Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 12:26:40 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent Topics

[Today at 11:50:57 AM]

[Today at 11:49:33 AM]

[Today at 11:22:14 AM]

[Today at 11:08:39 AM]

[March 27, 2024, 07:25:42 PM]

[March 27, 2024, 07:05:39 PM]

[March 27, 2024, 04:18:57 PM]

[March 27, 2024, 12:35:34 PM]

[March 27, 2024, 11:18:23 AM]

[March 26, 2024, 07:45:07 PM]

[March 26, 2024, 06:19:03 PM]

[March 26, 2024, 05:47:06 PM]

Support NCKA

Support the site by making a donation.

Topic: 2015 AOTY/DOTY suggestions  (Read 16189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BigJim

  • A-Hull
  • Manatee
  • *****
  • No white flags.
  • View Profile
  • Location: Watsonville
  • Date Registered: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 15216
Please post up ideas you have here, and also if you are willing to volunteer to help out!

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
*DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~2019-5th~2020-2nd*


BigJim

  • A-Hull
  • Manatee
  • *****
  • No white flags.
  • View Profile
  • Location: Watsonville
  • Date Registered: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 15216
Here are some that I have seen either via PM or on threads...not saying I agree or disagree with any of these, just posting up ideas I have heard:

1. Make Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout seperate species (AOTY)
2. Adjust wording of rules to try and get rid of "lip pulling" or stretching of fish when taking pictures (AOTY and DOTY)
3. Have prize kayak(s) go to AOTY and DOTY winners, not be raffled off (AOTY and DOTY)
4. Have DOTY use "best of 10" format like AOTY (DOTY)
5. Create Junior AOTY (AOTY...DOTY too??)
6. Eliminate Sail division? No entries last year...only raydon has posted entries in it this year...(AOTY)


That should get some ideas flowing...

 :smt002

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
*DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~2019-5th~2020-2nd*


Clayman

  • AOTY Committee
  • *
  • View Profile
  • Location: Newport, OR (formerly Lake Almanor, CA)
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 3321
Thanks for posting this Jim.  I'll comment on a couple of the topics you posted.

1. Make Brown Trout and Rainbow Trout seperate species (AOTY)
I suggested this one.  Why?  Because we have separate divisions for the three primary black bass species in CA, yet we lump trout (minus mackinaw) into one group.  Smallmouth and spotted bass are so similar that they can actually hybridize with one another.  Rainbows and browns cannot hybridize; in fact, they didn't even evolve on the same continent.  Rainbows are spring spawners that tend to utilize the upper layers of the water column in a lake.  Meanwhile, browns are fall spawners that are often found closer to lake bottoms and they can often behave much like a bass by hugging tight to structure.  Browns are also more piscivorous than rainbows, and are often more difficult to catch than rainbows.  Brown trout are also more active than rainbows under extremely cold temperatures.  The disparities between the two species are much greater than those between smallmouth and spotted bass.  I've spent a lot of time targeting both so I've seen these disparities first-hand.

I found a thread from 2012 that mentions adding species to AOTY, including brown trout (http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=43260.15).  Seems the resistance against adding brown trout to the list includes 1) if you separate out browns, then we'd have to have categories for every individual trout species, 2) brown trout are too far away/isolated for AOTY participants to pursue, and 3) how would the point value be different for brown trout compared to other trout.  My opinion on #1: Have a brown trout and an "other trout" category (Bird suggested this in the 2012 thread), unless there was significant interest in adding a brook trout category (I wouldn't suggest adding cutts or goldens, as they're only available to kayakers in a few select locations in CA).  #2: Browns can be found closer than many people think.  Meanwhile, something like white seabass are practically on the other side of the world for someone in my location (northeastern CA).  Mackinaw are found in fewer locations in CA than brown trout, yet they're also on the AOTY list. #3: Bump down the point value for brown trout to 7 or 7.5 points, as they tend to grow larger and faster than rainbows.


3. Have prize kayak(s) go to AOTY and DOTY winners, not be raffled off (AOTY and DOTY)
As much as I like the idea of everyone having a shot at winning something, maybe a brand-spankin-new kayak is a little too much.  Especially if there isn't something of relatively equal value to be won by the winner of AOTY.  The raffle kayak convinced me to target more species on the AOTY list than what I would've targeted under the traditional format, and that was really cool and fun to do.  But maybe it should be more of its own thing, like a "side competition" of AOTY.  That way, folks who don't think they'll be able to put in the time and effort to catch the biggest fish in each category will still have some incentive to get out there and catch a new species so they can get another raffle ticket.  I've found that the most important thing in AOTY is time management.  Timing is everything with fishing, and sometimes when the timing is "on" for the fishing, other things like work and family come into play to where you can't "hit it when the bite is on." Some folks have the flexibility in their lives and work schedules to take advantage of the precise times when the big fish are going to bite, and that's great.  But a lot of us don't have that flexibility and have to make do with the time we do have, even if that time occurs when those big fish are going to be "off the bite".  At least the raffle part of this year's AOTY has promoted increased participation in it (or so it seems).  Otherwise it turns into just a handful of people submitting catches.

Therefore, I recommend retaining the "raffle" aspect of AOTY in 2015, but also bringing back the "grand prize" kayak for the top placer in AOTY.  If we can only get one kayak for the competition, it should go to the top placer in AOTY while we have a lesser prize for the "raffle" winner.  Or, in a perfect world, there'd be two kayaks and we could have one for the top placer and one for the raffle.  This way we're both attracting new participants to AOTY who want to maximize their chances at winning a kayak by chasing more than ten species, and we're rewarding the individual who works his/her ass off to actually win AOTY.
aMayesing Bros.


Sin Coast

  • AOTY committee
  • Global Moderator
  • Pat Kuhl
  • View Profile Turf Image
  • Location: Mbay
  • Date Registered: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 14642
Here's my suggestion for 2015.
1st Place DOTY should win a new JK or OK kayak.
1st Place AOTY should win a new Hobie kayak.
Continue doing the raffle ticket per species and award another kayak via raffle (OK, JK, WS, Hobie, RTM, Malibu, Stealth, whatever).
Photobucket Sucks!

 Team A-Hulls

~old enough to know better, young enough to not care~


BigJim

  • A-Hull
  • Manatee
  • *****
  • No white flags.
  • View Profile
  • Location: Watsonville
  • Date Registered: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 15216
Chris and PK, thank you for the awesome elaboration of your ideas... :smt008

I know nothing about trout so will defer to other more in the know people on that one, but your reasoning makes sense to me.  :smt008

For the prize yaks for 2015...these are my thoughts off the top of my head...right now....  :smt005

I have to submit my request to JK for prize donations by 1/31 of each year...this year I did that to get a yak for PIF...

http://jacksonkayak.com/about-jackson-kayak/jk-support/event-or-fundraising-sponsor-application/

Next year, I think I will try and request one for DOTY.... :smt003

Hobie seems to be the traditional/perpetual donor for AOTY...so I bet we can count on them to come through again for AOTY 2015...

I think the "raffle for species" yak idea is an awesome and hopefully a prostaffer or industry person from another yak company can help out with getting a yak for that!

Just my ramblings...

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
*DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~2019-5th~2020-2nd*


matanaska

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • View Profile Lost Coast Kayak Fishing Adventures
  • Location: Eureka, Ca
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 2598
1.  Add flounder back on the species list! Like Clayman said, WSB are on the other side of the world and they don't always come in thick enough for people to have a good chance of catching one.  Also add a shark species
2.  I second the grand prize for the winner not a raffle.

https://www.facebook.com/lostcoastkayakfishing



1st Place 2015 Trinidad Rockfish Wars V
1st Place 2014 CCKA AOTY
1st Place 2011 Trinidad Rockfish Wars I
2nd place 2012 Trinidad Rockfish Wars II
3rd Place Albion Open 2013
4th Place AOTY 2013
7th Place 2012 GS6
2013 Hobie Worlds USA Team member

2015 Hobie Outback
2016 Hobie Outback Limited Edition #420 of 500


Clayman

  • AOTY Committee
  • *
  • View Profile
  • Location: Newport, OR (formerly Lake Almanor, CA)
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 3321
1.  Add flounder back on the species list! Like Clayman said, WSB are on the other side of the world and they don't always come in thick enough for people to have a good chance of catching one.  Also add a shark species
A non-halibut flatfish category would be pretty cool.  And they're all along the CA coast, so it's not like accessibility would be an issue.

The shark category would be cool too.  At first I wasn't too fond of it since to measure any decent-sized shark would mean you'd have to kill it, and some people are averse to killing sharks.  But then I remembered sturgeon are on the AOTY list :smt005.
aMayesing Bros.


Sin Coast

  • AOTY committee
  • Global Moderator
  • Pat Kuhl
  • View Profile Turf Image
  • Location: Mbay
  • Date Registered: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 14642
Every year wsb are caught as far north as Tomales.
But pacbutts have never been caught south of Humboldt co...right? So I'd say remove pacbutts before wsb.  :smt002
Photobucket Sucks!

 Team A-Hulls

~old enough to know better, young enough to not care~


Clayman

  • AOTY Committee
  • *
  • View Profile
  • Location: Newport, OR (formerly Lake Almanor, CA)
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 3321
Every year wsb are caught as far north as Tomales.
But pacbutts have never been caught south of Humboldt co...right? So I'd say remove pacbutts before wsb.  :smt002
My references say Pac butts range as far south as the Channel Islands, and WSB as far north as Juneau, AK.  Maybe you guys south of Humboldt really do have Pac butts...y'all just aren't trying hard enough for em  :smt002.  Same goes for the northerners and WSB.  You never know if you don't try!
aMayesing Bros.


FishingForTheCure

  • "I'm going to make dinner because my colors taste like hungry"
  • Manatee
  • *****
  • LOWRANCE & SIMRAD PRO STAFF
  • View Profile
  • Location: Aromas
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 11334
We need to add the ever so elusive Grunion :smt005


BigJim

  • A-Hull
  • Manatee
  • *****
  • No white flags.
  • View Profile
  • Location: Watsonville
  • Date Registered: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 15216
Every year wsb are caught as far north as Tomales.
But pacbutts have never been caught south of Humboldt co...right? So I'd say remove pacbutts before wsb.  :smt002
My references say Pac butts range as far south as the Channel Islands, and WSB as far north as Juneau, AK.  Maybe you guys south of Humboldt really do have Pac butts...y'all just aren't trying hard enough for em  :smt002.  Same goes for the northerners and WSB.  You never know if you don't try!

LOL!

Yeah PK...you just need to try harder!

Still wanna see some of you hook and line guys get in on some of the sheep action in Monterey county...obviously just not trying hard enough cuz we divers seem to find em ok.

http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/speciesleaders/list_by_species/9

 :smt002

 :smt006

Sincerely,

Jim

~GS4  2010-1st~
~DOTY 2013-1st~
~T2B2 2015-1st~
*DOTY: 2012-5th~2014-5th~2015-4th~2016-7th~2017-4th~2018-5th~2019-5th~2020-2nd*


matanaska

  • Sea Lion
  • ****
  • View Profile Lost Coast Kayak Fishing Adventures
  • Location: Eureka, Ca
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 2598
1.  Add flounder back on the species list! Like Clayman said, WSB are on the other side of the world and they don't always come in thick enough for people to have a good chance of catching one.  Also add a shark species
A non-halibut flatfish category would be pretty cool.  And they're all along the CA coast, so it's not like accessibility would be an issue.

The shark category would be cool too.  At first I wasn't too fond of it since to measure any decent-sized shark would mean you'd have to kill it, and some people are averse to killing sharks.  But then I remembered sturgeon are on the AOTY list :smt005.

Well we will know later this year about how many pacific halibut are south of Humboldt since there is another survey going.  Pacific halibut are caught out of Mendocino too.  I never hear of anyone targeting down south when yall have plenty of good grounds to target them closer to shore than where I go to get em.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 01:54:26 PM by matanaska »
https://www.facebook.com/lostcoastkayakfishing



1st Place 2015 Trinidad Rockfish Wars V
1st Place 2014 CCKA AOTY
1st Place 2011 Trinidad Rockfish Wars I
2nd place 2012 Trinidad Rockfish Wars II
3rd Place Albion Open 2013
4th Place AOTY 2013
7th Place 2012 GS6
2013 Hobie Worlds USA Team member

2015 Hobie Outback
2016 Hobie Outback Limited Edition #420 of 500


Clayman

  • AOTY Committee
  • *
  • View Profile
  • Location: Newport, OR (formerly Lake Almanor, CA)
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 3321
Well we will know later this year about how many pacific halibut are south of Humboldt.  Pacific halibut are caught out of Mendocino too.  I never hear of anyone targeting down south when yall have plenty of good grounds to target them closer to shore than where I go to get em.
Exactly.  I wouldn't doubt they're down there.  They're probably just deep, like below 200 feet.  And how often do you hear of anyone fishing that deep down there?  Practically never.  Like I said: you won't know unless you try  :smt001.

It is interesting to never hear of incidental white seabass being taken north of Tomales.  You'd figure people would invariably hook a few during salmon season.  Especially this year, given there's all that squid activity up there right now.
aMayesing Bros.


Sin Coast

  • AOTY committee
  • Global Moderator
  • Pat Kuhl
  • View Profile Turf Image
  • Location: Mbay
  • Date Registered: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 14642
Oh don't get me wrong...I don't think any species should be removed from AOTY.
I was just trying to play devils advocate to the notion that certain fish (wsb) should be reconsidered since they're so regional-dependent.  :smt002  Each year there are lots of wsb caught by kayaks (many unreported and many caught by non-ncka or non-aoty yakkers). But there's only been like 6 pacbutts ever caught by kayak in CA...and Rob's caught like 80% of em right?
I have heard of pacbutts being caught out by the Farralons and unconfirmed reports of 1 from outside the Channel Islands area a few yrs ago. But it would be incredibly rare to get one...even rarer from the yak...south of Humboldt Co.
And yes, people down here actually DO fish deeper than 200ft without incidentally catching pacbutts. So it's not a matter of "not trying" for them. They just aren't here (except super rare exceptions...in which case, we might as well add Triggerfish because I've seen a half-dozen of those caught throughout the years!).
Photobucket Sucks!

 Team A-Hulls

~old enough to know better, young enough to not care~


Clayman

  • AOTY Committee
  • *
  • View Profile
  • Location: Newport, OR (formerly Lake Almanor, CA)
  • Date Registered: Apr 2010
  • Posts: 3321
And yes, people down here actually DO fish deeper than 200ft without incidentally catching pacbutts. So it's not a matter of "not trying" for them.
Maybe they gotta go 300 feet down  :smt044.

But I see what you mean PK.  I don't want to remove any species either.  The Pac halibut are the North's equivalent of the South's white seabass, in that they even each other out in terms of accessibility.  The only reason I brought them up was to address the "brown trout are too far away" argument posited in the thread from 2012.  I could care less that Pac halibut and WSB are on the list because it's highly unlikely that I'd target either one of them.  The WSB are too far away, and the Pac halibut are too much of a PITA.
aMayesing Bros.