since day 1. Gary, the Sandman, did a great job in slowly introduced me to the sports. The Sandman gave me many good pointers on how to launch and land (there is a “science” to it as Gary puts it) and on moving about on a kayak.
Sorry to take so much of everyone’s time on this little misunderstanding and for diverting from the main topic. Happy kayaking and I lalso ook forward to meeting and paddling with you too in the future.
SAL
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SAL,
Practice that rescue.
Practice navigating in fog.
Practice surf launching and landing.
Practice it all.
By the time you need it, it's too late to practice.
You life or someone's nay hang in the balance.
Seriously. Ocean kayaking is a serious undertaking but can be very rewarding.
Just keep safety always in your mind with every decision.
Other than that, don't forget to have fun.
Oh, and welcome to the sport ;-)
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Wow! Glad it was just your yak and not you Bill. That's kinda close to home. I was just diving there on Wednesday...
Way to keep your cool.
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thats it, im gonna cut my kayak into a more rectangle shape as opposed to a long seal shape. how am i supposed to go out freediving off my kayak after this? the shark would think it was a 2 for one deal if it saw me dangling my feet off the kayak with fins on getting ready to plop in.
:smt005 :smt005 :smt005 :smt005 :smt044 :smt044
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Actually,
They say that black and white stripes are the best on the bottom. It looks like a Killer Whale. I know the study was done in the 50's or 60's. But, it does make sense. They also say that yellow is the most likely color to get hit. Not, Red. Maybe, this shark was colored blind?
Ken kickfish
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SAL~
I do not say this with a malicious intent.
Trust me, unless you actually experience falling out and getting back on your kayak you have no idea all that is involved. I keep harping on this subject because I do not by any means want to hear of someone getting hurt or worse.
I did a lot of ab diving prior to getting my first kayak. I took my kayak and all my gear to Folsom Lake. What an eye opener THAT was. Good thing I started near shore in 4 feet of water. Weight belt was the first thing to go over. Moving around the kayak from front to back, switching sides was definitely something I am glad I practiced before going out into the real deal. Pulling gear out of hatches and stowing it again from in the water as well as from the top of the kayak made me realize what works best and what doesn't. There is definitely an order of doing things.
The thing that surprised me the most was the wind. I had no probs catching my kayak with my fins on. Without them on was a TOTALY different story. No matter how hard I swam I could not catch it. I was in a little cove so it was easy to retrieve when it blew on shore. Little things you learn while practicing are the things no one can really tell you about but are also the things that may mean the difference between fishing again or not.
Definitely don't think of it as work or something you have to do. Approach it as something you want to do and in all truth, it is actually a lot of fun to do as well.
This is not to single you out. This is for anyone who thinks they can do something without ever actually doing it. Practice. Practice. Practice.
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Tote, John, and all the other yakdivers, I can't even imagine trying to do what you guys do, having to mind all that, as well as potential problems/hazards that come in addition to what yakfishers deal with. Even in a lake, let alone ocean. You guys really take it on!
Ken, yeah I wonder... I am not sure, if color is as much of an issue, as electronic impulses, and then movement, in a GWS finding something to be curious about? When I had my drive-by last year, Paul and I were drifting and hadn't moved in awhile, save retrieving lures. As soon as I saw the guy pass, I didn't move a nanometer when he circled and went under me. He didn't even give me a test bite - more like just a passing curious look-see. Had Dan just stopped paddling/pedaling soon before he got his bite?
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If it was life and death I would of course defend myself
With what?
By the time you need it, it's too late to practice.
Your life or someone's may hang in the balance.
Presumably, this would include having the right implements available as well.
I'm not going macho to attack a shark. I'll leave the "macho" for others. But if I were in the water wounded and a shark was returning, I think it's not unreasonable to wonder whether a molten clump of magnesium burning in his gullet might be an effective deterrent. I would think it would be more effective than pounding your fist on his snout or tickling him with a 15 inch knife. It doesn't hurt to think in advance.
We're the intruders floating around in their territory so let's have some respect for them
Before we all start getting into our "strategies" about how to inflict damage upon the GWS lets all realize how rare the attack will be and on top of that, that 9 out of 10 times the shark will hit and be gone...I'd hate to hear escalating macho talk about how to maim a GWS.
If what you and SurfingMarmot say is true, that the attacks are territorial in nature, rather than hunger-provoked, then it seems to me that the argument of statistical rarity goes out the window when you increasingly intrude on the LandLord's backyard. If one Kayak annoys him, what is the effect of 17?
If the incident reported on 7/12/07 proves to also be from a shark creasing a kayak, then I would say that two incidents, in the same place, in three weeks is not all that rare.
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The other incident appears to be totally different though. It sounds as if the GWS was chasing a seal that decided a yak was a good place to be safe. Seal goes for the yak with a shark in hot pursuit, shark goes for the seal, gets a little piece of yak. It could have just been the seal hitting the boat as well, we will never know for sure.
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Lots of shark psychologists around.
Shouldn't be hard to determine if a baby seal, or ordinary damage could account for the marks made on the kayak on 7/12.
The marks on Dan's kayak were quite interesting, and I'm sure, shark-specific. You could probably determine regular teeth spacing by measurement. The marks on the starboard side were slash-like indicating laterally applied force. But the marks on the port side were small, punctate holes, that may not have even be through-and-through. In contrast the port-side marks showed no evidence of lateral movement while the jaws were clenched. This suggests that the lower teeth are used to fix the prey while the pivoting head slashes with the upper teeth
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more pics of Dan....
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more...
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I'm pretty sure if we measure the the bite we might be able to guess-timate the length of the shark. I'll do some digging to find the conversion. Are there any good obvious bite marks, you know a nice arch of teeth marks? Or is it just some random deep teeth marks here and there?
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Come on guys.
There was a attack to a guy wading....do you think the guys & girls (OK women) on surf boards are doing any thing wrong.
When you think you are "king of the food chain" then things happen. I really hope you don't think a call to "911' will hep you family when something is happening to your home without protection.
Ken kickfish
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We're the intruders floating around in their territory so let's have some respect for them.
Z
That's some hippy-dippy sh1t Z. Would you let a Grizzly into your neighborhood park?
I think you've had one too many granola bars, :smt002.
the open ocean is one thing, 200 yards from the populated coast is another.
just think we need an alternate viewpoint on this particular point. look, humans own the
earth, for better or worse. we choose to let the GWS live, it's not like we couldn't basically
hunt them to extinction if we wanted.
They are cool, but they are a real life sea monster. no bones about it.
point needs to be made.
J
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Are there any good obvious bite marks, you know a nice arch of teeth marks?
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Wow, glad your ok. News is getting down south about the incident.
Do you guys think the black flippers on the bottom and the way it moves in the water/displaces the water replicates a seal or fish tail/fin and that may have interested the shark over the other kayakers within the area? I joked about that a year or so ago when I first started seeing them boats around, not so funny anymore.
Also, I heard of "yum, yum" yellow being the color of choice for sharks, but never red, guess you never know. I paddle white and hope they think it's the belly of a 16' GWS above them.
Again, glad the person is ok and glad to hear others came to his aid.
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OK Marmite,
Would you like to be in a gun fight with a BB gun or a 45 cal. If it is the BB then why don't the cops run a run with a sling shot instead of a gun. Let me again, explain it if you are attacked at your home and you have a BB gun and pistol. Which would you used? I know you would talk the Shark down so he or she would need therapy?
Also, I don't think I am attacking the shark. I am pretty sure is it attacking me. My brother was in Yellowstone at a lodge and the Bear wanted the dirty dipers out of his van. What happens if your kids are inside the van?
Ken kickfish
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the GWS, as a territorial apex predator, will do so in his. I guess we can take comfort in the rarity of the event--but that's no consolation to the rare individual who "wins" the lottery. Let's hope the sharks keep their focus on the kayak (which is likely since they see it as the interloping animal) and not the kayaker.
I think the marmot is talking out his ass here. I did read colliers book. If the shark is feeding, then there might be a question of territorialism.
But otherwise, they are too migratory to be real territorial. That shark doesn't hang at the hollow all year long.
I think this was predation. perhaps curious predation. I'd like to know how hard that shark hit Dan's yak. that chick up by jenner got launched 10 feet in the air. 4000 lbs going 20mph straight up is going to put some MV (momentum) to work and you are going to get ejected pretty hard in a real strike. I have some concern about spine damage from the blow. Did dan just get knocked out as the shark wanted to nibble or was he hit hard from below like a true topwater take-down and go 10 feet in
the air?
Love to hear from the lurker himself!
J
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We're the intruders floating around in their territory so let's have some respect for them.
Z
That's some hippy-dippy sh1t Z. Would you let a Grizzly into your neighborhood park?
I think you've had one too many granola bars, :smt002.
the open ocean is one thing, 200 yards from the populated coast is another.
just think we need an alternate viewpoint on this particular point. look, humans own the
earth, for better or worse. we choose to let the GWS live, it's not like we couldn't basically
hunt them to extinction if we wanted.
They are cool, but they are a real life sea monster. no bones about it.
point needs to be made.
J
So you're saying the great whites can hang out offshore but for them to come within 200 yards of the beach is unreasonable? What do you suggest as a solution? Killing them all? Or maybe you want to paddle out and explain boundaries to sharks? Sharks live in the ocean and that's that, and this is not the same as letting grizzlies roam Golden Gate Park...there are lakes with big stripers for people who want to avoid sharks. I hope this doesn't turn into a Fish and Game shark hunt/revenge mission (like the coyotes in GGP)...after all, they are protected.
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Kickfish, I've been in on surgery where we saved a guy with a 10 inch bucher knife wound through both sides of his 3/4 inch wide inferior vena cava (the vessel that returns most of your blood to your heart). He had no pulse or blood pressure on arrival. We saved him.
If you swallowed an ounce of draino--there would be nothing we could do. It would burn your guts out. Targeting vital organs can make a difference! I would think sharks have less sensitivity to surface lacerations (unless you get an eye). Like Lings getting spiked in the gut by rockfish, its probably just part of growing up in their world. Stuff happens and you heal. But a red hot belly...now that might be a novel experience!
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WOW! This is an amazing story. I have been thinking about it for the past two days.
Very glad to hear Dan (the lurker :smt002) is OK.
THAT is the most important detail. But...I would really really like to hear from him. [As opposed to a bunch of bickering about this-and-that] The response from NCKA members has been outstanding; a sign that this community of ours is truly a great brotherhood (and sisterhood!) of kayakers. One big happy family.
However, I can assure you that there are a lot of non-members viewing the ongoing story. So lets keep it civil. And on-topic.
Lets hear moere accounts of what people on the water saw and heard about the attack. Or, better yet, lets hear from the Man of the Hour!
Thanks for the accounts. I am riveted by this story!
PK
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I have to agree it would be good to get Dan's first and only post, :smt005. lurkers rule!
but I have to laugh at people really believing the yum-yum-yellow thing.
or that painting black stripes will keep them away. cause it "makes sense". nothing makes sense
till you've seen it again and again.
we haven't seen too much of this, we don't have a clear idea of what is going on. you can't really
count on your common sense too much.
I'm floored that somebody could be attacked and not know it, that's hilarious!
andrew, I'm actually with you on this, but for different reasons. however, somebody needs to temper
the typical status quo of "they have a right to be there". they don't have a right. for better or worse,
and it could be worse, I agree, we choose. if you want to choose to let them chew on a kayak once in a while, fine.
but don't go all mystical and sentimental on me, :smt012.
J
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You guys without flotation in your yaks. May want to get some. I use about 15 to 18 pool noodles in mine. May take a while to get back to land. But, I know it won't sink.
Ken kickfish
A shark attack was one of my biggest fears when I bought my kayak and the first thing I did was install 4 large noodles in my P15. If you have a P15, please look at my original post (http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/bb/index.php?topic=3590.msg29978#msg29978) and you will see a picture of the noodles that I am referencing. I tied them together to make sure they would not come out if a big hole was made by a shark or rock. My biggest fear was my kayak sinking which leaves you helplessly floating in the water. My thought was if my kayak continues to float, the shark would eventually realize it was an inanimate object and leave me alone. Of course, the story changes if I have fish on board.
I'm just glad no one was hurt in this incident. I think we need to really start thinking about the buddy system a little more seriously every time we fish in the ocean. No fish is worth our lives and if someone is nearby our chances of surviving an incident increases.
If I were not "on-call", I would have been at this event. I'm glad to hear no one was hurt.
Luis
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look, humans own the earth, for better or worse. we choose to let the GWS live, it's not like we couldn't basically hunt them to extinction if we wanted.
They are cool, but they are a real life sea monster. no bones about it.
point needs to be made.
J
What a lame thing to say.. :smt011
Z
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When and if I purchase my next yak ,it is definitely not going to be the color red or anything similar.
Was the landlord perhaps practicing catch and release.
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Hey Marmite,
No thanks. I can give you arsine, metal organic and any you what. Worked in LED's and Laser's for 15 years
Ken kickfish
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I'm still shaken by what had happened to Dan. After all, it could have happened to any of us out there that day. There were 17 kayaks on the water on the day of the attack, some kayaks were yum-yum yellow in color, some kayaks were shorter that others, others had fish dangling on the side of their yaks, others were on the move while others were simply drifting. IMO: Dan just happen to be on the path of this hungry / curious shark. I'm just glad Dan is alright :smt002
Message to Dan - post when you feel like posting. Hope to see you soon!
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I agree with Sin Coast... let's get this thing back on topic.
Enough with the philisophical bickering. Z and J... you guys need to hug it out.
And as for yum yum yellow... I'm convinced that it got that name because it has historically been the most prevalent color in sit-on-top kayaks, hence the highest probability of being hit. That is changing now with the variety on the market.
As for the marks on the boat... I have no doubt in my mind that this was an exploratory bite, similar to the majority of surf board bites and most other kayak hits. If this thing was really bent on making a kill shot, it would have completely mangled the front of that boat.
I'll be very interested to see if anyone can estimate the size of the shark by the marks on the yak. Looks like some very nicely spaced scratch marks to go on.
EK
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Had probably something to do the black fins under his Yak. My guess. It does not pattern like the double oars of a reg. yak. the steady pulse means something swimming in the Ocean. Trying to get away from him or her. Sound like a fish....you are a fish. Even if you are not paddling. That is the last movement the shark feels.
Ken kickfish
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Erik,
A kill shot to the head of anything out there. Asked Randy...forgot his last name. The Abalone diver a few years ago.
But, I hate to say it....Nseal chime it if you want...but the bears, cougars and sharks have no fear of us. We used to shoot them when they got close. Now, you can't because they will put you in jail. They used to fear humans. It was called hunting. Now, is a word that can not be spoken. Like I said they are "kings of the food chain" so why should they yield? Believe me this is the first of many.
Ken kickfish
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That's some hippy-dippy sh1t Z. Would you let a Grizzly into your neighborhood park?
I think you've had one too many granola bars, :smt002.
the open ocean is one thing, 200 yards from the populated coast is another.
just think we need an alternate viewpoint on this particular point. look, humans own the
earth, for better or worse. we choose to let the GWS live, it's not like we couldn't basically
hunt them to extinction if we wanted.
They are cool, but they are a real life sea monster. no bones about it.
point needs to be made.
J
J, What the hell?
Oh and the," lurker " Dan has his right to privacy/time which I find pretty humbling and very admirable. Not defending you Dan but sometimes this type of event needs privacy, reflection and honest appraisal.
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Holy S%&T.....Glad you're okey man.
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Why are the colors yellow and red the choice of sharks? I don't recall any sea lions being that color. I would think that wheat brown would be more tempting to Mr. GWS.
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Sal - determining the safety of a situation is the logical conclusion in everything we do in life. At least I hope it is. You need to access whether the situation you are placing yourself in is safe, or too risky to your well being. Hopefully you wouldn't ride in a vehicle when the driver is intoxicated, because it is too risky. The same would apply to paddling some where that is too risky for you, whether you are a novice or veteran paddler.
After giving it a lot of thought, I kept coming back to: Whose responsibility is it for my safety while paddling with a group of people? The answer I arrived at was: It is mine. I should not expect anyone to know what my paddling capabilities are; how far I am comfortable paddling; whether I am able to swim, paddle in gusty wind, or to roll. Nor should I assume that the other people I am paddling with have good judgment in making vital decisions, just because they have paddled longer than me.
Granted there are times when things happen beyond your control, like what happened to Dan. At unforeseen times like these, you can only hope people will come to your aid, but again you shouldn't count on that people will step up to the plate.
I think that's what Frankfishing was trying to point out, which I am in complete agree with him, in regards to some, (not all), novice paddlers may get a false sense of security paddling with veterans, or with other people for that matter. It has been my experience that the majority of the novice paddlers I have paddled with, have assumed that the veteran paddlers, will bail them out if they encounter difficultly.
The problem with that mind set, is they may not take into consideration, that the veteran paddler may encounter difficulty, and they may not be able to assist them, because they are too busy trying to save themselves or someone else. What would happen if you become separated from everyone? What would you do if you are 2 miles out from shore, and a shark put a hole in your kayak? What would you do if you did get attacked by a shark, and knocked over board, and your paddle went one direction and your kayak another? These are the kinds of things to think about beforehand so you have a backup plan, IF the situation should ever arise.
In others words, would you drive a car on the freeway, if you didn't know how to operate the car? Hopefully not. The same applies to knowing how to operate a kayak efficiently, because your life if dependent on it. The more precautions you take, and classes, and experience you have, the greater your odds will be to survive. Your survival is not someone else's responsibility, and to think that it is, is a bad assumption on anyone's part, in my opinion.
I have repeatedly seen novice paddlers join my paddling outings, regardless of the stipulations I made, in regards to knowing how to operate your boat; how to reenter in the event you capsize; how to roll; or how to wet exit your boat. When people disregard my stipulations, it puts them and everyone else at risk if they don't know how to operate their kayak.
Franks point, and mine, is to be as prepared as possible at all times, because your chances of survival increase immensely when you are prepared, and to remember at all times your safety is entirely up to you and the decisions (or lack of them) you make. This applies to anything you do in life and the decisions you make.
I don't believe Frankfishing, nor am I, saying that you did anything wrong. I think he was referring to an error in judgment in a lot of paddlers, that think you are safer paddling with a group of people. I actually feel safer paddling by myself, because I know what my limitations are, whereas I don't know that about someone else, which has frequently placed me at harms way, when I paddle with a group of people, especially when an abundant of people stretched the truth about their paddling experience, so they could participate.
This has been my experience, you don't have to agree with my opinion, and if you don't please voice your view point in a respectful way.
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17 guys paddling around in your backyard. I think you would go out and check what is happening. There is probably a scent of blood in the water. Red=Blood.
But, then again. Why are there so many lures and jig colors. And, why do some work better on some days than others. Even, depends on which lake or ocean you are fishing on. If it was that natural colors always work (baitfish colors). Then we could get away with probably having about 5 to 6 colors.
I think the study of colors and sharks attacks were done to help the guys who were in the water during the the war. Had nothing to do with kayaks.
Ken kickfish
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look, humans own the earth, for better or worse. we choose to let the GWS live, it's not like we couldn't basically hunt them to extinction if we wanted.
They are cool, but they are a real life sea monster. no bones about it.
point needs to be made.
J
What a lame thing to say.. :smt011
Z
well, it's not politically correct, or sociologically fashionable to say things like this. and it might even be lame.
but it's true, :smt001.
remember, I pretty much predicted the attack. I publicly bet Bill lunch it would happen. (thank goodness
Dan is okay!).
I say stuff that people don't like sometimes, but I'm right a lot.
So listen to me now but hear me later Z, :smt004.
J
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And as for yum yum yellow... I'm convinced that it got that name because it has historically been the most prevalent color in sit-on-top kayaks, hence the highest probability of being hit. That is changing now with the variety on the market.
As for the marks on the boat... I have no doubt in my mind that this was an exploratory bite, similar to the majority of surf board bites and most other kayak hits. If this thing was really bent on making a kill shot, it would have completely mangled the front of that boat.
EK
I agree with this one. But I'm curious to hear from Dan how hard he got ejected. Like I said that BASK woman that got hit in the little ocean kayak boat (frenzy?) was ejected hard and the boat basically sank according to the accounts.
this time around the shark seems to have taste tested the boat. "hmmm. has flippers, and is big and red, but tastes like, well... PLASTIC".
The reason to bicker on a philosophical level is because there is the immediate question of what happened and the longer term question of what if anything could or should be done about it.
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but it's true
For the moment...
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Ok guys let's keep it on topic. I feel heavy moderator sickness coming on. Take the "Humans rule the world vs we are pawns in mother natures game" to the political forum.
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Wow, I am glad to hear Dan is okay and everything worked out well. That is definitely one hell of a story.
I think it is bound to happen now and again as the sharks and their main food supply are both protected, so with increasing populations of seals and sea lions there should also be an increase in GW specifically and shark in general populations. Still though when I think about the shear number of people in the water on the coast of California on Saturday July 21, 2007 I think it really is amazing that these attacks/sightings and mouthings don't occur much more frequently. It makes me think that these animals are a fair bit more intelligent that most of us believe that they are. Fact is if there really was a "jaws" like great white out there hunting people more people would simply die or disappear. Thinking about it most of us have seen the video of the GW jumping completely out of the water, these are massively powerful animals. I am actually surprised at the minimal damage inflicted on the kayak and the complete lack of interest in the splashing that would have gone on during both re-entries.
Jeff
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I'll put in my 2 cents worth. I wasn't there when the incident happened, and only learned of it after landing.
From the looks of the kayak, I suspect the shark was curious more than anything. The typical attack of a feeding-leaning GW would be the massive mid body bite at full speed. I didn't here how hard the shark hit the boat, and that would make the decision between feeding-oriented and investigative munching for me.
I don't think kayak color has any real weight with sharks. They hit what's there, if they want to.
Sharks are there off Bean, they are in the SF bay, they are in santa cruz, they are anywhere there is saltwater. Know that & think on it often and understand it. I don't say this to be macho, far from it. Carlos Eyeles addresses this in his great book "last of the blue water hunters". It is simply part of my lifestyle.
Dan and SAL and the other few paddlers nearest the incident are to be commended for their response and willingness to help out. You guys deserve massive props.
Bean is not a solo-type of place. I have been paddling for almost 20 years, guided multiple day trips in AK, and taught into paddling classes through UCSF, California Canoe & Kayak (Oaktown & HMB), and Kayak connection in Santa Cruz. Still, i was a little anxious paddling in a new place, and one with a reputaion to boot. I stayed within visual range of several paddlers at all times, and had my radio on me, and my GPS on. I stayed comfortable and had a fantastic time. In fact I was amped, and "totally dug the scene" to use a little SC vernacular.
Would I fish Bean again? Hell yes, just not alone, and I would probably stay grouped tighter than I did Saturday.
-Sean
PS: I know this has been beat, but please, we are paddlers first and fisherfolk second. Most folks already know how to fish and are new to the paddling thing. Please take a solid intro-to-kayaking class that teaches several on-water rescues and sets you up with the proper clothing and suggested equipment for the prevailing conditions and the not-so-prevailing conditions you might encounter. Dress for immersion. Pay attention to those around you, and never be afraid to bug out if you are uncomfortable. I would surely rather help concerned paddler in to shore than read about them later getting in trouble. Learn from Eric B's post-he covers a lot right there.
ok, off the box now.
Sean
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after the call came through,we did not believe it. We acted tuff and made comments to each other about if "he caught it". Then something BIG surfaced right behind Mooch and scared the $#IT of of him/us.....
mooch? it could have been it! we were straight down the rocks,sitting in the 30' shelf just off the rocky shelf, about a 5 min. swim for a big fish.Your buddy was just guessing it was a seal.
I get my first LING and Dan steals all the GLORY!! WTF?!
here's a pic of the hole in the "V" of the hule.......like a hot knife thru butta'
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Just in time for the 20th anniversary of "Shark Week". July 29- Aug 4th...
Interestingly enough.. the main event of this years Shark Week on the Discovery Channel is a movie called "Ocean of Fear" and is about the USS Indianapolis during WWII. It sunk quickly after being torpedoed, but most of the crew actually died a day or so later in the largest recorded shark attack in history. Later, researchers trying to figure out what happened called the yellow life jackets everyone wore "yum yum yellow" as noted in Thomas B. Allen's "The Shark Almanac".
Brian
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couldn’t agree with you and with everyone on the importance of prerequisites and safety (dressed appropriately, right gears, fishing buddies, self rescue and other training, etc) and NCKA website has done a great job in many of these areas, especially in helping me rigged my kayak.
However it does not stress so much on the safety issues for beginners (or at least I have not seen any articles on them). I and most of everyone know common sense tells one to get trained/prepared as much as possible so not to put oneself and others at risk. The truth is not many beginners are taking this seriously until it becomes a reality. I am one of them and am guilty for thinking that I don’t really need it since I consider myself a strong swimmer (high school varsity swim team). SAL
Sal, If anyone owes an apology it is me. I used your wording for their shock value and must admit to get a rise. So Sal anytime I'll saddle up with you on the water.
I think that your poignant message needs more attention. Safety is an issue and if you rely on others for your safety well, "done deal". Life has a way of presenting itself on it's terms not mine. I dig the fact that you have skills in swimming which are always a benefit, please guys my past is exactly that. When the present shows up in unexpected ways the gift inside may not be to my liking. So expect the unexpected especially when it comes to Mother Nature. Preparation is the key to any survival situation and can make the deference.
It is not that I disown any Newbie on this board but I do not read minds. Besides my learning curve is keeping me in the Newbie frame of mind. Personally when I have all the answers that's when I getmyself in trouble.
This board is a great place to learn about the hype,prep and even some safety however, no responsibility lies with NCKA for your education with Kayaking. That my friends is on me, the individual.
Again Sal let's do this soon sometime. Love this sport Frankfishing
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Skygreen,
Many good points well made on about preparation, adequate training, decision making and on false sense of security that many beginner kayakers have. Let’s just hope our fellow kayakers would be willing (perhaps more willing that you stated) to assist otherwise it beats the purpose of the buddy system. Points well taken on everyone’s responsibility to get prepared/trained so not to put oneself and others in harms way. Just surprise that an assumption was quickly made that fingers were pointing and I somehow expected the veteran kayakers to come and save the day with the mention that no veterans were around at the incident. Not my intention at all. It’s probably Frank’s way of showing tough love that every newbie kayakers should have some survival rescue training prior to being in the open water, especially at BH? Totally agreed that most should seek the training.
SAL
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Scary!
Some kibitizing from Hawaii. Maybe sharing info will help all.
Lot's of guys here use the Aussie shark shield. Particularly with a fish on and during bleeding/stash away phase.
See:
http://www.sharkshield.com/Content/Home/
Several of us have tried various pattern blackstripes on the bottom also. Problem is paint comes off due to launch scrapes, etc.
We have tigers more than GWS. Tigers will check you out. Scary thing reported twice by one of our more experienced guys is they seem to know which way your facing and come up behind you. I have had this experience with small ones.
Reggie reports the fin sounds like sandpaper going through the water. Recommendation. When fishing in pairs even some distance apart, at regular intervals check the other guys rear view plane which he/she can't see. Come up with a short sentence warning code , maybe like "Fin to your rear"
I used to dive for abs in the cove just north of Rocky Point Inn almost 50 years ago. So I know how cold that water can be. The poster that told the wind story is right on. You'll never catch your yak when it blows away, and you don't want to stay in that water. I use a surf leash so my yak is always with me. You can disconnect it when landing or launching, but I would sure would wear one.
I've huli (capsized) several times out here, in high winds and remote spots. If you can't flip it over with all your gear hanging down by various leashes and get back in quickly you really should not be out there. Your really responsible for yourself.
Not sure if you could say it saved him, but looks like Dan was at least out of the GWS jaws getting back in his Adventure? Way to go.
I use an Adventure. I had a red one, and never experienced anything other than small ones looking me over. So I don't think it's the fins. My buddy has a yellowProwler 13. He's been looked at so many times he uses the Aussie Shield and painted stripes.
I'm getting a yellow hull replacement. Will see what the color effect is. I don't think it will make too much difference since I'm inclined to agree with the territorial arguments.
Look fwd to any more details of this attack.
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Cool post on the sharkshield! $AUS700 is a lot of money for the amount of time I spend on the water so I'd probably pass. For someone who is on the water as much as Mooch (or in the water as much as Frank :smt001) it might make sense...
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PSpark was working on a ghetto version of the shark shield at one time.
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Holy Crap!!! Not the kind of post I was expecting, nor want, to see coming in to the office on a monday. Glad everyone is ok.
When I fish HMB I'm usually in that general vicinity, I haven't gotten out much this season but I will give you guys
a heads up when I'm on the water. Not that it will calm any nerves or cure uneasyiness but you'll have a power assist on hand if it gets dangerous, weird or creepy out there...especially since the shark season is upon us.
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It’s probably Frank’s way of showing tough love that every newbie kayakers should have some survival rescue training prior to being in the open water, especially at BH? Totally agreed that most should seek the training.
SAL
Again sorry for using you like that but I would rather hurt on dry land rather than in a foreign enviroment. As Kevin said I have some experience being in the drink with the glass being half full because of my training. Some of the others have duely noted that when they heard about this incident my name immediately came to mind. Yes I have another moniker: Frankswimming, but I would rather a newbie learn from our experience vicariouly than first hand with no forewarning.
We are not certified to teach rescue and can only suggest. Love this sport, Frankfishing
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It seems strange....but the shark repelant that works is made from other sharks. It seems that sharks do not like the smell of another shark that has just die.
Ken kickfish
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Bill, I like to think of you more as a 'pRawn in nature's world', :smt005.
banished to the political forum? that is like a fate worse then death, :smt010.
J
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banished to the political forum? that is like a fate worse then death, :smt010.
J
You started this political stuff buddy :smt002
Z
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Sal - Until you are faced with a situation, you can only guess how you think will react, myself included.
It's easy to say you'd come to someone's rescue if they are being attacked by a bear, or by a shark, doing it is a whole other story.
Also, you have to keep in mind, that while you may know what you think you would (and you can) do, you never know for certain what someone else would or is capable of doing.
Do you know if the people with whom you are paddling with are capable of hoisting a 200 pound man (injured, or uninjured) onto their kayak from the water, without flipping their kayak in the process? Can you? How many people have ever done this?
I have witnessed many situations paddling with novice paddlers, (and advanced paddlers too), that when the weather elements turned bad, they weren't able to come to anyone's aid, not because they didn't want to, but because they were doing all they can to keep themselves upright.
I have seen where people have grown too tired to paddle, and someone else has had to tow them, which exhausted both people, which put both of their lives at risk.
I have seen advanced paddlers fend for themselves, and leave me with five other novice paddlers who all were on the verge of flipping due to extremely gusty winds, and leave someone else lost in an area of the lake where there was submerged trees so thick you could hardly paddle, and never gave it a second thought until I asked where the other man was.
It's been a real eye opening experience for me to see all of the terribly risky things people have done, when I began paddling with people for the first time last year, after being a solo paddler for over 27 years. To put it bluntly, it really made pay attention to who I should, and should not paddle with, because of the safety elements it presents to me, which goes back to it is your responsiblity to determine whether the situation you are placing yourself in is safe.
So to be on the safe side, always use good judgement in determining where you paddle and with whom you paddle. Someone else's inexperience can place you in harms way, so paddling with other people may actually place you at a higher risk than if you were paddling by yourself.
If you find yourself thinking you wouldn't do the paddle alone, don't do it with someone else, just because you think you'd be safer.
FOOT NOTE: When I am referring to you, I do not mean you specifically, rather you, people in general.
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Out of genuine concern for Dan, I think we all need to be sensitive to his needs and not pander to our insatiable desire for information (myself included).
I have been contacted by two news sources for permission to use the photos I posted and each said they have been unsuccessful in contacting Dan (as of 11 am this morning). This is not due to lack of effort on their part. I have to assume that, despite recurrent calls for his "first hand account", Dan is choosing to remain silent on the matter.
I don't know the cause, but can only reflect on the symptoms that victims of Post Traumatic Stress experience:
Harrowing and distressing reexperiencing of the event
Nightmares
Intrussive recollections
Flashbacks (real-time replays of the experience).
Persistenct avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and emotional numbing which include:
Efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings or conversations assoiciated with the trauma
Efforts to avoid activities, places or people that arouse recollections of the trauma
Inability to recall important aspects of the trauma
Marked or diminished interest or participation in significant activities
Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others
Restricted range of emotional responses (eg. intimacy}
A sense of forshortened future
Persistent symptoms of increased arousal:
Sleep difficulty
Irritability or anger
Decreased concentration
Hypervigilance
Exaggerated startle response
Be aware, apparent calmness immediately after the event may not indicate the degree of distress being experienced since the psychological impact can be delayed.
My experience with this disorder is greatest from my treatment of Viet Nam Vets, but I'm sure Frank has a lot more experience with this.
Anyway, I think we need to be exquisitely sensitive to the possibility of this being in play and not continue to ask for information from Dan. I don't know Dan personally, but he may not even be reading this forum out of self-protection.
If, and when anyone makes contact with Dan, I would advise refraining from badgering him with questions. If he wants to talk...he will. If he doesn't leave him alone.
We don't need him to be a mascot for our need to feel machismo. Expecting someone to be "strong", when he may feel like crap, only puts him in an emotional straight jacket. He's not allowed to even feel real
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hey the Political Forum is where the important stuff happens! :smt006 come on over to my side john!
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Marmite, thank you for your post. In the excitement this kind of thing generates, its easy to lose sight of that and become our own type of "paparazzi".
-Sean
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Thanks for chiming in on the residual effects of P.T.S.D. Your a real pro Doug.
Most of us with this type of experience who finally admit the trauma will in time talk about it in due course and on our terms.
No Dan does not need to be hounded so guys give it a rest. I think most of you have heard of the term P.T.S.D. and I think it healthy that it be mentioned more for the uninformed then those who have gone through it or going through it. But as I have heard and firmly believe,"the pathway to hell is lined with good intentions".
Dan, anonymity is a phrase that I hold dearly. Again if you need to talk fill free to call me with the understanding that, what is said between us remains between us. I have talked to Doug on the water a couple of times and their is a chance he would too be willing to listen and a great source of educated practical knowledge.
Frank
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Funny how other people's pain can deeply effect you. Even nearly 20 years later, just thinking about those vets makes me want to cry.
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It can be important to seek attention for incipient signs of PTSD. I'm not as up on the treatment now that I don't deal with a steady stream of trauma survivors. But I know there is a lot of research on ways to limit the severity of symptoms that our returning combat vets are enduring. Seems the extreme heightend adrenalin outflow from the central nervous system may overload the limbic circuits (involved with emotional/fear/memory responses) and imprint or brand the event in our brain. In effect making a software problem a hardware problem. Some meds, like beta blockers (which reduce sympathetic (fright or flight) tone or serotonergic antidepressants (like Zoloft etc.) can blunt these extreme physiologic responses and perhaps reduce the risk of long term symptoms.
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Got a call from Dan earlier today. He's doing fine but just a little bit too overwhelmed with all the attention he's been getting. I simply told him to talk when he is good and ready. I gave him Paul Lebowitz (PAL) phone number since he's our most trusted and favorite fellow kayak fisherman / writer from So Cal.
For those of you who don't know Paul, he wrote a great article on the kayak fishing in Big Sur with our beloved brother - Steve Blackwell aka "Chef" (RIP). Paul also helped organize our "Unfinished Business Trip" for Chef on the mothership Islander where 20 of NCKA'ers got together and to say their goodbyes to a fallen comrad.
The funny thing I remember well about Dan (the day of the attack) was that he was more upset of the fact that he no longer has a kayak to use on the weekends :smt003 I offered him my extra kayak but he politely declined :smt002 What a cool cat!! :smt002
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he was more upset of the fact that he no longer has a kayak to use on the weekends
eh, those scratches'll buff right out :smt003
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Da media sharks smell blood in the water...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/23/BAGE8R5B1M15.DTL&tsp=1
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I've been diving with a shark shield this year including last week at BH and for better or worse, I'm still here. I paid $450 for the Freedom 4; now they have Freedom 7. This is where I got mine:
http://handltackle.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=533 (http://handltackle.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=533)
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Da media sharks smell blood in the water...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/23/BAGE8R5B1M15.DTL&tsp=1
D'oh they link back to us... prepare for some server loading. Just wait until the AP, blogs, DIGG, etc.. get a hold of this.
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Just talked with Dan and just wants all to know that he is fine. Sounded like Dan just needs time to sort things then he'll tell his story. Love this sport Frankfishing
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Da media sharks smell blood in the water...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/23/BAGE8R5B1M15.DTL&tsp=1
D'oh they link back to us... prepare for some server loading. Just wait until the AP, blogs, DIGG, etc.. get a hold of this.
Bill should have a link for Tshirts up! Does anyone know who the Hobie rep is? The damaged yak would be awesome at the boat shows!
-Brian G
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No kidding Brian! This is gonna be some relatively big publicity - the story currently ranks as #1 most read current report at sfgate.com.
Some yutz said "what's noteworthy about this...?" Sheesh - apparently sfgate.com readers find otherwise.
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ohh snap! thats intense. Im glad all of you that were out there are ok. thats some scary s#i*
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There was definitely some traffic on the site, I could not get on earlier, got some message that I could not access the Database, because the server was busy or something.
I will just echo most of the sentiments already posted, I am very glad that Dan is okay, and all turned out how it did, I don't know how I would have reacted to such an event, I can only hope and pray I would handle it like Dan did. It was nice to see that people were back out at the bean the next day, while Dan's Meeting with the lanlord is absolutely frightening, As stated in other posts earlier it is still statistically rare. I will be very patiently ,out of respect for Dan, awaiting his story, if and when he wants to share it.
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Does anyone know who the Hobie rep is? The damaged yak would be awesome at the boat shows!
I really don't think kayak vendors in general, and Hobbie specifically, welcome this kind of publicity. I can think of enough people that I have encouraged to try kayaking/kayak fishing who would be dissuaded by such a story. They want to focus on the fun and safety of the sport, not the dangers. And I don't think Hobbie would like to hear anymore speculation about how their fins might be shark attractants.
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Some yutz said "what's noteworthy about this...?" Sheesh - apparently sfgate.com readers find otherwise.
Losers that troll news sites posting their $.002 in the comments section looking for attention don't warrant a response. Let the Yutz ramble....nothing he says is noteworthy.
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Oops - I guess I just joined that little club myself, twice (I guess I threw in .004, so maybe that helps my case..?)
I feel better, tho', thanks! Good thing they have a 1000 character limit to their posts. I have been gettin' afraid this year that Bill is gonna start doin somethin like that just for me here :smt003
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I am reloading these pictures that I sent in response to Allen's original request to get accurate information ASAP. After not hearing anything from Dan during the ensuing hours I decided to remove them until I was sure that it was OK with him for them to be displayed. After reading my own post I didn't want to contribute to him hearing, "Hey aren't you the guy..." for a long time.
I just heard from Joel that Dan's OK with this facial shot so I have restored the pics incase some still haven't seen them.
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Wow...
108 Guests, 23 Users
Users active in past 15 minutes:
Guests, please check out the classified section here and also check out NCKA Shop link above.
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here's our thread from 2005 that Bill decided for some reason to move to fish talk where nobody could read it, :smt011.
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=2516.0
of course, most web site owners would have just nuked it due to it being uncomfortable.
But I think it's kind of cool we forsaw it.
:smt006
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Hey All,
Just got a call from Ken Wayne of Channel 2 news,
Have no idea how/why they called me :smt004, but I gave him Mooch's #,
They really want to talk to Dan!!!! I told them that would probably not happen....
He said there would be a story tonight on the 10:00 news,
Hang in there Dan,
Were all behind ya, glad your well ..........Danglin
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Someone at the PFIC board said that they already reported it on tv on KTVU.
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here's our thread from 2005 that Bill decided for some reason to move to fish talk where nobody could read it, :smt011.
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=2516.0
of course, most web site owners would have just nuked it due to it being uncomfortable.
But I think it's kind of cool we forsaw it.
:smt006
Why can't people read it there?
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Heads up I am getting interviewed for NBC11.
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Heads up I am getting interviewed for NBC11.
Goooooo papaBill!
BTW. expect a rush of newbs really soon..
Z
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why can't people read it there? they can, that's why I put a link to it.
Bill, I hope I don't have to explain html to you again, :smt002.
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Holy Crap Dan! Glad to hear you're alright.
By the way, remind me never to yak with you. You won't be at Elk.....with you? :smt005
If it were me......I'd just patch the hole(s) and keep paddling. It would make Great conversation!
Once again, glad to hear you didn't get hurt!
CHEERS!
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when will your interview air.
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why can't people read it there? they can, that's why I put a link to it.
Bill, I hope I don't have to explain html to you again, :smt002.
Yes please I need a refresher course! :smt003 Maybe you meant nobody would read it? I was just checking to make sure something was broken. I can hear my server screaming from my office.
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Heads up I am getting interviewed for NBC11.
Goooooo papaBill!
BTW. expect a rush of newbs really soon..
Z
hi all, my dad and I joined this forum about a week before Bean Hollow, I hope that Dan does not have any bad memorys from this encounter.
-Walker(son), Steve(dad, rocketman)
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when will your interview air.
I guess tonight, they have not arrived yet.
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super cool bill. get ready to "represent". :smt002
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Im watching TV and Channel 2 news at 10PM is going to have the story........Dan your a star!!! no Mahi Mahi your a porn star........
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Wow! I am glad everyone is OK. It sounds like all who were there acted appropriately in light of the situation. Congratulations.
I was planning on fishing Bean Saturday but woke up late so I went to Coral St. instead. Thank goodness for small events. Your adventure makes my 20-inch Vermillion into bait fish.
When I logged in today I never thought I was about to start reading a post as long as Harry Potter with an evil land lord every bit the equal of "he who shall not be named." :smt005
Take care. NCKA is the best.
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Go Get Em Hollywood :smt004
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Ok I am done, hopefully I don't look/sound like a total ass.
On during the 11 o'clock show.
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Hi all....I'm new to the yak fishing community and was blown away by what I read on this forum this morning...It appears Dan lived through a paddlers worst nightmare....I emailed George Burgess who is the Coordinator of Museum Operations /Director Florida Program for Shark Research and International Shark Attack File Web Editor...I thought he would be interested in documenting this incident for the International Shark Attack File and it appears that was an accurate assessment...See the email exchange below...If anyone knows Dan and is in contact with him please let him know there are concerned paddlers around the country that wish him the best and ask him if he is up to contacting George to give his account of the attack....George's phone number and email address can be found below...
Thanks a lot, Mike, we will follow up. Just scanned the exchange quickly - do you know "Dan"'s last name, email address or contact info?
best-
George
--
George H. Burgess
Director
Florida Program for Shark Research
Florida Museum of Natural History
University of Florida
P O Box 117800
Gainesville, FL 32611
gburgess@flmnh.ufl.edu
(352) 392-2360
FAX 352-392-7158
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish
Mike Gibbons wrote:
Hi George,
I just read a post on a Kayak Fishing site about a Great White attack on a kayak...I thought you may be interested...No injuries to report other than a damaged 16' Hobie kayak....Here is the link....Have a good one
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=9174.0
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d as for yum yum yellow... I'm convinced that it got that name because it has historically been the most prevalent color in sit-on-top kayaks, hence the highest probability of being hit. That is changing now with the variety on the market.
It comes from an old bit of research in the shark attack on downed airmen and sailors--they thought maybe sharks were color sensitive. Yellow seemed to be attacked more, hence the name.
I know what I said was controversial--we all like to think we as human are separate from nature and above it and that none of its creatures is as sophisticated in their element or refined as us for even their purpose.
But if I take a step back an look at shark attacks on kayaks, they don't fit a prey pattern. Sure, they are where prey congregates--but what earthly reason does a GWS have to go were there isn't food? No other animals leave fertile territory for barren space--why should it? The Albacore, Halibut, and other fish follow the food.
I admit to speculation. The thing is we just don't know what a GWS is doing--we know so little. I do know that GWs with radio collars have migrated 1,100 miles! And then come back. That puts them closer to whales and bears in sophistication. We have no problem thinking a Grizzly or a Polar Bear would attack an interloper on its territory. We now land animals and territory protection (even Badgers, Foxes, and squirrels do it). We know Peregrine Falcons, Hawks, and Eagles protect their territory. So just because the GWs is an apex predator in the sea, we assume its stupid because it is an element so foreign to us we cannot imagine a creature so a home in it as a Grizzly is in the Rockies? So why do we ignorant humans assume the GWS is more like a Halibut or Ling Cod than a Grizzly?
I know this--all territorial predators protect their territory--not one doesn't: on land or in the air. So, researchers having established GWS are territorial, we can assume they too protect theirs. It's just a medium change, albeit one we understand very little because it is so foreign to us.
The simple fact is we are trying to figure out a pattern and my explanation fits simply (Occam's Razor) while the prey idea doesn't hold up well given the very different sizes of kayak to sea lions, the different locomotion in water, the fact that kayakers aren't EVER attacked when the fall in, attacks are not always near active prey, but certainly in hunting grounds or territory, etc. Radio-collar surveys have shown GWS to patrol a territory day in and day out. Sounds like a sea-based Polar Bear to me.
Sure its conjecture--but it's based on facts, analysis, analogies, and thought. It may be wrong, but it isn't bullshit like one here has said. All theories should be considered--especially when the current ones don't work.
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Humans are certainly not above nature. We are increasingly separating ourselves from it but at what cost? I think that the lack of respect for nature displayed by some on this forum is a symptom or our disconnection. Personally, one reason I hunt and fish is so that I can look my food in the eye and comprehend what went into making it my food. Sure we could wipe out all the GWSs if we wanted to, but they occupy an important niche. Truth be told, the one species that this planet would be better off without is Homo sapiens.
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Because we humans are so out of our element in the sea, we have a tendency to view it with our limited myopic vision--as a complex but rather chaotic ecosystems with far less sophistication than our own. Yet if we would but think a little about we have recently discovered there, we'd realize that in some ways it surpasses our environment in complexity and intricate design evolved through millenia of evolution.
For example, find me an analogy to reef cleaner stations where Groupers line up to be pecked on by tiny cleaner fish--who even enter their mouths! Despite the hints dropped by such outstanding and unprecedented, on land at least, phenomena we still arrogantly refuse to blieve a GSw could be at least as sophisticated as a Grizzly.
Man's arrogance has no limits as does his ignorance as has been displayed in some posts here.
One of the most unfortunate facts life I have found is that some of those who love the outdoors as I do, have some of the most conservative, narrow, myopic, illogical, closed, ignorant, and arrogant minds I have ever met. Though I miss the company of many of you, I miss not a minute of them at all.
Dan, peace and great fishing days ahead. I hope to glide over to say hello to a fellow kayaker one day somewhere day and be greeted by that grin of yours. Fish well brother.
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Just saw Channel 2 news. Good report, no Danglin siting though...
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But if I take a step back an look at shark attacks on kayaks, they don't fit a prey pattern.
marmot, what are you talking about? the GWS hits big prey on the surface from the bottom.
an elephant seal can be 20 feet long and it gets hit. see the photos on www.pelagic.org of the scarred elephant seals.
(http://www.pelagic.org/pics/image_lib_pics2/pel53.jpg)
The shark doesn't know that the person is separate from the kayak. that's why it doesn't go after the person.
It wants to eat the kayak. It hits the kayak. the kayak tastes bad. it goes away.
(I do agree that it did not hit with full force this time thank goodness. case at jenner different story...)
your post is self contradictory on so many points, I don't know where to start. A animal doesn't leave food but at the same time crosses the (largely barren) ocean? so which is it?
the shark is smart but can't figure out he should eat the tasty morsel that falls out of the plastic thing? so which is it?
marmot you are a smart well spoken guy, but when I said you spoke out of your ass I didn't mean it was BS just that you are speculating, speaking from the cuff, which you admit to. but you are making it worse.
the issue is going to be when the person gets between the kayak and the shark by accident whether it's territorial or prey or exploratory, the shark is interested in the kayak, not the person. but the person might
get in the way and he's going to get all cut up at best.
J
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Truth be told, the one species that this planet would be better off without is Homo sapiens.
uh.... okay.....
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Bill, short segment but I can tell you're a natural. :smt003
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Nice job Bill - proud to be NCKA - who-yah!! :smt003
Kim
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That was weird man, watching yourself on TV.
Dan I hope i didn't say anything to retarded :drool
Doug I gave a nice speech about safety and the hazards of the ocean just for you, sadly they cut it. :smt009
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Bill,
You looked cool, calm, collected, and smiley.
Kim
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That was weird man, watching yourself on TV.
Dan I hope i didn't say anything to retarded :drool
You did very well. Except for the part when referring to the media as sharks. :smt002
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Nice job Bill, :smt004
Liked the Fashion show with the New gear :thumleft: :thumright:
Much better report than channel 2, Hell they even let a Serria Clubber in on it :puker: :scratch:
I had nothing to do with Channel 2 news, for some reason they called me, don't know how they got my #,
All I did was help them get in contact with Marmite, But,
If it was me who was hit and survived....
I'd be on Letterman tonight, got to parlay these things :smt005
Nice Job, like the Gear :smt002...........Danglin
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Here's an article in the SF Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/24/SHARK.TMP
Just saw Channel 2 news. Good report, no Danglin siting though...
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Good job Bill!!! Way to represent. But they got your title wrong... I thought you were our Grand Poobah... you should have worn your fez.
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WOW- amazing story. Glad everyone is ok. I dont want to admit it, but this is the reason that has kept me out of the water for the last 9 months. I was with cafe craig when the shark swam by his yak at BH, and i almost shat my wet suit. it is amazing how one reacts to these situations. glad that dan and others were able to keep their cool.
I thought i was prepared to see a shark last October, because i had an 18" dowel in my milk crate and pool noodles, but when it came down to the situation, i was too freeked to even remember it was there. But one thing is for sure- im not going out again in to the ocean until i buy a marine radio.
ever since then i have been thinking of everything to put on top of my yak, so if this rare situation happens to me, i could deploy it, and the shark with swim off. i thought of everything from powdered soap, bleach, pine sol, crazy music- but who knows what will de-attract the shark with out trial and error. theres got to be something out there.
hope to get out there again
paul g
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"...it's not likely to dissuade die-hard surfers and kayakers..."
got that straight... :kungfu
james
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Dan if you read the SF Chronicle story, sorry about this quote:
"Either he's having post-traumatic stress or his wife has taken away all his fishing stuff," he said. "What I think is interesting is everybody thinks the sharks are looking for food ... but maybe they are sending us a territorial message to get out of their backyard."
The reporter just emailed me that she wanted permission to use my photos. I told her that I really didn't know any details because I wasn't there. She said she had talked to some other members and I didn't realize that she was going to quote me as a source.
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Bill,
You were great and having the logo to show off was perfect for the occasion! I am so glad that Eric and Brian made the effort to come up with such a great design.
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Doh! We don't get it up here. Hopefully they'll put it up on their site.
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Greetings from the Great White North's Kayak Fishing in Kanada forum. Been reading about the story and browsing the understandably long thread. We're glad it turned out well. Is that a picture of Dan on the main page of http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com? It looks like someone cut and paste the top half of his head on there. You sure the attack wasn't worse then you're letting on?
John Wade
http://www.johnwade.ca/KayakFishingInKanada (http://www.johnwade.ca/KayakFishingInKanada)
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For those who missed the Channel 2 story, here's a video link. I had to watch the video too since my TV reception stinks whenever the computer is up and running.
http://www.ktvu.com/video/13741700/index.html
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Dan glad to hear your O.K. Are you ready for some bass fishing now? :smt006
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a different view of the damage.....
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Hmmm- Bass, stripers, trout, crappies, walleye. I see alot of freshwater post in the near future.
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I've been diving with a shark shield this year including last week at BH and for better or worse, I'm still here. I paid $450 for the Freedom 4; now they have Freedom 7. This is where I got mine:
http://handltackle.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=533 (http://handltackle.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=533)
I emailed sharkshield yesterday asking about a single product that could be used for both kayak fishing and free diving and they wrote back the Freedom 7. For use on the kayak just stuff the antenna down a scupper or over the side and then put it on your ankle to freedive. It is a little expensive but I am putting some serious thought into this. In my 500-600 price range of gear I want/need I really only have a pair of EPIRB's, I think the Freedom 7 just moved to the top on my list as I am not exactly paddling anywhere lately that the EPIRB would actually benefit me.
Jeff
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I was listening to KGO on the way to work and there was a brief mention of the attack on the ABC national feed.
Crazy!
I am emailing NBC11 to see if they are going to post the video online.
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I just wrapped up an interview with Sean Van Sommeran, Executive Director of the Pelagic Shark Research Foundation. He had a lot of interesting things to say - I won't make you wait for the story, I'll summarize them in a separate post later.
In the meantime, Sommeran said he had tested electronic products designed to deter sharks. He likens them to car alarms. Just as we wouldn't enjoy lingering by a blaring alarm, most sharks will keep their distance. A shark determined on predation may ignore it. Another factor: like a car alarm might get a glance from everyone in the area, a continuously operated anti-shark device may actually attract sharks from a distance.
As used by successfully by kayakers in Hawaii to deter curious tiger sharks (something I've seen with my own eyes), when suddenly turned on the devices startle the animals like a sudden aggressive shout might spook a mountain lion.
Sommeran said he considers these devices are one item to have in your tool case, but shouldn't be considered failsafe.
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For those who missed the Channel 2 story, here's a video link. I had to watch the video too since my TV reception stinks whenever the computer is up and running.
http://www.ktvu.com/video/13741700/index.html
It never ceases to amaze me how the news can't state the facts but has to make it so dramatic. :smt011 They didn't even interview any sources of the incident on camera. Irresponsible journalism.. makes you wonder what other stories they "connect the dots" by themselves for.
Good blurb about ncka.com though!
Z
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Yeah the blurb of ABC radio news was pretty bad. Something like "Kayak shredded, man survives." Shredded? Please! You want to see shredded go watch Omar Hassan skate a pool :smt003
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They didn't even interview any sources of the incident on camera. Irresponsible journalism
I don't think it was necessarily for lack of trying. I know I had four or five reporters contact me only because they wanted permission to use my pictures. Each said they wanted to interview me but I told them that I was only peripherally involved and that they should try and contact Dan or others like SAL who could give first-hand accounts of what happened. But they seemed to all be having trouble finding people to talk to and they all seemed to be working under pretty tight deadlines to get their stories out while it was still news worthy.
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http://www.examiner.com/a-843249~Shark_attacks_man_off_Peninsula_coast.html
Shark attacks man off Peninsula coast
9 hrs ago » Shark attacks man off Peninsula coast «
Printer Friendly | PDF | Email
Jul 24, 2007 6:00 AM (9 hrs ago)
by Tamara Barak, The Examiner
Font Size: a a A A
Current rank: # 14 of 6,989 Add to My News
Post your comments
(Courtesy photo)
A great white shark left bite marks on Dan Prather’s kayak while the San Leandro resident was fishing off the coast near Pescadero on Monday. SAN FRANCISCO (Map, News) - When Dan Prather’s fishing buddies heard him call for help on his handheld radio during a weekend trip to the San Mateo County coast, they figured he needed someone to lend a hand with a big catch.
Indeed, it was a whopper of a fish — a great white shark that attacked Prather’s kayak, throwing him into the sea and sinking its teeth into the nose of the small boat.
Prather, who had been adjusting his lure before the 10:15 a.m. attack, thought he had been struck by another boat, said John Dale of Foster City, who was part of the group of kayak anglers who accompanied Prather to Bean Hollow State Beach near Pescadero.
“He didn’t think it was a shark until he saw it attached to the front of his boat, gnawing on it,” Dale said.
Prather scrambled back into his kayak, but the force of the attack had knocked his seat loose and he fell out two more times. The shark swam away, leaving Prather’s kayak with multiple scratches and punctures in its bottom.
While Prather’s friends said he’s not ready to talk publicly about the attack, they said the San Leandro resident never lost his cool — or his sense of humor — during the ordeal.
“He told me, ‘I caught a couple fish ... and a shark,’” Dale recalled.
Angler Joel Lotilla of Millbrae said Prather was a study in restraint when he reached the shore, calmly opening a beer and lamenting that he wouldn’t be able to use his kayak the following weekend.
Carrie Wilson, a marine biologist for the state Department of Fish and Game, said the area is part of the Red Triangle, named for its dense population of sharks. The region extends roughly from Bodega Bay to beyond the Farallon Islands and south to Big Sur.
There are more sharks in the area because of the many seals, sea lions and elephant seals.
According to statistics from the Department of Fish and Game, only 10 people have died in great white shark attacks in California since the 1920s.
Karl Tallman, public safety superintendent for state parks in the area, said officials don’t plan to close the beach because the attack happened a mile off shore.
tbarak@examiner.com
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They didn't even interview any sources of the incident on camera. Irresponsible journalism
I don't think it was necessarily for lack of trying. I know I had four or five reporters contact me only because they wanted permission to use my pictures. Each said they wanted to interview me but I told them that I was only peripherally involved and that they should try and contact Dan or others like SAL who could give first-hand accounts of what happened. But they seemed to all be having trouble finding people to talk to and they all seemed to be working under pretty tight deadlines to get their stories out while it was still news worthy.
I see where you're coming from Marmite but I think my point is a little different. My whole point is if they want to give details about the account calling it "frightening" and overall giving it a harrowing tone they better be getting that quote from a reliable source, not just what they found on a website because they want to use it now while it's "news worthy". I could make up anything on a website but should that be told to the masses as fact? Obviously it was frightening and harrowing but sensationalizing the event w/o backing up the story with personal accounts is irresponsible journalism. At this point, they should state what they found, note that it was an ongoing investigation and they'd have more details when they're available. That way the public is informed and not swayed emotionally just because they were impatient. The media has a lot of power and it should be used with much more care than what is currently being done.
Z
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http://www.examiner.com/a-843249~Shark_attacks_man_off_Peninsula_coast.html
Shark attacks man off Peninsula coast
9 hrs ago » Shark attacks man off Peninsula coast «
Printer Friendly | PDF | Email
Jul 24, 2007 6:00 AM (9 hrs ago)
by Tamara Barak, The Examiner
Font Size: a a A A
Current rank: # 14 of 6,989 Add to My News
Post your comments
(Courtesy photo)
A great white shark left bite marks on Dan Prather’s kayak while the San Leandro resident was fishing off the coast near Pescadero on Monday. SAN FRANCISCO (Map, News) - When Dan Prather’s fishing buddies heard him call for help on his handheld radio during a weekend trip to the San Mateo County coast, they figured he needed someone to lend a hand with a big catch.
Indeed, it was a whopper of a fish — a great white shark that attacked Prather’s kayak, throwing him into the sea and sinking its teeth into the nose of the small boat.
Prather, who had been adjusting his lure before the 10:15 a.m. attack, thought he had been struck by another boat, said John Dale of Foster City, who was part of the group of kayak anglers who accompanied Prather to Bean Hollow State Beach near Pescadero.
“He didn’t think it was a shark until he saw it attached to the front of his boat, gnawing on it,” Dale said.
Prather scrambled back into his kayak, but the force of the attack had knocked his seat loose and he fell out two more times. The shark swam away, leaving Prather’s kayak with multiple scratches and punctures in its bottom.
While Prather’s friends said he’s not ready to talk publicly about the attack, they said the San Leandro resident never lost his cool — or his sense of humor — during the ordeal.
“He told me, ‘I caught a couple fish ... and a shark,’” Dale recalled.
Angler Joel Lotilla of Millbrae said Prather was a study in restraint when he reached the shore, calmly opening a beer and lamenting that he wouldn’t be able to use his kayak the following weekend.
Carrie Wilson, a marine biologist for the state Department of Fish and Game, said the area is part of the Red Triangle, named for its dense population of sharks. The region extends roughly from Bodega Bay to beyond the Farallon Islands and south to Big Sur.
There are more sharks in the area because of the many seals, sea lions and elephant seals.
According to statistics from the Department of Fish and Game, only 10 people have died in great white shark attacks in California since the 1920s.
Karl Tallman, public safety superintendent for state parks in the area, said officials don’t plan to close the beach because the attack happened a mile off shore.
tbarak@examiner.com
See the difference here? Now that's good journalism! :smt002 I wish the TV could talk like that!
Z
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Hello All. The Riddler here from Boston MA. Dan, I don't know you but glad you are alright. Staying cool in a very tense situation! Your experience will help all. Good job to everyone to get to Dan right away for support. I am watching this thread closely here to learn and apply if and when the time happens. If an article could be produced later on down the road to help others that would be a bonus.
We, the kayak anglers of New England, also fall under the possibility of an encounter with a GWS. The Great Grey seal population has exploded in the last 10 years. No more bounties on seal noses since the 70's. Every once in a while a large seal will get taken down around Monomoy and Nauset areas of the Cape. These are known areas for large sharks of all types and confirmed GWS. My home water's are in the Boston Harbor area but I do enjoy following the Striped Bass migration in the fall especially down to the outer Cape at Nauset.
Great website, keep up the good work!
Respectfully
Jeffrey Lopez
The Riddler
Boston, MA
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Read this an then try and tell me "Bitehead" wasn't chasing the Whaler off his Sea Lion kill:
http://www.devilsteeth.net/aboutthebook.htm (http://www.devilsteeth.net/aboutthebook.htm)
Read this if you think GWS are not sophisticated predators capable of territory defending behavior:
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1006/1006_feature.html (http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1006/1006_feature.html)
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KGO is now reporting it as "alleged" seems pretty good since no media has spoken to the person involved directly as far as I know.
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KGO is now reporting it as "alleged" seems pretty good since no media has spoken to the person involved directly as far as I know.
Ha ha, thats awesome. Lot of alleged dodo heads viewing and posting on this topic. JTF..
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If you want to see a verified dodo head watch my NBC11 footage here - http://video.nbc11.com/player/?id=132726
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I just read the story in the Merc and had to run to the site.
Dan, glad your ok man.
Everyone, that is what happens in the land of the man in the Grey Suit. Live with it.
Bill, boy did NBC cut your interview up into little shreds or what? I hate how you interview with a TV type for like an hour and they pare it down to 10 seconds.......
Sometimes I thank God for seasickness......
MolBasser
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Read this an then try and tell me "Bitehead" wasn't chasing the Whaler off his Sea Lion kill:
http://www.devilsteeth.net/aboutthebook.htm (http://www.devilsteeth.net/aboutthebook.htm)
do you mean the part where "bitehead" decapitates the elephant seal? that seems like a prey event... :smt003.
maybe the shark was going to decapitate the hobie? It did bite the nose of it...
besides, kill defending is not quite the same as territory defending is it?
point is we don't know what the shark was doing exactly. to assume it was territorial is just premature: cargo cult science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
that book is a bunch of starry-eyed granola-eating tree-hugging mush, imo.
so she went to a deserted island to hang with two dudes? hmm... :3some:
sure she had a great time, but I'll wait for the video...
Read this if you think GWS are not sophisticated predators capable of territory defending behavior:
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1006/1006_feature.html (http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1006/1006_feature.html)
let's hope the one that hit dan's boat is explaining his lessons to the other sharks using his sophisticated intelligence!
(http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1006/images/1006feature5.jpg)
Fool me once . . . . Another shark falls for the decoy. After one or two strikes, however, most get wise to the ruse.
Photo by Neil Hammerschlag
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Wow, what a tale. Glad things turned out OK.
Yup, I think FW fishing just got more popular, although I'm sure you diehard salties won't let a few scratches on a yak scare you away.
Nice interview Bill.
I'd suggest we start a pool to buy Dan a new yak, but he sounds like the kinda guy who would turn down the offer.
Dan, you are THE MAN!
Oh yeah, I came across another yak site where someone posted a pic and link to the story. The first response was some knucklehaed who questioned the validity of the story.
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Nice job Bill!
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Forgive me for asking, but has "Dan" posted here yet? I haven't seen it of he has. It's like talking to a kid who's playing a video game........very one sided.
CHEERS!
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this a picture of the port side.When i looked at Sat. you could definitely see the Arch of the teeth bill
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If we can get a measurement on that arch, we can estimate the length..
(http://homepage.mac.com/mollet/Cc/CcMorphometrics/MOW.gif)
I haven't tracked down the original reference for this yet, but here is the website I found this on.
http://homepage.mac.com/mollet/Cc/CcMorphometrics/Morphometrics.html (http://homepage.mac.com/mollet/Cc/CcMorphometrics/Morphometrics.html)
Brian
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Guys.... let's do our new site visitors a big favor and move any future shark discussions not specifically related to this incident over to the....
Official GWS Thread in our Fish Talk forum at:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=2516.0
Thanks!
ChuckE
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Wow, run off to portland for an extended weekend and all hell breaks loose at BH. Looks like the stats are around 1/200 to see a GWS and 1/300-1/400 to get nibbled by one - guestimating (liberally) that we've had about 400 kayaking trips out there in the last few years. I'm glad everyone's okay, I'd hate to be plugging a spot that gets someone KIA. Easy on the surf hyperbole too, nobody's 'broken their back' there, but a few fishing rods have. ;) I'll reserve judgement on hobies for now, but if the next attack is against a hobie I'll have to consider little flippers under a boat as a liability. I'm curious though how deep the water was where the attack happened. The news said a mile offshore, is that from GPS or were y'all just 'a ways out'? 1 mile out should be about 70ft deep - which is unusual because previous attacks have occurred in shallow water. The big wash rock is ~1/4 mile out and is more typical of GWS attack locations.
I did indeed design and build a shark shield knockoff, but #1 I'm not all that concerned about sharks and #2 due to their rarity here it would be hard to test it. Perhaps this will motivate me to take it on the bay and see how it affects leopard sharks boatside. If it works out I'll see about posting schematics on how to build one's own and put it in a lock-n-lock running off the FF battery for $30 instead of $450. My design replicates the shocks produced by an electric ray, which the commercial versions do as well but don't advertise because it might void some IP. It's just a boost power converter to bump 12V up to 45-70V and a couple oscillators in series so you get trains of 10-20 6ms pulses spaced about 1s apart. That's what comes out of a ray, some tweaking might evoke a better response but I suspect it's mostly a matter of voltage and finding a happy medium between safe for someone in the water (not paralyzing) but unbearable to a shark.
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I'm curious though how deep the water was where the attack happened.
It was confirmed that Dan was fishing in 50 FOW when the attack happened.
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Guys.... let's do our new site visitors a big favor and move any future shark discussions not specifically related to this incident over to the....
Official GWS Thread in our Fish Talk forum at:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=2516.0
Thanks!
ChuckE
Fine, but why is that thread in 'Fish Talk'? It's clearly some form of banishment. Given the now non-speculative nature of all
that talk, I think that thread deserves a more respectful home.
J
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Guys.... let's do our new site visitors a big favor and move any future shark discussions not specifically related to this incident over to the Official GWS Thread in our Fish Talk forum
Fine, but why is that thread in 'Fish Talk'? It's clearly some form of banishment.
From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Main Entry: 1shark
Pronunciation: \ˈshärk\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English
Date: 15th century
: any of numerous mostly marine cartilaginous fishes of medium to large size that have a fusiform body, lateral branchial clefts, and a tough usually dull gray skin roughened by minute tubercles and are typically active predators sometimes dangerous to humans
— shark·like \ˈshärk-ˌlīk\ adjective
Let's get past this banter and get on with fishing.
Janice aka "Big J"
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Guess I should throw in my thoughts and will say that it was shocking to find out about it on the 10:00 news on Monday.
First, Dan I am glad you are OK and like Mooch have an extra kayak you can use until your boat is repaired. PM me if you are interested.
Second, it will take some time for me to think about whether I would do anything differently except for avoiding BH in the future. I think chances are greater of being killed in an auto accident than by a shark at BH but it would be hard to justify to my wife and family why I was fishing in an area where a shark had attacked a kayak when there are so many other places to fish. In addition there was the incident last year at BH with the coast guard rescue. Unfortunately Chinese are superstitious and although logic would say it was OK to fish there, I think I will have to leave the BH fish for the rest of the brave souls who will continue to fish there. If you find a way to improve the BH Feng Shui, I might join you.
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This is going to make me sound crazier than I already am but BH has a vibe to it. It is tough to explain but I don't usually feel normal and comfortable when I am there. This was way before this incident
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This is going to make me sound crazier than I already am but BH has a vibe to it. It is tough to explain but I don't usually feel normal and comfortable when I am there. This was way before this incident
I hear ya Bill.....my spider senses keep telling me to stay clear of Davenport / Scott Creek and the South side of Pedro Point :smt087
For those of you who have not paddled on the other side of Pedro Point (The Devils Slide area), there is a seal colony in this area. On one the calm days at linda Mar a few years ago, jdyak and I paddled all the way to Egg Rock by Devil's Slide....there were seals hanging out by the rocks and NONE of 'em were in the water....It seemed like they were alarmed as they kept their eyes on us the whole time. I felt very uneasy :smt011
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This is going to make me sound crazier than I already am but BH has a vibe to it. It is tough to explain but I don't usually feel normal and comfortable when I am there. This was way before this incident
Ditto. Part of it is history....
1) BH is near Pigeon Pt and Ano Nuevo, so no doubt it'll be sharky.
2) Most of the guys I know who have fished the Bean for years have had bad experiences there. Freddie's broken two Tiger Rods while crashing and burning the landing hard on two separate trips.
3) I've had my worse wipe out in the middle of the cove.
4) CafeCraig had a close encounter with whitey last September
5) Eugene "paddlefish" and his dad have actually seen a GW attacking a seal off nearby Pigeon Pt. Recently, Eugene had some run-ins with seals going nuts in the area.... and that spells nothing but trouble.
6) Frankfishing sunk a yak, became "Frankswimming", and got rescued at the Bean.
.... and I know there are more bad juju stories that I don't even know about. Beware fellas. It won't be the last incident there! :smt096
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I was ready for anything...but NOW?...your FREAKIN ME OUT!
I got my SCOPACE and am ready to hit the farallons next.
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Oh yeah, that coastal area has some funky juju for sure. Had a few GWS run-ins/sightings from Davenport all the way to HMB. Good to hear everyone's spider senses are working! :smt001 Great places for a fish or surf.. just keep that third eye open.. :smt002
Z
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1) BH is near Pigeon Pt and Ano Nuevo, so no doubt it'll be sharky.
Look at the known seal haul outs, Natural Bridges...Ano Nuevo....Farallon Islands. You got rally points like Davenport, Pigeon, BH, Sail Rock, Pedro Point holding fish. All the popular launch spots on the San Mateo coast are right in the commuter lane between hunting grounds. I wonder what local migration patterns are bewteen those spots and waht depth of water they're cruisin at.
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This is going to make me sound crazier than I already am but BH has a vibe to it. It is tough to explain but I don't usually feel normal and comfortable when I am there. This was way before this incident
Ditto. Part of it is history....
1) BH is near Pigeon Pt and Ano Nuevo, so no doubt it'll be sharky.
2) Most of the guys I know who have fished the Bean for years have had bad experiences there. Freddie's broken two Tiger Rods while crashing and burning the landing hard on two separate trips.
3) I've had my worse wipe out in the middle of the cove.
4) CafeCraig had a close encounter with whitey last September
5) Eugene "paddlefish" and his dad have actually seen a GW attacking a seal off nearby Pigeon Pt. Recently, Eugene had some run-ins with seals going nuts in the area.... and that spells nothing but trouble.
6) Frankfishing sunk a yak, became "Frankswimming", and got rescued at the Bean.
.... and I know there are more bad juju stories that I don't even know about. Beware fellas. It won't be the last incident there! :smt096
We should tell the MLPA folks that we will trade them BH, Davenport, Ano Nuevo and Piedras Blancas for Cambria, Carmel and Monterey and take away the temptation.
Scott
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I dunno... Except for LM, that makes (easily accessible) coastal fishing south of the gate for me pretty much out of reach... Bean is so rich and close, I dunno what I'd do without it.
I am thinkin that we're all "in play" anywhere from SC to Pt Reyes, actually Bodega area too - the odds might be higher in certain places, but are still heavily in our favor against an incident.
My takeaway is that chances of a full-on relentless assault against a 14'+ yak are extremely, extremely low, certainly low enough to keep me putting out to yakfish in the red triangle. (And when there are 18 yaks out instead of 6, we've just made the odds 200% higher.) Drive-bys and test bites are probably a lot more likely, but don't make me nearly as nervous as the thought did before.
I am however taking the new precaution of having a VHF when I launch from surf. While it was highly recommended before (esp. as my dry-bagged cell does no good for me in some places), I am now personally regarding it as essential equipment. (Another precaution - I'm not going out alone, like I did 3 weeks ago there.)
BTW.. Thanks Chuck for (repeatedly) reminding me of this, my run-in, in the past few days! :smt006 It's drilled in solid. My radio will be here Friday....
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OK, Ive got a hookup posted for the bean on sat, so I guess its safe to say thats a no-go!
Muir salmon?
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Oh, and btw Bill, GREAT job on the interview! 'Cept of course sharks are much more evolved and safer than the media imo.
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hehehehe for sure :smt003
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Bill,
A Star is Born....just don't go "Hollywood" like Lindsey, Britney or anyone else that's "Too Hollywood for Us...right now".
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Ten Interesting Things I Read on the Internet About Great White Sharks
1.) California is a known area for great whites
2.) Large seals are frequently killed by a sudden burst of high speed that can throw the seal completely out of the water, with ”bite” and “spit” behavior, which is viewed by scientists as a defensive kill.
3.) Avoid paddling in murky waters and glassy surface conditions. Great whites stay mainly in near-surface waters, especially when hunting. The likelihood of an attack increases significantly when the water surface is calm, especially in the evening and early morning, when the sharks move closer to the shore in search of food. Attacks occur both in and out of the surf zone, at various depths and in clear or cloudy water, although sharks prefer cloudy water and areas near harbors, docks, jetties, bays, channels and rivers.
4.) Great Whites may react to people in the water as territory invaders that need to be chased off, possibly explaining the many single-bite attacks attributed to great whites where victims have survived.
5.) Blood is an attractant to sharks. Do not hang fish in the water over the side of boats. Most attacks occur during spear fishing because the blood in the water attracts sharks.
6.) Keep a watch out for shadows and movement around you in reduced visibility. Leave the water if a large group of fish around you behaves in an erratic manner, particularly near drop-offs or in channels.
7.) In the past, shark scientists have been divided on the theory that sharks can’t recognize the difference between a surfer and a sea lion, however recent evidence implies that sharks' senses are quite keen (making mistakes unlikely) and that one may attack indiscriminately simply because it's hungry.
8.) 79-90 percent of all attacks on humans occur at the water surface.
9.) About half of all divers attacked report having seen the shark prior to the attack; the other half were caught unaware.
10.) Avoid places where people have been bitten before, because great white sharks do attack in the same place twice.
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I dunno... Except for LM, that makes (easily accessible) coastal fishing south of the gate for me pretty much out of reach... Bean is so rich and close, I dunno what I'd do without it.
I am thinkin that we're all "in play" anywhere from SC to Pt Reyes, actually Bodega area too - the odds might be higher in certain places, but are still heavily in our favor against an incident.
My takeaway is that chances of a full-on relentless assault against a 14'+ yak are extremely, extremely low, certainly low enough to keep me putting out to yakfish in the red triangle. (And when there are 18 yaks out instead of 6, we've just made the odds 200% higher.) Drive-bys and test bites are probably a lot more likely, but don't make me nearly as nervous as the thought did before.
I am however taking the new precaution of having a VHF when I launch from surf. While it was highly recommended before (esp. as my dry-bagged cell does no good for me in some places), I am now personally regarding it as essential equipment. (Another precaution - I'm not going out alone, like I did 3 weeks ago there.)
BTW.. Thanks Chuck for (repeatedly) reminding me of this, my run-in, in the past few days! :smt006 It's drilled in solid. My radio will be here Friday....
Craig
Good luck out there. The VHF and a buddy (not me) are good ideas. Although expensive ($200) and never tested against a GWS, a bang stick might be a consideration just in case you end up in the water with the water with the landlord and need to defend yourself. The Navy tested them extensively and they do work.
Scott
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The VHF and a buddy (not me) are good ideas.
Aw c'mon, I thrink you are plenty big enough to make a shark full, Scott! :smt002
Thanks for the ideas! We'll fish again soon, somewhere...
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Paddlefish's Grooves:
I asked Eugene about the nature of the marks on his yak from the 7/12 incident with the baby seal. He forwarded his pic. Clearly the marks are quite different than those on Dan's yak. Dan's were either puncture (on the port side) or lacerations (on the starboard side). But Eugene's look more like grooves, and they are clustered quite close together. Thought I'd post them to see if other's, like Sean or Brian, who might know what baby seal teeth, or nails might be like, can make an assessment. Seems like it would take a fair amount of force to cut such deep grooves in the polyethylene.
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That's a really interesintg photo of Eugene's kayak. An otter maybe? Creature from the Black Lagoon? It does look a little like claw marks, almost in the shape of a paw.
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My takeaway is that chances of a full-on relentless assault against a 14'+ yak are extremely, extremely low, certainly low enough to keep me putting out to yakfish in the red triangle.
+1. I can't wait to get back out there now that I'm intimately familiar with the surrounding coastline. My VHF arrived yesterday.
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Guys.... let's do our new site visitors a big favor and move any future shark discussions not specifically related to this incident over to the Official GWS Thread in our Fish Talk forum
Fine, but why is that thread in 'Fish Talk'? It's clearly some form of banishment.
From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Main Entry: 1shark
Pronunciation: \ˈshärk\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English
Date: 15th century
: any of numerous mostly marine cartilaginous fishes of medium to large size that have a fusiform body, lateral branchial clefts, and a tough usually dull gray skin roughened by minute tubercles and are typically active predators sometimes dangerous to humans
— shark·like \ˈshärk-ˌlīk\ adjective
Let's get past this banter and get on with fishing.
Janice aka "Big J"
sorry not buying that one. fish talk is for identifying fish more or less. moderated by bsteves our resident fish expert.
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This is going to make me sound crazier than I already am but BH has a vibe to it. It is tough to explain but I don't usually feel normal and comfortable when I am there. This was way before this incident
Bill, me too. I fished that place at sundown alone last year. got the super spooky feeling while out there...
J
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Yep. I'm constantly looking up, down, and all around for Mr Whitey when I'm out there. It just gives me a weird feeling, and all this shark talk certainly isn't going to make it any less!
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We should tell the MLPA folks that we will trade them BH, Davenport, Ano Nuevo and Piedras Blancas for Cambria, Carmel and Monterey and take away the temptation.
Scott
:smt045 :smt045 :smt045
we wish though...
james
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After three GWS attacks in a short period in Australia, many people started buying and using Shark shields. The website says they have been 100% effective in deterring GWS among others from getting any closer than 6 meters. The Electrical current they send into the water messes with the approaching sharks nervous system. The Kayak model is @ $650, kind of pricey, but..........would be nice to have for the peace of mind it would provide when fishing the extra sharky places.
I would like to hear from more users before I drop the $$ for one though.
sharkshield.com..check em out.
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A bangstick on a kayak sounds like a bad idea. Where would you store it? In a rod holder? On your lap? Based on Dan's experience of getting dumped from the yak, you'll never reach it when you need it.
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A bangstick on a kayak sounds like a bad idea. Where would you store it? In a rod holder? On your lap? Based on Dan's experience of getting dumped from the yak, you'll never reach it when you need it.
I agree. You would be more likely to blow a hole in you or your kayak than use it on a shark.
I have to somewhat equate a shark attack to a mugging. You see it on video all the time. A person is caught totally off guard and they end up flailing miserably, unaware of their surroundings and unable to put anything around them to any use whatsoever. And these people are on land.
I think a flare gun as opposed to a bang stick would be better to carry if you had the presence of mind and the opportunityto use it. A flare gun also has the obvious use as a distress signal.
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A bangstick on a kayak sounds like a bad idea. Where would you store it? In a rod holder? On your lap? Based on Dan's experience of getting dumped from the yak, you'll never reach it when you need it.
I agree. You would be more likely to blow a hole in you or your kayak than use it on a shark.
+1. I think I would choose not to padle with someone who was so concerned about a shark encounter that they carried a gun or bangstick. To do any good it would have to immediately accessible and ready to fire. One rough surf landing and Blam! now your kayak is only good for making cutting boards or your leg is missing. No thanks.
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If you read through the accounts of the various unprovoked shark attacks
http://www.sharkresearchcommittee.com/unprovoked_kayaker.htm (http://www.sharkresearchcommittee.com/unprovoked_kayaker.htm)
one can see that in some cases, there is no warning before the attack, and the initial contact is so violent that the victim would have little chance to evade the shark. But in other attacks, like the one just posted by Ark http://surfermag.com/features/onlineexclusives/gwspaddlerace07/index.html (http://surfermag.com/features/onlineexclusives/gwspaddlerace07/index.html), the potential victim may have sufficient warning to use something like a bang stick.
Would be interesting to get some input from some of these shark experts regarding what they think about using something like this, rather than just going by our own, speculation that is really only informed by common sense notions, but not on any real experience.
Bangsticks have to be manually "cocked" before they can be discharged and this is supposed to prevent accidental discharge when the weapon is jarred. It must be held in close contact to the target because it does not fire a projectile, but relies on the discharge of exploding gases to do it's damage.
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Marmite, I bequeath you the official GWS thread (not that I owned it in any way) if you'll try to collect more stuff there. I read it again the other day, it's an amazingly accurate prediction of what would happen and also I made a strong effort to keep the contents factual.
Maybe you can get it moved out of the basement in to the General forum again, where it belongs.
my comment on the bangstick is that it's not for me. But I would fish with you if you had one as I know how responsible you are. But anybody else? no way! If bangsticks become common, I predict an accident or a sinking! I'll have to take a 7 year bet on that one tho.
John
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If you guys want to avoid the Land Lord....sell your kayak and invest in a rocking chair and knit me a sweater while you're sitting there......I wear an XL :smt002
...or go to Quarry Lake and soak some power pait...I hear catching trout there is a piece of cake :smt002
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No kidding. At the end of the day I'm not going to do anything differently out there.
I'd confidently extend jmaireys wager that the first kayak-fisherman lost in norcal will NOT be due to a shark related incident. There have already been several other incidents where someone came closer to death, I know I was involved in one - hence rule #1 - wear a wetsuit!
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Almost ten years on the water and this the first GWS encounter. I think the dangerous part of kayakfishing is as follows : Surf Launches a landings, getting lost, taking on water and starting to sink, boat traffic, rock fish spines, large hook that you get stabbed by, gaffing your self, halibut in the lap snapping at the family jewels.
-Brian G
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halibut in the lap snapping at the family jewels.
Brian, I'll get you a "cup" for your Bday....but in order for it to work, you need to catch a halibut :smt003
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halibut in the lap snapping at the family jewels.
-Brian G
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Brian G, not all danger is equivalent. getting eaten "hurts more" than a hook in the finger.
but maybe not more than a rockfish spine in the finger, dang that hurts! :smt010.
but if you want to mention deadly dangers: you forgot: car wreck on the way to the fishing grounds or coming home tired.
That guy that went out at bean hollow with no wetsuit probably came closer than Dan to winning the darwin award that day.
and mooch has a point, you only go out twice a year, and sleep in for half the day on those two days,
your odds are lower than somebody that gets more trips in, :smt004.
Mooch and I were both kayak fishing at the time of the attack. He was a little closer than me, :smt002. at least to that one, :smt009.
but as far as deadly dangers, I'd rank them for me:
1. carwreck while commuting to the ocean. I can't drive 55!
2. boat hits me.
3. hypothermia/exposure leading to drowning.
4. launching/landing accident.
5. accident with something sharp on the yak or entanglement (fishing accident).
6. somebody blasts me with their bangstick.
7. shark attack.
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From my past experience, when sh_t happens, it usually catches me totally off guard and I am an extremely observant person.
On numerous instances, when I have had a forewarning, I efficiently was able to arm myself with my knife. Could I have if I was caught completely off guard? I am not sure. Most likely not.
All I know is, for Dan to get knocked out of his kayak, and climbed back in, knowing a shark had a hold of his kayak, required that he was in the physical shape to do it number one, and number two, for Dan not to have panic, is remarkable.
Brian G and Jmairy forgot a few:
1.) The Wind – capsize you – lose your boat – die of hypothermia
2.) Getting struck by lightning -
3.) Getting hung up on your lead rope – you fall over board and drown
4.) Heat Exhaustion – pass out and drown
5.) Heart Attract/Seizure – Fall over board and drown
6.) Bitten by a rattlesnake when launching your kayak – too far away to get to help in time.
7.) Attacked by a coyote – mountain lion – raccoon – bobcat or bear – or skunk!
8.) Lost in Fog
9.) A fire in your campground or trapped on top of a mountain when paddling at an alpine lake.
10.) Going off the side of a mountain while driving to a remote alpine lake.
11.) Being attacked by a sea lion, which happens a lot more than a great white attack.
12.) Being caught in a rock or mud slide…..
13.) The two-legging wild beasts
There are many dangers involved with kayaking. Only you can determine if the risks are worth the price.
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If you guys want to avoid the Land Lord....sell your kayak and invest in a rocking chair and knit me a sweater while you're sitting there......I wear an XL :smt002
...or go to Quarry Lake and soak some power pait...I hear catching trout there is a piece of cake :smt002
Why take a chance on going to Quarry Lake, Something might happen :smt012. IMO - Fear is real but it is just that, a fear. We live in fear of something everyday but that doesn't stop us from enjoying life. I not only fish but I am an archery hunter as well and have had a face to face staredown with a black bear while hunting Elk in Idaho and nearly got ran over by a bear hunting near Trinity Lake. I did have a fear of this happening and it did. But the results were that I was never actually attached. I'm still here and I still hunt. I still have the fear but I don't let that run my life. If you do, life is worth nothing. We voluntarily enter the beasts home in search of our prey. Every once in awhile you might see the beast. The best advise I can give is don't go out alone and get the experience you need to not only help yourself but others in your group as well. Don't be afraid to enjoy what life has to offer.
Ben
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If you guys want to avoid the Land Lord....sell your kayak and invest in a rocking chair and knit me a sweater while you're sitting there......I wear an XL :smt002
You have a color preference? :smt003
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That guy that went out at bean hollow with no wetsuit probably came closer than Dan to winning the darwin award that day.
Hey, I have lots of insulation!
-That Guy
PS, I now have a wetsuit, VHF, and GPS to go with my PFD and BVD's.
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If you guys want to avoid the Land Lord....sell your kayak and invest in a rocking chair and knit me a sweater while you're sitting there......I wear an XL :smt002
...or go to Quarry Lake and soak some power pait...I hear catching trout there is a piece of cake :smt002
:smt046
Z
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halibut in the lap snapping at the family jewels.
Brian, I'll get you a "cup" for your Bday....but in order for it to work, you need to catch a halibut :smt003
I got a armoured/thicker wetsuit!
Ok, so I haven't caught one in a while but I think I've still caught more than you off the kayak. 2002 - 2004 were the years in capitola/santa cruz. :smt007 I just can't do the 4-5 hr anymore in a single day and since my grandpa passed away I am struggle to keep up the farm. Enough high jacking the thread. I am going to catch me a thresher this weekend if weather cooperates. i
My list wasn't meant to be inclusive of everything just the probables. I think you are more likely to be biten by a sea lion than a shark. I have been pulled in the water by a sea lion before.
-Brian G
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Would be interesting to get some input from some of these shark experts regarding what they think about using something like this, rather than just going by our own, speculation that is really only informed by common sense notions, but not on any real experience.
Bangsticks have to be manually "cocked" before they can be discharged and this is supposed to prevent accidental discharge when the weapon is jarred. It must be held in close contact to the target because it does not fire a projectile, but relies on the discharge of exploding gases to do it's damage.
A few last thoughts before I sign off this thread...
1. Doug you are correct about the bang stick. In my diving days, some of my buddies carried them and the safety and firing mechanism makes accidental discharge very difficult if not impossible. I personally wouldn't carry one on a yak because I would never fish in an area where the risk of attack was great enough to justify it, IMO. Although I will continue to fish in the Red Triangle (Joel, I have an old sweater which will fit you) I will avoid areas with frequent shark sightings or attacks such as ano nuevo, piedras blancas and bean hollow. Maybe not a logical decision but one I can live with. Let's face it, none of us would kayak fish Guadalupe Island so somewhere we will have to draw the line whether the safety issue is perceived or real. Also, since my wife was watching the news with me when the story aired, it would cost me too many WAF hours to fish BH. :smt010
2. The sharks at Guadalupe have habituated to people/tuna boats because they are a source of an easy meal. The current BH events such as drive by's and test bites do not suggest habituation, however if fishing pressure continues and sharks begin taking hooked fish, or if there are more test bites then it will only be a matter of time before they figure out a good meal is sitting on top of the yak.
Scott
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...or go to Quarry Lake and soak some power pait...I hear catching trout there is a piece of cake
« Last Edit: Today at 09:27:12 AM by Mooch »
No Guys,
Just go to where Mooch likes to hang out. Stevens Creek and catch all the mercury fish you want.
Just don't forget your "Sakibi Rigs". :smt002
Ken kickfish
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Got some great news today from Mike Mowrey (Nor Cal Ocean Kayak rep).....looks like Ocean Kayak will be giving Dan a new OK Trident (Angler) as a gift :smt007
Good timing too, as Dan had mentioned to me that he was looking into getting a "paddle" kayak and the Trident was his first choice.
Anyway, Thanks to Mike and Ocean Kayaks for stepping up and helping one of our own get back into the water :smt023
Hurrah Ocean Kayaks !!! :groupwave
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Got some great news today from Mike Mowrey (Nor Cal Ocean Kayak rep).....looks like Ocean Kayak will be giving Dan a new OK Trident (Angler) as a gift :smt007 Hurrah Ocean Kayaks !!!
Awesome news!!! :smt023
Janice aka "Big J"
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Got some great news today from Mike Mowrey (Nor Cal Ocean Kayak rep).....looks like Ocean Kayak will be giving Dan a new OK Trident (Angler) as a gift :smt007
Them guys at Ocean Kayak are OK :smt003
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Well I jumped in here awhile back on information exchange. SOB I got hit by a Tiger today!
A small one 7-8 feet maybe. But thick body. Looking at it figured I would fit inside.
So I'm forming a club. All you need is a hit. Should keep most of you fishing to get into this exclusive outfit. :smt003.
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=7422
I never saw him coming. As I posted previously the SOBs seem to know which way your headed.
Semed territoial, but I don't know. See ref report.
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I would like to hear from more users before I drop the $$ for one though.
sharkshield.com..check em out.
I thought you'd never ask...
Bought mine last winter and have been using it all summer - for diving, not kayaking. I feel better having it, I guess. It definitely puts out some juice. I get a tiny jaw quiver on almost every freedive as I go inverted and pass the whip. If it ends up across my arm (5 mil wetsuit) it's more than a little quiver. Yesterday either due to the current or due to it being just a little off from its regular location on my leg, the shark shield whip kept slapping me across the back of my thighs, and was really a huge jolt. After about the 5th time I turned it off and finished the dive without it. Being inside Linda Mar bay, I wasn't too spooked.
One thing I heard is that the device may attract sharks from afar, then repel them when they get close. Makes sense. Pity for your buddy who doesn't have one.
As far as repelling other fish? A guy was using one on the June Peaceboat white sea bass trip; I'm not sure if he shot any fish but I was told he did on a different trip (while using the shield). If it doesn't spook WSB, then it probably won't spook any fish (but hopefully sharks).
Price for mine was 450 but the longer battery life one is now 500 (H&L Tackle).
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Well I jumped in here awhile back on information exchange. SOB I got hit by a Tiger today!
Dan
Glad you are ok. Kind of freaky, 2 guys named Dan both in Hobies all in 1 week. Must be nice yak fishing in Hawaii. Ill bet those big Ulua can really give you a slegh ride. As far as your proposed shark bit club, it reminds me of the old Woody Allen joke "I would never want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member."
scott
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I would like to hear from more users before I drop the $$ for one though.
sharkshield.com..check em out.
I thought you'd never ask...
Bought mine last winter and have been using it all summer - for diving, not kayaking. I feel better having it, I guess. It definitely puts out some juice. I get a tiny jaw quiver on almost every freedive as I go inverted and pass the whip. If it ends up across my arm (5 mil wetsuit) it's more than a little quiver. Yesterday either due to the current or due to it being just a little off from its regular location on my leg, the shark shield whip kept slapping me across the back of my thighs, and was really a huge jolt. After about the 5th time I turned it off and finished the dive without it. Being inside Linda Mar bay, I wasn't too spooked.
One thing I heard is that the device may attract sharks from afar, then repel them when they get close. Makes sense. Pity for your buddy who doesn't have one.
As far as repelling other fish? A guy was using one on the June Peaceboat white sea bass trip; I'm not sure if he shot any fish but I was told he did on a different trip (while using the shield). If it doesn't spook WSB, then it probably won't spook any fish (but hopefully sharks).
Price for mine was 450 but the longer battery life one is now 500 (H&L Tackle).
Thanks for the info, I guess nobody would want to fish with you if your using one and if in fact they attract them closer.
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I would like to hear from more users before I drop the $$ for one though.
sharkshield.com..check em out.
One thing I heard is that the device may attract sharks from afar, then repel them when they get close. Makes sense. Pity for your buddy who doesn't have one.
Thanks for the info, I guess nobody would want to fish with you if your using one and if in fact they attract them closer.
Quite dilemma. May have to fish in a formation with shark shields at the perimeter setting up a force field and unprotected yaks on the inside. :smt003
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Took this a while ago... good news, the snack bar stayed open!
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Okay, I no longer desire a hobie - carpal tunnel or no. Their 'action' is just too sexy...
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sheesh! gone for 2 weeks on vacation and this is what i come back to? :smt005 glad dan is safe!
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In response to all this shark business, I'm looking into stuffing my kayak with pool noodles or some other kind of floatation, getting a manual bilge pump (any suggestions?), and maybe getting myself a shark shield...oh, and wearing a life jacket.
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I wanted to suggest that -- rather than getting his kayak repaired -- Dan might consider auctioning off (via eBay) the battle-scarred kayak to a beachside restaurant or resort...even one outside the continental US (Hawaii, Bahamas, Australia, e.g.). An item like that, together with a photo and story, could go for seriously big $$.
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I wanted to suggest that -- rather than getting his kayak repaired -- Dan might consider auctioning off (via eBay) the battle-scarred kayak to a beachside restaurant or resort...even one outside the continental US (Hawaii, Bahamas, Australia, e.g.). An item like that, together with a photo and story, could go for seriously big $$.
Too late. Hobie stepped up immediately and replaced Dan's kayak. It's probably hanging on the wall at Hobie's headquarters in southern Cal.
As a side note, I'm somewhat disappointed that Ocean Kayak's marketing department decided to turn the shark attack into a publicity stunt by presenting Dan with a new Trident kayak. That's playing dirty.
Oh well... at least Dan got something good out of the deal.... and I must admit I'm a little envious.
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Yeah, what jerks, how could they be such asses and give him a free kayak. :smt044
Other than the one post by mooch I had not heard a thing about this, so it was not much of a publicity stunt if that is what they were after, but I am sure they appriciate you bringing it up again. :smt002
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As a side note, I'm somewhat disappointed that Ocean Kayak's marketing department decided to turn the shark attack into a publicity stunt by presenting Dan with a new Trident kayak. That's playing dirty.
No one from OK has pitched me a story. I haven't seen a press release either.
I think it is a good deed for any company to recognize Dan's tenacity. The man came to fish Elk. Major fortitude, that guy.
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Somehow, I can't seem to generate an excess of envy.....He gets all the stuff he wants.....Dan MORE than earned it.
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Think I'll Head out to the Bean with a Dead Seal Rigged to the Bow of My Hobie...
" Here Fishy Fishy, Daddy needs a New Trident " :smt112
Good for Dan,
OK and Hobie :smt041
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I wanted to suggest that -- rather than getting his kayak repaired -- Dan might consider auctioning off (via eBay) the battle-scarred kayak to a beachside restaurant or resort...even one outside the continental US (Hawaii, Bahamas, Australia, e.g.). An item like that, together with a photo and story, could go for seriously big $$.
Too late. Hobie stepped up immediately and replaced Dan's kayak. It's probably hanging on the wall at Hobie's headquarters in southern Cal.
As a side note, I'm somewhat disappointed that Ocean Kayak's marketing department decided to turn the shark attack into a publicity stunt by presenting Dan with a new Trident kayak. That's playing dirty.
Oh well... at least Dan got something good out of the deal.... and I must admit I'm a little envious.
Being an OK guy, I might be biased, but it looks like a win/win to me. Dan got a new yak so he can keep fishing, and the company (maybe) gets some word-of-mouth publicity. I don't think OK forced a new yak onto Dan, so where does the "dirty" aspect come from?
I think it's great that Hobie essentially did the same thing, if I read your post correctly. One GW attack-two new yaks? Pretty good deal, though I would rather not have had the attack in the 1st place, for sure.
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Doesn't seem like advertising gw attacks on kayaks would do much for sales
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I don't think OK forced a new yak onto Dan,
No - it was never "forced" but offered....I know this for a fact cause I was the messenger. And the fact is, Dan was already looking into getting a "paddle kayak".
The way I see it, Dan was a victim of a rare occurance that was completely out of his control (he just wanted to fish - like everyone of us). His kayak was damaged and Ocean Kayak and Aquan gave him a gift. He accepted graciously. End of story - and I'm happy for him.