Striper effect on Salmon

Jim 'rockfish' makes a good argument about the ocean productivity isssue.  Striped bass predation did not cause the recent population crash.  Poor ocean productivity cycles that occur at the decade scale known as the 'Pacific Decadal Oscillation'  switched to a warmer less productive ocean leading to a die-off of smolts in the ocean in 2005-6 along with poor survival of lots of other organisms.  Striped bass predation, now, with lower levels of smolt production....'slightly lower', could be a problem for getting the population to recover. 

Salmon have to be one of the most amazing species on the planet 

When you think about what they have to get past to survive and procreate

stripers
furbags
whales
sharks
fleets of commies and saltwater sport fishermen
huge industrial fleets
trawlers
long-liners
drift nets
ghost nets
delta conditions
starvation
bears
river fishermen
gill netters
dams
turbines
spawning grounds slimey and silted up by clear cutting and water rights greed
did I leave anything out?

from start to finish they're running the gauntlet

miss the pull and the look and smell of them

Salmon have to be one of the most amazing species on the planet 
When you think about what they have to get past to survive and procreate
stripers
furbags
whales
sharks
fleets of commies and saltwater sport fishermen
huge industrial fleets
trawlers
long-liners
drift nets
ghost nets
delta conditions
starvation
bears
river fishermen
gill netters
dams
turbines
spawning grounds slimey and silted up by clear cutting and water rights greed
did I leave anything out?
from start to finish they're running the gauntlet
miss the pull and the look and smell of them

I'm totally agree with you.  Love to watch the "Miracle of Salmon" over and over again!

Agree and one of the most amazing things to me is the swim 900+ miles to spawn in Idaho despite all those obstacles then the fry gotta swim back.

Salmon can do some amazing things. I watched them almost crawl over the rapids on the Russian and Eel in the 70's as a student in that science. They are a very tough fish but only to a point.
The runs will be good this year and very large the next. The problems affecting the Pacific comes across the ocean, there is not a lot we can do except to make sure as tecmology advances that enough fish survive to return from the sea. The salmons problems are not in the rivers that have plenty of regulation on the amounts and quality of water availble to them.
for those of you who dont understand how science is done it todays world, look to see which three corperations own the tv (abc,nbc,cbs and most of the others stations) and which few own the newspaper and see how they make their money. Then you will understand the meaning of the words junk science.

The salmons problems are not in the rivers that have plenty of regulation on the amounts and quality of water availble to them.

I call bullshit.

The problems affecting the Pacific comes across the ocean, there is not a lot we can do except to make sure as tecmology advances that enough fish survive to return from the sea.

The problems affecting the Pacific are many and complex.  To distill it down to one point source is an oversimplification of the problem.   Until we step back and take a look at the big picture as a whole and figure out how to address it in a systematic and unified approach, we will remain a divided community with an inability to truly address the problems (plural) affecting our ocean and waterways.  And many of the consumptive (ab)users of the system like it exactly that way.

-Allen

Allen: +100

Ocean_314: -1276 (BS)

You forgot government bureaucrats and  their politics.

Short science lesson


2c: the whole system is out of whack, there is no one culprit, but the state only has the attention span of a gnat and cant look at the system as a whole and will thus not likley be able to fix the salmon/orca/smelt/delta/human need problems...

Jim

Great information here Jim

But there is in fact one culprit and it is humans, get rid of the vermin and the earth will restore, but wait till I'm done first please...
my 2 cents

Stoggie

Well a little more for you all to think about. in the last couple of week both china and India has told the pres to drop dead, neither country is going to do anything to control the pollution they put out.
If we stopped driving all cars and got our power from the wind and solar only it would do nothing, have no impact on the overall worldwide pollution both in CO2 sulfur nitrox oxide and or anything else.
Until china and india start to control some of their pollution output, we are all in a world of hurt. 30% of the air pollution in San Fran comes from china.
by the way the global warming that the left pushes was started by General Electric when they bought NBC and all the NBC stations 15 years ago. If carbon credits gets passed GE stands to make 200 to 300 billion as they make all the parts that go into windmills and solar arrays. The CEO of GE sits on the president's left in all cabinet level meeting on the enviroment. you can see this in C-span whenever there is such a meeting. As a reporter if you dont say and do as GE demands you are fired and the honest ones have been years ago.
Before GE got into telivision and the global warming i studied in college, was about deforestion. It was about what happens if all the trees are cut done in the jungles of the Amazon and Africa.
Now guess who owns ABC and all the kids channels for the purpose of dumping the cost of thier employees health insurance on the tax payer. Hmmm???????

Oh and the salmon have or had runs in all the small rivers that went through the bay area. I fished for kings in coyote creek in san jose up until i moved in 92. Its a slow moving mud bottom creek with lots of chemcials from lawns and gardens and the road in it. The run got on TV a few years later and all the bums linned the creek with spears or whatever and had a nice couple of dinners, so i dont know if  the run survived.
The salmon surived the gold minning of the 1800's and the logging of this century, they have better river conditions now then they have had for 150 years.

The salmon survived the gold mining of the 1800's and the logging of this century, they have better river conditions now then they have had for 150 years.

The salmon have better hatcheries than they had 150 years ago, not better rivers.  Dump those hatchery smolts in a suffering river and you get survival rates that are way lower than what they would be on a healthy river.  Now run them through the gauntlet we call the the ocean and you have a recipe for disaster.

I don't disagree that countries like India and China have a tremendous effect, but to lesson the effects of global warming and the degradation due logging on rainforests (and our west coast forests for that matter) is reckless at best, and in the least, narrow minded.

Coyote Creek has suffered from channel control and development more than China/India.  Show me where there is decent spawning grounds anywhere on that creek.  Can't blame that on China/India, or maybe you can.

-Allen

I dont know where the fish where spawning in coyote creek but there was a run every year from the early 70's to 92 when i fished the salmon, also there was a steelehad run all the way up to the IBM plant on cottle in that little creek that flowed in the Gaudalupe river. I could walk from my condo and watch the steelhead move up.
These are tough tough fish.