NorCal Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing Zone => Safety First => Topic started by: Ronaldo on June 22, 2017, 03:12:26 PM
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Hello kayak anglers,
I know a lot has been written on practicing self rescue. But how would I help someone if they were not able to self rescue, either because they never practiced or because they are exhausted. If I ever come up to someone who cannot get back on their kayak what should/could I do? Do I hold their kayak to stabilize it? Call the coast guard straight away? What if I'm not on the ocean? Let me know what you would do or if there is a standard practice that I don't know about. Thanks.
Ronaldo
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Hello kayak anglers,
I know a lot has been written on practicing self rescue. But how would I help someone if they were not able to self rescue, either because they never practiced or because they are exhausted. If I ever come up to someone who cannot get back on their kayak what should/could I do? Do I hold their kayak to stabilize it? Call the coast guard straight away? What if I'm not on the ocean? Let me know what you would do or if there is a standard practice that I don't know about. Thanks.
Ronaldo
I hold on to the kayak from the other side they are trying to enter. it will keep it stable. they can also try to enter from the tankwell. if they're in danger and you can't help them get on board, stay with them and get on 16 to either wait for CG or another rescuer, or offer to tow them to shore if you can. channel 16 will be the place to go in almost all situations unless you're like on a river or something, then local law enforcement will be faster response.
Whatever you do, do not let them panic and try to enter your kayak from the side. it will likely swamp you and put both of you in danger. they can grab onto the tankwell or rear handle and it will be a lot safer and stable for you if you need to move them sans their watercraft.
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Excellent post BMB
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I've dragged a person in while they held on to my rear handle before. It took almost 20 minutes to go about a quarter mile on a flat ocean. That's not ideal, I'd put it pretty far down on the list of preferred options.
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A dry bag can be filled with water and hung from the side of the kayak. It will act as a counter balance so more energy can be used to help the person get out of the water and less trying to stabilize the kayak.
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I've dragged a person in while they held on to my rear handle before. It took almost 20 minutes to go about a quarter mile on a flat ocean. That's not ideal, I'd put it pretty far down on the list of preferred options.
What's at the top of the list?
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I've only been in this situation once.
Brother In Law rented a kayak at Negro bar to paddle with me.
Long story short, he turtled and his 6'4 320lb self could not get back in. I coached him, but he was likely at or near the capacity of that little kayak.
I don't recommend this, but I entered the water, and acted as a counterweight/ballast on the side opposite he was trying to re-enter from.
He got back in, we kept paddling. I was confident in my re-entry skills and it was warm out, both had PFD's or I would not have entered the water.
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Depends on the rescue.
I did one on the American River above the Rainbow Bridge.
Guy was in a SIK and swamped.
I was eating blackberries and having a beer sitting in my kayak when floated by. I casually asked if he needed help. He could barely get out the word yes as he was holding the submerged kayak; no PFD.
First order of business; YOU are in charge!
Speak very calmly.
I paddled next to him and explained what was going to happen.
While I hold onto your kayak you are going to hand me your paddle then hold onto the front my kayak. If you at all try to climb onto my kayak I will smash your head in with my paddle, without hesitation. Just hold on. Understood?
So we got to that point.
I am going to pull the front of your kayak onto my kayak and get a lot of the water out. Stay exactly where you are. If you don't, you're going to fuck everything up and I will bail on you. Understood?
I did the "T" rescue and got a fair amount of water out of the kayak.
I am going to push your kayak towards you while I hold on to it. I want you to get onto your kayak, then get into the cockpit. Do you know how to do that?
He nodded.
I told him not to grab my kayak as he he gets back on his. I will stabilize your kayak while you get back on. If you try to get on mine I let go of yours and you are on your own, understood?
I kind of had to coach him how to get back on, but he did fine.
Once in the kayak I told him it will be a little tippy because you still have some water in it, but it will be manageable. Paddle to the shore. I'll be right with you until you get there. Once onshore, empty all the water out and you'll be fine.
I would wait about 1/2 hour or so before getting back on the water. Make sure you are warmed up so you don't cramp up or anything.
If I see you back in the water in the next 20 minutes and you fall out again, I won't help. If you wait the full 30 and something happens, I'll help if I'm there.
He thanked me. I went back to my beer and blackberries. He did wait the 1/2 hour before he got back in. From there he made it back to the rental place at the dock safely; but he owed them for the PFD he lost.
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good job.
Bushy
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If the swimmer is near a shore or riverbank, as is typically the case in river rescues, and will sometimes be the case in lake or ocean rescues, the best rescue option may be to haul the swimmer to shore, get their kayak to shore, and deal with the situation on shore. This is particularly the case if the swimmer has filled a sit-inside kayak with water.
A swimmer who is hanging vertically in the water is like a big sea anchor, and is difficult to move. Tell the swimmer to hang on to the stern of your kayak and kick their feet so they are lying horizontally on the surface of the water. This will make them easier to tow to shore, and may even provide a little forward propulsion. On some kayaks, particularly whitewater kayaks, the swimmer may be able to pull their chest up on the stern of the rescuer's kayak, which will reduce their drag. But towing a swimmer is a lot of work in a kayak, even if the swimmer cooperates in the manner described above.
To get an empty kayak to shore, turn it upright, and put the paddle on or in it. If the empty kayak is a swamped sit-inside kayak, turn it on edge with the cockpit towards you and slowly lift the kayak out of the water. A lot of water will flow out of the cockpit as you lift the kayak, which will make the kayak easier to move. If you can, pull one end of the sit-inside kayak up onto your lap or front deck, flip the kayak upside down, and drain out more water. You can push an empty kayak with the nose of your kayak, but a more effective way to move an empty kayak is to paddle up next to the stern of the kayak and give it a big push in the direction you want it to go. Then catch up to it and repeat the process.
On a river, you don't want to try to tow a swimmer through a rocky rapid. If you get swept into a rapid while towing a swimmer, tell them to let go of the kayak and float through the rapid with their feet pointing downstream. After you get through the rapid, you can rejoin them and resume hauling them towards shore.
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Tote rescue 101.
Great response. Gotta keep the person being rescued calm.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I have done this in the ocean for a feller that was having a hard time re boarding his revo damn thing kept trying to flip back on top of him.
Get his boat next to yours on the opposite side he has all his shiza
Hold his gunwale with the hand closest to his boat.
Put your foot in the middle of his cockpit (not that one) kick him there later.
Have him grab your foot and pull himself back into his boat, using your opposite hand to keep yourself balanced.
Be sure you stay centered on your boat and you should have no problems with keeping yourself upright and his boat stable enough to allow him to re board.
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I have done this in the ocean for a feller that was having a hard time re boarding his revo damn thing kept trying to flip back on top of him.
Get his boat next to yours on the opposite side he has all his shiza
Hold his gunwale with the hand closest to his boat.
Put your foot in the middle of his cockpit (not that one) kick him there later.
Have him grab your foot and pull himself back into his boat, using your opposite hand to keep yourself balanced.
Be sure you stay centered on your boat and you should have no problems with keeping yourself upright and his boat stable enough to allow him to re board.
I did a rescue last week. Stabilized the boat opposite of the side he was hanging from. Predator was too wide for him to reach the outside gunnel (closest to me) so I gave him my hand to grab. One of my feet in his boat stabilizing. the other foot outside my boat on the other side for my own stability. Porky and uot f shape but young, he made it.
Like Tote says stay calm, talk calm, explain exactly what you are going to do and what he has to do (DO NOT grab my kayak!!..
Good job.
Bushy
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stay calm, talk calm, explain exactly what you are going to do and what he has to do (DO NOT grab my kayak!!..
This!
Reassure them that everything is going to be OK
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Good responses - good learning for all.
I'd add: once you have a handle on the situation, give them at least a mild ration of shit for having gotten in trouble where they obviously were not prepared.
If you are someone who does this sport and you do not dive out of your yak in the ocean or swim out of your yak in rivers and lakes, then you really NEED to go do dedicated practice in self rescue. This is imperative.
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Hello kayak anglers,
I know a lot has been written on practicing self rescue.
So Ronaldo, did you read those posts?
Tote's post has a lot of good info in it, but I want to clarify a couple of his points:
- 1 The rescuer's safety is #1 priority in all decisions and actions. Sad but true because the fewer at-risk people in the water, the better.
- 2 Getting the victim to help has 2 benefits: It makes a tough job somewhat easier AND it gets them thinking about productive things instead of panicking.
- 3 Taking a cue from whitewater kayakers, who have the toughest conditions to overcome, the most successful method is to approach the re-entry from either end of the boat, a la "cowboy style," not directly from the side of the cockpit.
Rivers are very different from lakes and oceans, by definition they are moving water and if they are active enough to tip someone out, then the river will likely have a lot of physical obstacles that are hazardous to all boaters. Here are some thoughts:
- The obstacles include the obvious rock, and the very dangerous downed trees and branches, which are known as "strainers." Not only do these knock boaters over, their submerged branches are notorious for catching and keeping "swimmers" (boaters that have fallen out of their boats) underwater. Trees are killers, and unfortunately they are often along the river banks, which is exactly where "swimmers" need/want to go.
- River rescues and recoveries mostly involve getting the "swimmer" back to the shore, which is generally a short trip. The problem is that the boater and the boat are easily separated and this can mean the boater is seriously stranded.
- Often, the rivers have too many trees, big rocks, or steep sides to allow immediate or direct exiting. This can mean that the swimmer may have to stay in the water much longer in order to safely bypass dangerous obstacles and arrive at a safe exit point.
- Because the river is moving the boaters along, rescuer(s) must continually evaluate the conditions and reassess their plan, including the potential need to abandon the victim.
- Fast moving rivers are mostly in mountainous areas and therefore the water is COLD. Slower moving rivers are mostly warmer.
- If conditions allow on-the-water fiddling/reentry, using the paddle as an additional grab bar to reenter can be a big help, here's how: Keep the victim boat between the victim and the rescuer, the victim's paddle gets laid across the rear of the victim cockpit/seat, perpendicular to the boat, the rescuer can then press/hold down the end of the paddle that is on the rescue side of the boat and the victim can then grab the paddle with one hand and the gunwale with the other and more easily pull up onto the gunwale and/or swing a leg up onto/into the cockpit. It can help for the rescuer to sit on the end of the paddle. This paddle helps stabilize the boat before, during, and after the victim reenters.
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Everyone has overlooked the emotional state of the person who needs help. If they're panicked there's not much you're going to say that will get them to calm down and act rationally, and that puts you in danger.
When I was a rescue swimmer, I had to forcefully kick people off and away from me many times.
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Thanks ya'll for the responses. Scurvy-I read them all including yours. Thanks. I see the common practice is mainly helping stabilize the kayak and helping them get to shore. If they cover this sort of thing in one of those kayak safety classes please let me know. I'm asking because when I went to the last GS I heard over the radio people assisting someone who had fallen off and I wondered how are they assisting him. I agree with the comments about not letting the person drag you in too. My Grandpa used to say you can only help a person out to the point where they start dragging you down with them.
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If they cover this sort of thing in one of those kayak safety classes please let me know.
I believe that self-recovery/assisted recovery is covered in most of the basic ocean kayak classes... which is why they are prerequisites for the more advanced classes. I took the CCK kayak fishing class and it was well worth it. They explain the techniques (self-rescue, w/paddle, w/o paddle, paddle floats, inflatable bags, etc), demonstrate the techniques, and then make you go swimming to practice all the techniques. Then they teach you how to do the buddy rescue techniques... then you switch up kayaks and try self-rescues on different hull shapes. It was totally worth the time and money. Or, just go to a NCKA self rescue practice hook-up. :smt003
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Sometime getting back to shore really is not an option because there is no shore.
Cliffs and rock outcroppings make it impossible to just 'take the guy to shore'.
Once they are in the kayak you can pick your spot when it presents itself.
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When I was a rescue swimmer, I had to forcefully kick people off and away from me many times.
Well, when you are a rescue swimmer, the person probably doesn't have a PFD on and might be actively drowning and trying to use YOU as a flotation device. Hopefully with a kayak fisherman, they have a PFD on (right?!) are dressed for immersion (right?!) and are hanging onto a giant flotation device (their SOT hopefully, not a SINK!). So hopefully it's just a case of getting them up and onto their boat.
That said, no doubt folks could be freaking out, especially if they are failing to get back on, are around rocks and waves, getting cold, or whatever. Or are wearing shorts and a cotton T-shirt, no PFD, etc. Like with all aid/rescue/etc. I'm sure forcefully and confidently taking control of the situation makes a big difference (as Tote talked about).
Rescue swimming sounds dangerous!
Should have explained this: I was a Rescue Swimmer in the Coast Guard, not a lifeguard, and most were wearing a PFD. In the water, in an emergency, even with a helicopter hovering overhead, people can get weird.
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If they cover this sort of thing in one of those kayak safety classes please let me know.
I believe that self-recovery/assisted recovery is covered in most of the basic ocean kayak classes... which is why they are prerequisites for the more advanced classes. I took the CCK kayak fishing class and it was well worth it. They explain the techniques (self-rescue, w/paddle, w/o paddle, paddle floats, inflatable bags, etc), demonstrate the techniques, and then make you go swimming to practice all the techniques. Then they teach you how to do the buddy rescue techniques... then you switch up kayaks and try self-rescues on different hull shapes. It was totally worth the time and money. Or, just go to a NCKA self rescue practice hook-up. :smt003
Best advice in the whole thread. (Most of us have started here)
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If they cover this sort of thing in one of those kayak safety classes please let me know.
I believe that self-recovery/assisted recovery is covered in most of the basic ocean kayak classes... which is why they are prerequisites for the more advanced classes. I took the CCK kayak fishing class and it was well worth it. They explain the techniques (self-rescue, w/paddle, w/o paddle, paddle floats, inflatable bags, etc), demonstrate the techniques, and then make you go swimming to practice all the techniques. Then they teach you how to do the buddy rescue techniques... then you switch up kayaks and try self-rescues on different hull shapes. It was totally worth the time and money. Or, just go to a NCKA self rescue practice hook-up. :smt003
That was a great class.
One thing taught there but so far not mentioned so far; I've used this on flat water and it works well. Have the person in trouble (if they can't get back into their boat for whatever reason) hug the bottom of your kayak at the nose. Arms and legs. It does create massive drag, and it's a bitch to paddle, but it works for short distances. Not really first choice stuff, but it's a good one to have in the arsenal. When I used this I also tied a tow rope to the other kayak (flooded SIK) and dragged that behind me. If this wasn't on a calm lake not too far from shore, I probably would have done something different.
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Go someplace relatively safe and warm. When they least expect it, flip them. #sinkorswimmethod
Once they realize how important it is to learn the technique or remain bobbing....
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One thing taught there but so far not mentioned so far; I've used this on flat water and it works well. Have the person in trouble (if they can't get back into their boat for whatever reason) hug the bottom of your kayak at the nose. Arms and legs. It does create massive drag, and it's a bitch to paddle, but it works for short distances. Not really first choice stuff, but it's a good one to have in the arsenal. When I used this I also tied a tow rope to the other kayak (flooded SIK) and dragged that behind me. If this wasn't on a calm lake not too far from shore, I probably would have done something different.
Not a good idea. Have the swimmer hang on to the stern handle or grab loop of your kayak and kick their feet so they lay horizontal in the water. This is how whitewater kayakers get swimmers to shore. There is still a lot of drag, but way less than having the swimmer bear hug the bow of your kayak, and a swimmer hanging onto the stern of your kayak won't interfere with your paddle stroke or the stability of your kayak.
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During the L2 Rescue Class I took with CCK, we learned a technique where you tie two kayaks together to make a super stable platform. You can stand up and pull someone out of the water if you need to and even do CPR.
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Not a good idea. Have the swimmer hang on to the stern handle or grab loop of your kayak and kick their feet so they lay horizontal in the water. This is how whitewater kayakers get swimmers to shore. There is still a lot of drag, but way less than having the swimmer bear hug the bow of your kayak, and a swimmer hanging onto the stern of your kayak won't interfere with your paddle stroke or the stability of your kayak.
If I remember correctly, the reasoning to have them on the bow is so you can continue to monitor them during (the potentially long distance) movement. It's also less work for the person to hold on because the water pressure keeps them pressed against the bow.
It makes sense in swift water to grab the stern and let the paddler maintain directional control of the kayak, even with the increased drag. In open water, I think the methodology shifts from that of a sprint to safety to a steady jog.
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Not a good idea. Have the swimmer hang on to the stern handle or grab loop of your kayak and kick their feet so they lay horizontal in the water. This is how whitewater kayakers get swimmers to shore. There is still a lot of drag, but way less than having the swimmer bear hug the bow of your kayak, and a swimmer hanging onto the stern of your kayak won't interfere with your paddle stroke or the stability of your kayak.
If I remember correctly, the reasoning to have them on the bow is so you can continue to monitor them during (the potentially long distance) movement. It's also less work for the person to hold on because the water pressure keeps them pressed against the bow.
It makes sense in swift water to grab the stern and let the paddler maintain directional control of the kayak, even with the increased drag. In open water, I think the methodology shifts from that of a sprint to safety to a steady jog.
Yes, this is a good deal of it, especially where hypothermia might be a concern. It was also described as a way to help someone that might be in rough enough shape that they can't swim behind. FWIW, on a 14' boat, there was no interference to paddle stroke, and only minimal effect on boat stability.