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Topic: Another yak full of water story and COBRA WARRANTY COVERAGE  (Read 12038 times)

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Alameda

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Im just a newby here and reading up on all of the horror stories, getting ready for the unexpected, like this one. So sorry to hear about the problem, but thank you for sharing. On a side note, if the manufacturer does not fix it for you, and you need help plastic welding it, let me know, as I can provide lots of tips.

I plastic weld personal motorcycle fairings for repair, and they turn out strong and solid as ever. The key is just to make sure you dont overheat the plastic, making it too brittle, and to do a zipper style weld which will insure that it will hold. That section would definately need more on the insideof the yak, a thicker layer that is, in order to handle the stress and pressure causing it to flex. Believe it or not, a large saudering iron can weld just fine.



Pacifico

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Is that a Marauder?  Mine had a very similar, if not the same, issue a couple of years ago.  Good thing I had purchased it from SBD and he had it exchanged for me.  The replacement seems to be fine so far.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:49:19 PM by Pacifico »
Rub-cifico


Raydog

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Glad to hear you escaped unscathed Dale. I am also considering the pool noodle idea and have been contemplating getting a pump, but I have to ask the question...How do you pump the water out of the hull after it has filled and become unstable? Is it a matter of exiting the kayak and pumping alongside without your additional weight or is it as simple as just popping the hatch and going at it. I just figured by the time the kayak filled with water, your chances of pumping out the water while in the ocean fighting any swells or any body of water was a losing battle depending on the crack/hole. I have yet to enter the ocean and am looking forward to fishing in big blue this year and I am really trying to focus on the worst case scenarios so that I remain ready for anything.

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piski

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It's possible to open a hatch & pump out water while remaining on the yak - just becomes much harder the more conditions you have to deal with. Swells, IMO, are not the problem - wind & chop on the other hand...  :smt012

On another note, I tested plumber's putty today and it would work as a temporary on-the-water patch to plug a leak to allow you to paddle back in. There are other compounds that can be used to plug leaks on-the-water, but plumber's putty is a fairy cheap alternative. Just don't try to use it as a permanent patch...Duh!
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Dale L

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Is that a Marauder?  Mine had a very similar, if not the same, issue a couple of years ago.  Good thing I had purchased it from SBD and he had it exchanged for me.  The replacement seems to be fine so far.

It is a Marauder and I did get it from Sean a little less than 2 years ago.  Since he's not selling yaks anymore I just contacted Cobra directly, I emailed them a "report" of what happened including the pics, if I don't hear back in a few days I'll give them a call.

 


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I'm glad you weren't on big water.  I've got the pump and noodles, but now I'll take a good look at the bottom of my yak more often, and practice pumping while aboard, first with no water inside, just to see if under the best conditions I can do it, then after filling it partly full of water (near shore!). 
 There was a thread or two about noodles a year or so ago, and some people thought they wouldn't help you be able to sit in the yak and paddle it full of water, and I never tested that, so I accepted that, but thought at least I'd have something floating - the yak full of noodles and water-to hold on to until and if help arrived.


libertyforall

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Alameda:  I plastic weld personal motorcycle fairings for repair, and they turn out strong and solid as ever.

Is the procedure the same for the different kinds of plastic?

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Pacifico:  it may have been that with all of the bouncing around back there the weight of the kayak caused those cracks.
  Interesting.  Did you get swamped or did you discover the problem on land?


FishFarmer

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Quote
Mine had a very similar, if not the same, issue a couple of years ago.

I can't help but wonder if there is a defect in their process... like a thin spot. Strong enough to hold up for a few years, but not as strong as it should be?
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Marmite

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That is the set of scuppers where I put my scupper hole cart.  On the other hand when I got the boat that part of the hull stuck out a bit from the rest of the bottom, if you look closely at the pics you can see that the ridges next to the cracks are scuffed down like they've been ground off, that's because they stuck up (down) and took most of the ride anytime I slide the boat across anything. Those scuppers are directly below my butt so those scuppers probably pushed down some at that spot in the hull while the whole hull was uniformly supported up by the water

I would think that your use of a scupper hole cart is the most likely culprit.  Your pictures show some wear on the high margin of the groove, but the actual crack is not in that area, it's in the trough of the groove.  The interior shot shows that the material is quite thinned out around the "mouth" to the scupper hole, so possibly it's thinned around the edge of the groove where the crack occurred.

The last picture also shows a ding in the actual rim around the scupper hole opening.  That's on the inner edge, right where you might expect the crossbar of the scupper hole cart to exert maximum pressure on the yak body. You can imagine that if you are hauling your yak over rocky terrain (did you do Elk), it's like having a piston ramming against the scupper hole with a force probably well over half the weight of your kayak focused right on that inch square section.  If it was a P15, where there is no channel in the hull, the forces would likely be dissipated over a wider area and just cause the hull to flex back and forth.  And when you are in the water, the water probably helps to evenly distribute the force of your weight through the hull. But when hauling this yak with a scupper-hole cart, the hull flex is constrained by the rigid channel.  That means that all the force applied to the inboard section of the hull creates a pounding, almost a shearing force right at the area where the crack occured.  Good reason to go Wheeleze.

Quote
Has anyone tried G-Flex Epoxy ??

One of the information papers indicated:
Quote
HDPE plastic 655 Alcohol wipe, flame treat 1885

That suggest that this product may be like the one TAP plastic carries for use on high density polypropylene plastics.  Last year they had a big sign saying they now offered polypropylene fabricating so I inquired about the process.  The local sales guy didn't have that much hands-on experience but he said they used one of their epoxy products to do the bonding.  But he said it's not a matter of just applying an epoxy to the surfaces.  You have to prep it by first heat treating the surface until it sweats (if you put a heat gun on some HDPE you'll see it get to a point of glistening, like it's got water on the surface before it melts), and then apply the epoxy when the HDPE is in that state.  He made it sound like a tedious process so I never tested the product out.  Given the contours of this crack, I suspect you might melt the yak before you could evenly sweat the area around the defect.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 10:49:03 AM by Marmite »


Pacifico

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  Interesting.  Did you get swamped or did you discover the problem on land?

I opened the hatch and noticed a bit of water but didn't pay too much attention because it used to take on some water through the hatches.  After a while I opened it again and there was about 1" or so of water in the hull...so I paddled closer to the launch and fished for a bit after taking out some of the water using a sponge.  After some time I checked again and there was more water so I called it a day.
Rub-cifico


PAL

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I don't know why anyone would use a plug-in cart, as the risk of cracking a scupper is real, especially when used with a fully loaded fishing kayak. Manufacturers should take these off the market; this safety issue will come due someday, if it hasn't already.   
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SBD

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That is EXACTLY where Angels boat, and EKs boats cracked.  They were bothed replaced under warranty.


KZ

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Yep... same exact failure as my Marauder.  It was replaced under warranty (and very quickly I might add).  There's a lot of different stresses on the rib in that particular area and they told me that they modified the mold a bit to fix that problem.

IMO this isn't very likely to be caused by a plug-in cart or anything else in particular except for a weakness in the design of the hull in that particular spot.  Plug in carts may not be ideal but even a roleez causes a ton of stress to the hull if it isn't positioned well.  I used a plug-in cart for 5 years on my old Malibu Two in heavy usage and it is still floating today. 

Here are the pics of how the failure looked on my boat.

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outback

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We've seen a lot of people unexpectedly take on water with sit-on-top kayaks due to many issues.  All sorts of things can bring water into your boat - Boats can leak through rivet holes, hatches, drain plugs etc.  In surf or from a capsize, water will get into your boat one way or the other.  Leaking scuppers, damaged  keels (from dragging), or cracks are other ways water will find it's way.  Be sure to inspect your boat before heading out.

Sit-on-top kayaks seem unsinkable, but it can happen.  Floatation bags are the standard way to displace water in a kayak.  Pool noodles seem like a mess and a great way to have funk stick and grow in the spaghetti.  With the floatation bags just be sure that they are in an area where sharp objects won't puncture them.  Also keep in mind that they can expand and contract with temperature.  Now floatation bags will only help to prevent the boat from sinking, but you still need a way to get the water out.  

To do this you will need a bilge pump.  Here at Outback Adventures we see our customers often dismiss the importance of a bilge pump and ironically we also hear gnarly stories of where a pump could bailed folks out of a bad situation (no pun intended).  

I'd reccommend that everyone practice how to deal with water in their boats and how to perform rescues/recoveries.  We do offer a class at Outback Adventures that covers the skills needed for dealing with flooded kayaks and how to perform rescues and recoveries in sit-on-top kayaks.  It's called Skills and Safety.  Practice, practice, practice.  
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Dale L

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I didn’t want to get in a pissin match with people who thought the failure was from the scupper hole cart.  I believe in my case the cart may have contributed to the problem but for the most part it was a problem with the hull.  

Erik’s pictures do a better job than mine of showing how the curvature of the hull in that area makes those ridges stick out and take a beating, also note that on one side the edge of the hole is under the ridge while the other side is about a ¼” from the ridge.  I bet his boat and mine came out of the same mold.

The day after it happened,  I sent an email to Cobra with my story including my use of a scupper hole cart, that email and a one minute conversation resulted in them saying that it was a warranty issue (Cobra's Lifetime Warranty) and they would be replacing the boat.  

They did mention that there was a problem in that area of the hull and that they had remedied it.

Oh, yeah, I now have a bilge pump, but no yak at the moment.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 03:10:59 PM by Dale L »