NorCal Kayak Anglers

General => CA Regulations => Topic started by: Hojoman on February 15, 2018, 07:25:43 PM

Title: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Hojoman on February 15, 2018, 07:25:43 PM
February 15, 2018

Question: I often fish off the dock where my boat is in a slip. My fishing license is in a folder on my boat with all the other required legal documents. I also have a photo of my license in my cell phone that clearly shows the license number on a valid license. If I am contacted by a CDFW officer, will I receive a citation for not having the piece of paper in my possession? He could certainly check the number via his radio and see that it’s valid, or walk over to my boat and view the license. (Dave M.)

Answer: As explained above, FGC, section 7145 (a) specifies that you must have your license with you while fishing. There are a few exceptions – you don’t need a license if you’re fishing from a public pier (FGC, section 7153), and if you’re diving, it’s fine to keep your license in the boat or within 500 yards of the shore, as applicable (FGC, section 7145(a)).

Except for the diving exemption, when required, you must have your valid fishing license in your immediate possession when fishing, not just a photograph of the license. It’s an urban legend that “wardens can look it up on the radio.”
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: NowhereMan on February 15, 2018, 09:18:37 PM
Idiocy.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: PISCEAN on February 16, 2018, 11:28:23 AM
I can't really defend it, but I've come around to the retention of this policy. It's one thing that hasn't changed, ever.

I know, I know, advancements in tech comms, etc, but even I, who only fished a double handful of days last season, still went to a couple places where there is absolutely no cell reception. So I get the old school approach.
At least they do make some allowances for diving.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: NowhereMan on February 16, 2018, 02:47:47 PM
As if on cue, I had a few minutes today and was in Santa Cruz and had my fishing pole. So, I stopped by to make a few casts, and just as I was walking across the beach realized that I'd forgotten my fishing license. Very annoying...
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: sandshred on February 16, 2018, 03:44:51 PM
 I have personally been stopped by a warden while on my kayak in the far back of Ice House.
 He was in a small aluminum boat, blue jeans and a t shirt.
 I didn't have my license on me.
 He was able to use his cell phone to look up my info.
 He sent me on my way.
 
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: NowhereMan on February 17, 2018, 08:07:23 AM
I have personally been stopped by a warden while on my kayak in the far back of Ice House.
 He was in a small aluminum boat, blue jeans and a t shirt.
 I didn't have my license on me.
 He was able to use his cell phone to look up my info.
 He sent me on my way.

That shows that they have the capability, which only makes it more ridiculous, IMHO. Of course, the warden could also have given you a ticket, or at least forced you to go back and get your license to continue fishing.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 17, 2018, 09:02:34 AM
I have personally been stopped by a warden while on my kayak in the far back of Ice House.
 He was in a small aluminum boat, blue jeans and a t shirt.
 I didn't have my license on me.
 He was able to use his cell phone to look up my info.
 He sent me on my way.

That shows that they have the capability, which only makes it more ridiculous, IMHO. Of course, the warden could also have given you a ticket, or at least forced you to go back and get your license to continue fishing.

Yes, We should increase the workload of wardens and dispatch so that you dont have to remember your license.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: crash on February 17, 2018, 09:24:43 AM
I have personally been stopped by a warden while on my kayak in the far back of Ice House.
 He was in a small aluminum boat, blue jeans and a t shirt.
 I didn't have my license on me.
 He was able to use his cell phone to look up my info.
 He sent me on my way.

That shows that they have the capability, which only makes it more ridiculous, IMHO. Of course, the warden could also have given you a ticket, or at least forced you to go back and get your license to continue fishing.

Yes, We should increase the workload of wardens and dispatch so that you dont have to remember your license.

It would be trivial to have all license information from every license holder in the entire state stored on a smart phone or tablet that would be searchable and carried on the warden in the field, and would not require cell service or wifi.  You wouldn't need to radio it in, you could look it up yourself.  Update it every time you are back in cell range and the only thing you miss are the newly issued licenses from the last few hours/day, which are almost certainly going to be in the possession of the new license purchaser in the event of a contact.

It's 2018 and there is no excuse for this antiquated bs.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 17, 2018, 09:37:27 AM
I have personally been stopped by a warden while on my kayak in the far back of Ice House.
 He was in a small aluminum boat, blue jeans and a t shirt.
 I didn't have my license on me.
 He was able to use his cell phone to look up my info.
 He sent me on my way.

That shows that they have the capability, which only makes it more ridiculous, IMHO. Of course, the warden could also have given you a ticket, or at least forced you to go back and get your license to continue fishing.

Yes, We should increase the workload of wardens and dispatch so that you dont have to remember your license.

It would be trivial to have all license information from every license holder in the entire state stored on a smart phone or tablet that would be searchable and carried on the warden in the field, and would not require cell service or wifi.  You wouldn't need to radio it in, you could look it up yourself.  Update it every time you are back in cell range and the only thing you miss are the newly issued licenses from the last few hours/day, which are almost certainly going to be in the possession of the new license purchaser in the event of a contact.

It's 2018 and there is no excuse for this antiquated bs.

Yes, that might work.

My comment was in response to the “radio it in” proposed solution.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: E Kayaker on February 17, 2018, 10:41:41 AM
That would probably cost a lot of money and time. Wouldn’t it be easier to allow someone that forgets their license to simply show proof and have the citation voided for a nominal fee.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Ski Pro 3 -- Jerry on February 17, 2018, 10:49:05 AM
I think sometimes wardens forget who they are working for.  If they can help a fisherman who has taken responsibility to get a license but that forgot it back on shore from getting a ticket issued, then they should, as long as no other laws were violated.  Under those circumstances, should not even be a violation, but rather an infraction that would be dismissed once proof of license is verified by an LEO and the ticket signed off.  This would put the burden on the fisherman to regain possession of his license, find an LEO and have them verify the information and sign off the ticket.  The lesson is learned in the exercise the fisherman has to perform and doesn't burden the warden.

A ticket with a fine or other penalty for leaving a license with no other mitigating circumstances is just another way to steal. 
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: NowhereMan on February 17, 2018, 09:19:24 PM
It's 2018 and there is no excuse for this antiquated bs.

This!
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: SlackedTide on February 18, 2018, 01:40:23 AM
I say link fishing and hunting liscense with the dmv. Rather have a photo ID instead of the long piece of paper crap.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: MontanaN8V on February 18, 2018, 08:07:21 AM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: crash on February 18, 2018, 08:34:19 AM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

Nice.  That's nice.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: NowhereMan on February 18, 2018, 08:45:22 AM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

Yes, I realize it is the "LAW" and that's why I don't fish if I forget my license. The question is whether this law makes sense in 2018, and I say no. It seems to me that a minimal use of technology---nothing fancy or cutting edge required---would make it easier for everyone, including the warden, and more secure to boot.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: sandshred on February 18, 2018, 08:52:06 AM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

Yes, I realize it is the "LAW" and that's why I don't fish if I forget my license. The question is whether this law makes sense in 2018, and I say no. It seems to me that a minimal use of technology---nothing fancy or cutting edge required---would make it easier for everyone, including the warden, and more secure to boot.
Lol,
I must be lazy.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: polepole on February 18, 2018, 08:52:26 AM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

Yes, I realize it is the "LAW" and that's why I don't fish if I forget my license. The question is whether this law makes sense in 2018, and I say no. It seems to me that a minimal use of technology---nothing fancy or cutting edge required---would make it easier for everyone, including the warden, and more secure to boot.

With modern technology, LE doesn't even need to interact with you.  They could just take a picture of your face, run it through facial recognition, and immediately know if you have a license or not.  Big brother is watching ... be careful what you wish for.

-Allen
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 18, 2018, 09:04:13 AM
Polepole obviously hasn’t worked with the CDFW IT department.  They make our AOTY site seem highly reliable by comparison. :smt044  :smt002
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: crash on February 18, 2018, 09:19:26 AM
Polepole obviously hasn’t worked with the CDFW IT department.  They make our AOTY site seem highly reliable by comparison. :smt044  :smt002

They still use carrier pigeons to send messages. Modernizing would be lazy.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: polepole on February 18, 2018, 09:19:57 AM
Polepole obviously hasn’t worked with the CDFW IT department.  They make our AOTY site seem highly reliable by comparison. :smt044  :smt002

I'd be surprised if CDFW even has an IT department. :smt044

-Allen
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 18, 2018, 10:30:47 AM
Polepole obviously hasn’t worked with the CDFW IT department.  They make our AOTY site seem highly reliable by comparison. :smt044  :smt002

They still use carrier pigeons to send messages. Modernizing would be lazy.

 :smt044

They’re trying. I think the ALDS system is an improvement.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 18, 2018, 10:31:09 AM
1. Buy license.
2. Stick it in your wallet.
3. Go fishing.

This
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: E Kayaker on February 18, 2018, 10:37:35 AM
1. Buy license.
2. Stick it in your wallet.
3. Go fishing.
Maybe if you only get the basic license. I need a book bag to carry mine around! :smt044
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: I Zod Out on February 18, 2018, 11:22:42 AM
...my Co2 on this thread

While fishing off Leffingwell Landing a summer or so ago(?), a fishing buddy and I were visited by the DF&G mid-day, while off shore on our kayaks.
"Garabaldi" and I had our limits of rockies and were angling for a ling or a cabby when the officers pulled up between us. I had realized earlier that I had left my license dangling from my rear view mirror inside my truck, so when I was asked to present, I made my confession. "Sorry, I left my license in the truck". The officer checked that we were compliant within limits, had our approved landing nets visible, and looked as "if" we were properly attired with PFD's etc. which we were. The officer asked for my name, birthdate, and home address, then asked "where(?)" did I purchase my California fishing license. After writing all this down, he said he would check when he returned to base, and "if" I checked out I would not hear from him or be cited. I asked "IF" I could see is badge number (and this officer complied) so, I had some important details on my side. 

Never heard from CF&D.

Take this with a grain of salt "if" you wish, but I think it's up to the call of the individual officer, and I musta bumped into a fair one, 'nuff said.

I Zod Out
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: CptSloppywood on February 18, 2018, 12:56:46 PM
1. Buy license.
2. Stick it in your wallet.
3. Go fishing.

This
Or, buy a separate wallet just for your licences and throw it in whatever tackle box or waders or whatever you might be using that day. I have never forgotten it.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: MontanaN8V on February 18, 2018, 03:46:53 PM
What does CHP do when you do not have license, registration, or insurance? You get a ticket even if you have all the above, but not in the vehicle.
The exact same thing here. It is the law. Take your license or take a ticket if you get caught. You are an adult, mommy not putting your license in your lunch for you to go fishing is not an excuse. Take responsibility for yourselves for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: crash on February 18, 2018, 03:58:36 PM
What does CHP do when you do not have license, registration, or insurance? You get a ticket even if you have all the above, but not in the vehicle.
The exact same thing here. It is the law. Take your license or take a ticket if you get caught. You are an adult, mommy not putting your license in your lunch for you to go fishing is not an excuse. Take responsibility for yourselves for crying out loud.

You keep on proving Jerry's point for him.  Unintentionally. 

I think that's kinda awesome.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Tinker on February 18, 2018, 04:03:04 PM
I've never had a California fishing license, so I don't know what information you need to present to get a license, but up here in Oregon we have to give ODFW our SSN.  I think I prefer that kind of personal information be securely locked up and not accessible to anyone through the WWW.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 19, 2018, 07:40:18 PM
...my Co2 on this thread

While fishing off Leffingwell Landing a summer or so ago(?), a fishing buddy and I were visited by the DF&G mid-day, while off shore on our kayaks.
"Garabaldi" and I had our limits of rockies and were angling for a ling or a cabby when the officers pulled up between us. I had realized earlier that I had left my license dangling from my rear view mirror inside my truck, so when I was asked to present, I made my confession. "Sorry, I left my license in the truck". The officer checked that we were compliant within limits, had our approved landing nets visible, and looked as "if" we were properly attired with PFD's etc. which we were. The officer asked for my name, birthdate, and home address, then asked "where(?)" did I purchase my California fishing license. After writing all this down, he said he would check when he returned to base, and "if" I checked out I would not hear from him or be cited. I asked "IF" I could see is badge number (and this officer complied) so, I had some important details on my side. 

Never heard from CF&D.

Take this with a grain of salt "if" you wish, but I think it's up to the call of the individual officer, and I musta bumped into a fair one, 'nuff said.

I Zod Out

I went out with Insearchoffish and mistakenly grabbed my report card drybox instead of my license drybox when I left home. I was stopped by wardens right before I launched, and happily handed them my box of report cards. I was quite embarrassed when they couldn't find the license. They recommended that I buy a replacement license before I hit the water. An hour later I was on the water with my duplicate license. I was not cited, and now my report cards, license, zipties and a sharpie all go in one box. 
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: mireland62887 on February 19, 2018, 08:30:12 PM
I think it's easier for this to be a requirement and put the burden on the fisherman of proving he has a license instead of DFG having to research it. Many places have spotty cellular service, spotty data service, and the state radios aren't all that fancy. While I don't have any first hand knowledge, I know enough about radios to assume they have some serious dead zones.

An updated data base of licensees isn't a bad idea....but paying a developer to make it secure enough for state law enforcement is another hurdle, and then you'd need to get them to sign off on it and incorporate it.

I think it's easier for them to make it the same as a driver's license requirement. Must have it in possession while driving. Pretty simple actually.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Dale L on February 20, 2018, 01:58:04 PM
So what's next, do you want this digital system some of you envision to also know if you bought a report card and how many tags you've used?

Every time this subject comes up I see people advocating for the govt to spend more money to come up with a foolproof system so they don't have to remember to carry their license.

Nothing is free and you guys familiar with creating a system that will work 100% of the time know how expensive it can be. And even with such a system you're gonna have to carry something to identify yourself with.

BTW my license weighs 1.6 grams and takes up less space than my drivers license. Same as yours.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: SlackedTide on February 20, 2018, 02:18:45 PM
It’s 2018 and we’re in a digital age... :smt005 :smt005 :smt005 it’s not like the state doesn’t already provide photo IDs not that Real ID’s are gonna be required anytime soon. But I’m still carrying a fading piece of paper the length of who knows...  if we can be ok by a PO for showing a digital proof insurance by the state why can’t we have other means . Irony  :smt005
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Sin Coast on February 20, 2018, 03:23:07 PM
Fortunately, most wardens (err, wildlife officers) are reasonable. And fortunately, they are allowed some lattitude to use their own discretion...depending on the circumstance.
I remember one time a friend forgot his license at home. And the warden decided to not wite a citation, after our friend's wife texted a photo of his license--to show the warden. He was simply told to not forget it again or else it could result in a citation, depending on the circumstances.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: ex-kayaker on February 20, 2018, 07:37:25 PM
Every time this subject comes up I see people advocating for the govt to spend more money to come up with a foolproof system so they don't have to remember to carry their license.

lol, this could be good....

DFG implements new digital license database:


WTF......fishing license just went up ten bucks again this year.  Insert rant about shitty enforcement and lack of resources not justifying cost of license

WTF.....dfg held me up for 20 minutes cause my license wouldn't scan/no connection at the spot/he kept spelling my name wrong/etc.

WTF....dfg got pissed at me for leaving a spot I wasn't getting any bites at while he was taking 20 minutes to check some other A-holes license.

WTF....dfg totally missed a poacher get away from right in front of him while he was checking some a-hole and another d-bag was distracting him.


Police/chp aren't usually contacting a whole lot of people throughout the day and they generally don't give two shits about how long your sitting there waiting for them.  I'd prefer to take the two minutes to pull out my license and be on my way. 

I do kinda like the idea of treating it like a fix-it ticket, maybe even a one-time get off the hook by purchasing the license after getting busted deal.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: MontanaN8V on February 21, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Nothing to fight. You either have your license in your immediate possession while engaging in hunting ans fishing, or you don't.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: mako1 on February 21, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
I was on the ocean off of Russian Gulch and was checked. Damn, forgot it in the truck on shore. Warden let me go in and show it to a park ranger who then radio'd the warden that all was well. I was even allowed to keep the fish in my possession. I was not an a-hole to the guy. That helps.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: polepole on February 21, 2018, 03:26:08 PM
Nothing to fight. You either have your license in your immediate possession while engaging in hunting ans fishing, or you don't.

The problem with stating the obvious over and over again is that people stop listening to you.

Come on man.  It's a conspiracy.  Get on board!

-Allen
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: MontanaN8V on February 24, 2018, 12:34:23 AM
Bet they didn't forget tide pods to snack on...
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Tote on February 24, 2018, 06:11:13 AM
I don't think the obvious has yet been stated.
Yes we are 'living in a digital world' (Madonna should write a new song).
Yes, in a lot of ways animals have it better than we do; euthanasia and being chipped.
Imagine being chipped.
You pay your fees and the chip is scanned with your updated purchases each year.
On 12-31 at 11:59PM the info expires.
DFW wouldn't even have to ask you for your license. They could just shoot ya with their laser gun (chip reader) and know if you were compliant or not.
And discuss....... :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

 :happy1:
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Archie Marx on February 26, 2018, 07:25:17 AM
I don't think the obvious has yet been stated.
Yes we are 'living in a digital world' (Madonna should write a new song).
Yes, in a lot of ways animals have it better than we do; euthanasia and being chipped.
Imagine being chipped.
You pay your fees and the chip is scanned with your updated purchases each year.
On 12-31 at 11:59PM the info expires.
DFW wouldn't even have to ask you for your license. They could just shoot ya with their laser gun (chip reader) and know if you were compliant or not.
And discuss....... :smt044 :smt044 :smt044

 :happy1:

Hear Hear!  :smt002

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk)
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Der_Huntsman on February 26, 2018, 01:39:44 PM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

This

Also, take your ticket like a big boy and go to court. I did this once because I forgot my hunting license. Went to court, showed my license and the receipt and they said thanks and have a nice day. My punishment for forgetting to follow the law was an hour in a court room and a $100 court processing fee. Be grown ups :)
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: E Kayaker on February 26, 2018, 02:17:39 PM
Be a big boy and carry your license. That is the problem today, we are lazy. Let technology do it.
I dont regulate Title 14, but ANY time our regs call for documentation to be produced on request and you aint got it, I will give you some so you dont feel left out until you get it taken care of. Yes I can research licenses for blasters with a phone or radio call. What does the LAW say? Really no excuse other than you are lazy.

This

Also, take your ticket like a big boy and go to court. I did this once because I forgot my hunting license. Went to court, showed my license and the receipt and they said thanks and have a nice day. My punishment for forgetting to follow the law was an hour in a court room and a $100 court processing fee. Be grown ups :)
I tend to agree. As I said earlier, nominal fee and show proof. I'm not sure where the lazy part fits in though. I think mostly its a matter of forgetting or putting it someplace different for a special trip. Most people don't want to worry about a big fine for a forgetful error.
Title: Re: Can’t an Officer “Radio in” My License Info?
Post by: Grim Reefer on February 26, 2018, 05:44:50 PM
Forgive me if this has already been addressed but I did not read all four pages of this. From a law enforcement perspective, let’s compare this to driving without a license. There are actually two violations related to this. The first is vc 12500 which is driving without a license issued to you (a misdemeanor). The second violation is vC 12951 which is driving without a license in your possession (an infraction) I am not familiar with fg sections but it could be the same type of deal.  If you had a license but didn’t have it with you were you cited for not having a license or not having it in your possession. Again, I am not familiar with fg codes so I don’t know if this is the case. but  Just because they can verify that you have a license issued to you doesn’t mean that you aren’t still committing a violation if your are not in possession of it while fishing.