NorCal Kayak Anglers
General => Craftsmen's Corner => Topic started by: Tinker on September 04, 2017, 09:39:17 AM
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I keep forgetting to bring water for the transducer puck and not knowing how good beer is for my transducer, I want to GOOP the thing in and be done with the water silliness.
The interior of a Trident hull isn't flat. It'll take a sizeable pool of GOOP. I don't know about others' experience, but the GOOP I use will flow and spread out and make it a PITA to try to stick evenly to the transducer.
Do I make a dam to contain the goop?
Is there a better method to semi-permanently glue in the transducer?
Am I assuming there'll a problem when there won't be?
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I use a pool noodle as a dam---shape it to fit the contour of the bottom of your kayak, cut out the center to match the shape of your transducer, then goop it in place. Once that dries a bit, fill 'er up with goop, insert the transducer, and never worry about it again.
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I've Gooped. I've 3M'd. I've pool noodled.
The best by far, IMO, is duct putty.
Once you have it the way you want it, put Saran Wrap over the putty. It will still be pliable but will not stick to your hands or your TD.
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I use a pool noodle as a dam---shape it to fit the contour of the bottom of your kayak, cut out the center to match the shape of your transducer, then goop it in place. Once that dries a bit, fill 'er up with goop, insert the transducer, and never worry about it again.
Thank you. I have a hunk of closed-cell foam in there now (a slice of a yoga roller instead of pool noodle) so Step #1 is done. I would certainly have made it much harder...
I've Gooped. I've 3M'd. I've pool noodled.
The best by far, IMO, is duct putty.
Once you have it the way you want it, put Saran Wrap over the putty. It will still be pliable but will not stick to your hands or your TD.
Thank you. I understand that duct putty is great, but is there any truth at all to the rumor that the oils (?) in duct putty can damage the transducer? Don't remember where I read that but it's always held me back from using it.
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Having Gooped twice, and scraped it off the hull and transducer twice, I'm never doing that again. Goop the donut only (It's flexible and seems to stick fine, unlike the hard transducer.), then keep adding water bottles to the car until the family complains. If you Goop, do so where you can easily get a hair dryer or heat gun and a putty knife in - and you'll need at least a couple of beers to finish the job of scraping it off.
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You should also put some weight on top of the transducer while the goop is drying. That should prevent any air bubbles from forming.
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Thank you. I understand that duct putty is great, but is there any truth at all to the rumor that the oils (?) in duct putty can damage the transducer? Don't remember where I read that but it's always held me back from using it.
Once you have it the way you want it, put Saran Wrap over the putty. It will still be pliable but will not stick to your hands or your TD.
YEARS of doing it this way and my TD is just fine.
Rumors, that's all they are. Rumors. Just ask Fleetwood Mac.
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I just recently installed a FF and after some unsuccessful experiences with goop (hull wasnt exactly flat so the pool noodle wouldn't stick to the bottom, tried gooping directly and the goop spread everywhere) I went to home depot and did the duct seal route. It was super easy, I just ripped the block in half, gently widened it into the rough shape/size of a hamburger patty, stuck it to the hull, and then just firmly pushed the fish finder down into the duct seal patty. The transducer data readout looks great on the FF screen and I even was able to use some duct seal around where the plugs go into the FF screen to help waterproof that. I'd highly recommend the duct seal route.
Also, after I decided to switch to duct seal I found that denatured alcohol on a paper towel helped dissolve the goop mess inside the hull and let me easily remove it in large pieces. I'm not sure whether it would work the same on goop that had fully cured but it might.
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Thank you. I understand that duct putty is great, but is there any truth at all to the rumor that the oils (?) in duct putty can damage the transducer? Don't remember where I read that but it's always held me back from using it.
YEARS of doing it this way and my TD is just fine.
Rumors, that's all they are. Rumors. Just ask Fleetwood Mac.
Pff-ft! That was too easy...
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I've tried the duct seal putty (it melted off when my kayak sat upside down on my car in the sun after a session). I've tried the GOOP exactly as Nowhereman described (I still got lots of air bubbles as the GOOP cured despite being very meticulous and putting a heavy weight on top while it cured).
The only method I have found (in my own experience) to be foolproof and long-lasting is to create a water bath. I used a cut up kneeling pad from the gardening section at Home Depot.
You might get lucky and have no problems with the GOOP. Or you could end up with a giant PITA job of scraping bubbly GOOP off your kayak hull and transducer.
Don't you bring drinking water with you when you go kayaking? If so, just use some to fill your water bath!
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I've tried the duct seal putty (it melted off when my kayak sat upside down on my car in the sun after a session).
How exactly did it melt?
Was there a pile of dripping goo or did it just fall off?
My garage gets hotter than hell, yes literally :smt002, and I store my kayak on it's side. No problems at all.
I've also had my kayak in the sun in scortching heat. Again, no problem at all.
Make sure you thoroughly clean the surface before you stick it on.
I made a donut ring and put it on the inside of the kayak. Made another and put it on that and so on.
Kneaded it all together so it acts like the pool noodle bath method.
I even keep an extra blob on the side in case I need to patch a leak, but that hasn't happened yet.
What I found is with the other methods sand would eventually work it's way under the adhesive and create a leak. A few times I'd have to put the TD in a baggie, fill THAT with water, then put it in dry the pool noodle bath.
If knead be (pun intended) I can alter the configuration of the putty OTW or block any leaks, but I haven't had to at all.
You'll figure it out whatever way you decide to go.
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Don't you bring drinking water with you when you go kayaking? If so, just use some to fill your water bath!
Sometimes I drinks water, sometimes I drinks Gatorade, and sometimes I drinks some beers ( not really ). It was scorching hot the other day and I brought lots of Gatorade but not water. Had to wade way out in the waves to get to seawater without sand in it.
Okay, so I only did it once, but I didn't like it. Sucks cleaning sand out of a puck and off the GOOP that squeezed out when I set the puck. I could be more careful, but I thought I might want to take my memory out of the equation. :drunken_smilie1:
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You'll figure it out whatever way you decide to go.
Not without the help of wiser minds than mine, Tote! Don't leave me treading water! Especially not after reading about putting the transducer in a baggie. They'd be making strawberry milk shakes in Hell before I'd have thought of that.
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Why drinking water? Most Tranducers are IN the water, not in the hull - fresh, brack or salt. If you need water for it, drop a little of what you're floating in. Yes, get outside the mud, reeds or sand first.
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My transducer only works when bathed in artesian water from the eastern slopes of mountains, gathered in Waterford crystal decanters by vestal virgins...
It's the "add water after you find clean water" part that doesn't make me comfortable. Scooting up and opening the main hatch in bumpy water never gets to be fun. Do-able of course. But not fun.
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I did prep the surface by scuffing with fine sandpaper and wiping with rubbing alcohol. It still got very soft in the heat, peeled clean off, and fell into some sand and condensation in the hull... I repeated that process a time or two and had similar results.
I guess it's possible I had a bad batch of duct seal, but I'be since found a method that works better for me. Zero issues so far with the water bath.
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I guess it's possible I had a bad batch of duct seal, but I'be since found a method that works better for me. Zero issues so far with the water bath.
A bad batch is possible.
I was worried about what you described when I first tried it. But like I mentioned before, zero problems. (now watch what happens the next time I go out) :smt011
I too use a water bath, it's just that my pool noodle is now duct putty.
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...Once you have it the way you want it, put Saran Wrap over the putty. It will still be pliable but will not stick to your hands or your TD.
that's a GREAT idea, thx!
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FWIW, I've never had to scrape goop off my kayak after removing a transducer, and I've done it a bunch of times. I just wedge a very wide screwdriver under the lip a bit and pop it like an abalone. It comes off the kayak cleanly. You still need to deal with scraping it off the transducer, but that's an easier proposition.
-Allen
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The trick with the GOOP is to let it tack up a little before applying, kind of like a contact adhesive. Most people just put it on and immediately push the transducer down causing the air bubbles.
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mix about half of each --quickly-- put a cookie sized 1/4 thick putty knifed into inside -flat spot..wait till tacky-quick stuff--push transducer firmly until even spread out...put 2 sections of long duct tape in a cross pattern over the top to hold down for any shifting as it sets up...
jb can be peeled off..light chisel if needed later--if it pops free only a thin coat will put the unit back..leave the cookie to whatever side it stayed etc..done right --mines two years and holding ..lots of loading and bumps..
i use the quick set mostly
an old sock and some gas help with drips and hands when its fresh
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FWIW, I've never had to scrape goop off my kayak after removing a transducer, and I've done it a bunch of times. I just wedge a very wide screwdriver under the lip a bit and pop it like an abalone. It comes off the kayak cleanly. You still need to deal with scraping it off the transducer, but that's an easier proposition.
-Allen
That's been my experience when removing a water bath puck. Once I wedge a small opening, it comes off cleanly.
The trick with the GOOP is to let it tack up a little before applying, kind of like a contact adhesive. Most people just put it on and immediately push the transducer down causing the air bubbles.
No one has ever mentioned that before now. Thank you!
mix about half of each --quickly-- put a cookie sized 1/4 thick putty knifed into inside -flat spot..wait till tacky-quick stuff--push transducer firmly until even spread out...put 2 sections of long duct tape in a cross pattern over the top to hold down for any shifting as it sets up...
jb can be peeled off..light chisel if needed later--if it pops free only a thin coat will put the unit back..leave the cookie to whatever side it stayed etc..done right --mines two years and holding ..lots of loading and bumps..
i use the quick set mostly
an old sock and some gas help with drips and hands when its fresh
I'm surprised JB Weld can be removed cleanly since folks use it to repair spots on the hull. Do you sand and prep the hull before applying it?
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If you really want to get something to stick to polyethylene, heat treat the PE first by passing a propane torch quickly over the surface.
Here are some tests with various plastics using g-flex
http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/gluing-plastic-with-gflex-epoxy/
For PE, they get results that are 6x stronger by wiping with alcohol and heat treating, as compared to just sanding.
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That's good to know. Thanks!
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A couple of things I learned the hard way in TD attachment.
If you goop/epoxy, be ABSOLUTELY sure to secure the TD in place while it sets up. It can lean over on you and not shoot straight down like you would like it to.
If you plan on winter fishing choose a cold weather rated adhesive or epoxy. I have had my foam block setup pop off in the cold before. In all fairness to the epoxy, I was kind of bouncing my kayak down a snow covered rocky slope.
Good luck
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I have had my foam block setup pop off in the cold before. In all fairness to the epoxy, I was kind of bouncing my kayak down a snow covered rocky slope.
Ha!
I'm not sure how I'll attach the transducer in the long run, but my plans changed on-the-fly when the crimped end of my new tube of GOOP split open while I was laying down a bead. Got just what I deserved, I think.
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... In all fairness to the epoxy, I was kind of bouncing my kayak down a snow covered rocky slope.
Need a video of that!
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Something I didn't like about gooping the TD is that the TD is then dedicated to that kayak.
I like removing the entire assembly, TD, FF and battery after each and every trip.
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Hi,
I used clear silicone to adhere my transducer to the inside of my Kayak. Silicone is thick in consistency and won't run. Apply a thick amount and be patient with setting and curing time. Left it alone for a day or so and it was perfectly secured. Went out and the FF was working wonderfully. I have a Lowrance Hook4x the image is clear and I was happy with the results of the install. My two cents.
Thanks,
PY
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Thank you. There's a thread on using GOOP v. silicone to mount transducers somewhere around here, and the general consensus is that because silicone is often temperature sensitive, it doesn't work well for a transducer mount.
Is there a specific kind of silicone you're using?
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Tinker,
I use the silicone that is made to seal windows. It is made to withstand the elements. My Father is a mason and has used it for years on external jobs and recommended it to me. Homedepot or any hardware store carries this type 2 silicone! Works great for me hopefully it'll work great for you!
Thanks,
PY
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PY, I read this when you posted it, but forgot to thank you. Thanks!
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Glad to help brother! Good Luck and Happy Fishing!
Thanks,
PY
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Curious, still consider myself new to kayak fishing, but I bought my used OK T-13 with a scuppers transducer.
https://www.google.com/search?q=humminbird+kayak+scupper+transducer&tbm=shop&lsf=seller:1247961,rt:4,pgb:1,cid:11210006846433951481,pid:2636711823727992545,oid:16412705580429863472&hl=en-US&ei=ewf7WaepOYO6jwOzoZqgAw&lsft=gclid:CjwKCAjwhOvPBRBxEiwAx2nhLt4dFv4OVUE_goUx8YuKhQSSooS58QoA7CrPTXydDbyPtpcgZPJVghoCtrkQAvD_BwE
Why don't more people go this route? Is this a Humminbird only product?
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The Humminbird XTH 9 20 fits the transducer scupper pocket, but you get about 30' of cable to deal with, plus where once you could get a transducer exchange from Humminbird, now you must buy the proper transducer.
The adapter for a Lowrance transducer - I've only seen one that had been installed - leaves the transducer proud of a Trident hull, and like the XTH 9 20 you have a lot of excess cable to deal with. I'm known to make graceful skidding landings on beaches, and I'd rather not be dragging a transducer in the sand when I do. Or dragging it on anything, to be honest.
Mounting in the hull is a "cleaner" looking installation IMHO, and protects the transducer.
Mounting in-hull also allows me to secure the extra cable below deck, and except for a slight deviation in actual v. displayed water temperature readings, it has a negligible - essentially no - effect on transducer performance. I've watched side-by-side tests that show a slight loss of down-scan imaging detail with a through-hull mount, but not enough to concern me. YMMV.
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:smt044
How can you forget to bring water for the transducer? IT is inside a kayak right? You're going to launch it at some point on water.
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The last time I left the water at home before asking this question was the day I was fishing in truly muddy - practically spoon-able - water. That was as good a time as any to say, "Enough is, by God, enough!" :smt003
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Why goop when you can mount a external Transducer ??
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Why goop when you can mount a external Transducer ??
See response #34.
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Why goop when you can mount a external Transducer ??
See response #34.
If you mean something like a Scotty transducer arm, another reason that won't work for me is that I fly fish. I'm constantly casting a long line and leader, and the cable run, the mount, and the arm are just more things to reach out and snag my fly line or leader - but I'd view a transducer arm quite differently if I still fished with conventional gear. Thanks for the suggestion. It may not work for me, but it could help others.
There's a NWKA member who uses super-strong rare earth magnets inside his hull to hold a fully submerged DIY transducer arm to his kayak, keeping the slack cable inside the hull. That's always looked interesting to me, but if I'm too stupid to remember to bring a tiny bottle of water with me, I'll surely forget the magnets. :smt001
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The Humminbird XTH 9 20 fits the transducer scupper pocket, but you get about 30' of cable to deal with, plus where once you could get a transducer exchange from Humminbird, now you must buy the proper transducer.
The adapter for a Lowrance transducer - I've only seen one that had been installed - leaves the transducer proud of a Trident hull, and like the XTH 9 20 you have a lot of excess cable to deal with. I'm known to make graceful skidding landings on beaches, and I'd rather not be dragging a transducer in the sand when I do. Or dragging it on anything, to be honest.
Mounting in the hull is a "cleaner" looking installation IMHO, and protects the transducer.
Mounting in-hull also allows me to secure the extra cable below deck, and except for a slight deviation in actual v. displayed water temperature readings, it has a negligible - essentially no - effect on transducer performance. I've watched side-by-side tests that show a slight loss of down-scan imaging detail with a through-hull mount, but not enough to concern me. YMMV.
Fair enough, especially on points of image quality and lowrance units sitting proud of the hull. My Humminbird unit is flush and personally I have had no problems with bumping or scraping. The OK T-13 has a slot for the cable to run through the hull, the excess is coiled inside. No problems with cable management for me. There is literally nothing that could get hung up on a fly rod. To each his own. I am learning there are about 12 ways to do the same thing when it comes to kayak fishing. It comes down to preference.
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To cast a stupid fly, I have 20 to 30 feet of line plus six to ten feet of leader out of the rod. It doesn't take much to create a problem if I flub a cast - which I'll never admit to doing.
That 13 inches of exposed cable between the scupper and the sonar pod probably wouldn't be a problem if I used spinning gear or casting gear or went out jigging, but I don't use real gear, and flies can (do) get into the darnedest places.
I have no doubt there are a lot of people who are much more accomplished at flinging flies from a kayak than me, but until I am as graceful as are they, I need to work within my limitations. Or I get to spend the day shouting at snagged flies using words you'll never hear in Sunday school. BTDT, more than once.
And honestly, I don't want 28 feet of cable coiled up inside the sonar pod, even with cable ties to keep it neatly coiled. Coiled and tied, the only thing I can use to secure the coil is the fish finder mount. Certainly the coiled cable wouldn't be something I'd routinely snag, but it would offend my sense of esthetics. :smt003