NorCal Kayak Anglers
Dive Zone => Kayak Diving and Spearfishing => Topic started by: mtitch12 on November 30, 2017, 02:43:56 PM
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Took advantage of the nice conditions last week and took the yak out. Scored big with my first norcal and also personal best sheephead (22 lbs). Also got my first copper (19.25 inches), 3 reds (biggest 20.5 inches, also a PB), a ling, and a nice blue.
I finally put together a video of the day. Here's the link: https://youtu.be/VQEXfi72Y_g
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Congrats on the current 1st place on DOTY!
Good luck with holding that spot through Dec.
Nice seal action at least you know whitey wasn't around :smt001
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Hell yeah dude!!!
:smt007 :smt007 :smt007 :smt007
Awesome fish, and an amazing day!!
Congrats again!!
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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ThatÂ’s a great day. Congrats. Thanks for sharing the video.
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Hell Yeah....
WTG . Nice fish for sure and video as well.
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bro you're stoning em on every shot! Looks like an amazing day- wish I'd been out there w/you!
can't believe you passed on a ling for a sheepshead, yeah, I know doty. After that's settled let's go get some epic lings and reds!
thanks for the great vid!
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Congrats on the current 1st place on DOTY!
Good luck with holding that spot through Dec.
Nice seal action at least you know whitey wasn't around :smt001
Thanks! Haha yeah I'll do the best I can, but I know there are some really good divers like BigJim who will definitely overtake me if I don't upgrade my lower scores... All that sea lion action made me nervous :smt005
Hell yeah dude!!!
Awesome fish, and an amazing day!!
Congrats again!!
ThatÂ’s a great day. Congrats. Thanks for sharing the video.
Hell Yeah....
WTG . Nice fish for sure and video as well.
Thanks guys!
can't believe you passed on a ling for a sheepshead, yeah, I know doty. After that's settled let's go get some epic lings and reds!
Haha it was an easy decision! The video doesn't do it justice but that was a monster ling (probably a 40 incher). Not sure if I would have had a shot at him because he was swimming away at a fairly good pace. We'll have to go back and see if he's still there...
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Great day! That copper is a beaut.
What was that fish at 0:45?
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Wow, you cleaned up!
Was that N Coast?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Haha yeah I'll do the best I can, but I know there are some really good divers like BigJim who will definitely overtake me if I don't upgrade my lower scores
You have plenty of room to upgrade for sure!!
I will have a hard time catching you even if you don't do any upgrades though...you have some SUPER solid fish!! :smt007
I will be actively trying for Ling/Cab upgrade but that won't be a ton of points...if get lucky may get a few points for a bigger grassy or olive...I suck at scallops and hate shooting greenling so doubt I will get any points there. :smt005 :smt044
I spent a LOT of time trying for a big striper or butt (23 dive days lol) and the three butts I came up with didn't even make my top fifteen. :smt013 :smt005 :smt044
This is our first year doing top 15 format instead of all species counting, and I for sure had my reservations...but a top 15 like yours (with quality sheep, red, copper, black, olive etc) is an excellent example IMO of a winning top 15. :smt001
Anyway, congrats again on such an awesome day and I look forward to seeing what you come up with before 12/31 at midnight!!
:smt001
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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Congrats on the PB fish. You got ball diving with "shark baits" swimming around you. Thanks for the report, picture, and video.
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Great day! That copper is a beaut.
What was that fish at 0:45?
Thanks! That was a 6-7 foot shark. Not sure what species...
Wow, you cleaned up!
Was that N Coast?
Thanks! It was in Monterey County.
Haha yeah I'll do the best I can, but I know there are some really good divers like BigJim who will definitely overtake me if I don't upgrade my lower scores
You have plenty of room to upgrade for sure!!
I will have a hard time catching you even if you don't do any upgrades though...you have some SUPER solid fish!! :smt007
I will be actively trying for Ling/Cab upgrade but that won't be a ton of points...if get lucky may get a few points for a bigger grassy or olive...I suck at scallops and hate shooting greenling so doubt I will get any points there. :smt005 :smt044
I spent a LOT of time trying for a big striper or butt (23 dive days lol) and the three butts I came up with didn't even make my top fifteen. :smt013 :smt005 :smt044
This is our first year doing top 15 format instead of all species counting, and I for sure had my reservations...but a top 15 like yours (with quality sheep, red, copper, black, olive etc) is an excellent example IMO of a winning top 15. :smt001
Anyway, congrats again on such an awesome day and I look forward to seeing what you come up with before 12/31 at midnight!
Thanks! Looking forward to seeing what you get in the next month too. This day is definitely a perfect example that anything can happen out there. One of the reasons diving/fishing is so fun! My goal this year was to finish top 5, so I'm super stoked that I got lucky enough with some quality fish to have a chance to win.
Can't say I agree with the new "top 15 rule", because it effectively penalizes divers that put in the time to successfully hunt more species of fish, which is really the spirit of DOTY (at least it seems like that from my limited experience). But it is definitely working in my favor right now, so I'm not complaining :smt005
Congrats on the PB fish. You got ball diving with "shark baits" swimming around you. Thanks for the report, picture, and video.
Thanks! Yeah that was definitely on my mind out there. The sea lions seemed to be very comfortable though so it kind of made me think that there probably wasn't a shark around. Who knows though!
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Thanks! Looking forward to seeing what you get in the next month too. This day is definitely a perfect example that anything can happen out there. One of the reasons diving/fishing is so fun! My goal this year was to finish top 5, so I'm super stoked that I got lucky enough with some quality fish to have a chance to win.
Can't say I agree with the new "top 15 rule", because it effectively penalizes divers that put in the time to successfully hunt more species of fish, which is really the spirit of DOTY (at least it seems like that from my limited experience). But it is definitely working in my favor right now, so I'm not complaining :smt005
We went back and forth on the top 15/10 format vs all species counting for a long time before I finally gave in. :smt005
Top 15 was a good compromise IMO from the idea of top 10...top 15 still requires divers to push themselves but doesn't MAKE divers shoot a species they don't want to or can't...
Here is a snippet of my thoughts on the issue from a thread a few years ago:
I feel very strongly that all DOTY species should count towards total points. One of the COOLEST things about DOTY IMO is that it really challenges divers (in particular newer divers) to push themselves outside their comfort zone...and I think it would totally suck to have a diver get their first halibut, sheephead, verm, monkey, olive, grassy, scallop or whatever and not have it even make a difference in their score or show up on their list of fish...
Also, by only having a player's top ten species count you remove the incentive to travel and hunt species outside of your geographic comfort zone. For example a diver in mendo could focus on species that are relatively easy to find in their local reefs: Ling, Cab, Abalone, Scallop, Black, Verm, China, Grassy, Blue, Greenling. Could pretty easily get those 10 species in one weekend of diving and there would be zero incentive to look for a halibut or a sheephead or an olive or any other DOTY fish.
There are pros and cons to any rules to any comp...but I think top 15 is a LOT better than just top 10...
Maybe next year the rules will change again, who knows, but for this year you have been crushing it and I am stoked for you!
:smt001
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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Epic Day out there Matt......just because the sea lions are looking friendly doesn’t mean they aren’t around :smt044
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There are pros and cons to any rules to any comp...but I think top 15 is a LOT better than just top 10...
Maybe next year the rules will change again, who knows, but for this year you have been crushing it and I am stoked for you!
Thanks I agree that 15 is a lot better than 10! Thanks for posting the backstory on the rule change. I was curious about that.
Epic Day out there Matt......just because the sea lions are looking friendly doesn’t mean they aren’t around :smt044
Haha noted! That is a spooky pic...
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I just had a brilliant idea- add mola mola to the doty list and you'll crush it!!
(Just have to find someone to eat it!!)
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I just had a brilliant idea- add mola mola to the doty list and you'll crush it!!
(Just have to find someone to eat it!!)
Haha I don’t think I could bring myself to shoot one of those :smt005
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I just had a brilliant idea- add mola mola to the doty list and you'll crush it!!
(Just have to find someone to eat it!!)
Haha I don�t think I could bring myself to shoot one of those :smt005
I would have had a 100 pounder hanging off my kayak if was on the DOTY list, hahaha it was difficult for me to shoot a greenling and a perch let a alone a mola, they all taste like garbage compared to a fat ling or big scallop.
The 15 specie thing is still hard for me to get, the 4 hour drive south vs the 40 minute drive north makes me really unmotivated to go south and basically only have the chance to find a sheep. Gas isnt very cheep for my pickup. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171206/ece7ba351522c85f064adacabe772299.jpg)
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I just had a brilliant idea- add mola mola to the doty list and you'll crush it!!
(Just have to find someone to eat it!!)
Haha I don�t think I could bring myself to shoot one of those :smt005
I would have had a 100 pounder hanging off my kayak if was on the DOTY list, hahaha it was difficult for me to shoot a greenling and a perch let a alone a mola, they all taste like garbage compared to a fat ling or big scallop.
The 15 specie thing is still hard for me to get, the 4 hour drive south vs the 40 minute drive north makes me really unmotivated to go south and basically only have the chance to find a sheep. Gas isnt very cheep for my pickup. [/img]
I don't get why you think you need to drive south for a sheep...I bet you could have shot a butt and striper up there this summer if you put in the time...
Ling, Cab, Ab, Scallop, Black, Blue, Olive, Grassy, Kelpy, Copper, Monkey, Butt, Striper, Verm, Perch....use the perch for crab bait if you don't like eating them.
But, guys who live south of the GG drive up North to get abs...so...yeah.
Whatever, I'll let whoever takes over DOTY do whatever they want with the rules next year and into the future.
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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The 15 specie thing is still hard for me to get, the 4 hour drive south vs the 40 minute drive north makes me really unmotivated to go south and basically only have the chance to find a sheep. Gas isnt very cheep for my pickup.
I don't get why you think you need to drive south for a sheep...I bet you could have shot a butt and striper up there this summer if you put in the time...
Ling, Cab, Ab, Scallop, Black, Blue, Olive, Grassy, Kelpy, Copper, Monkey, Butt, Striper, Verm, Perch....use the perch for crab bait if you don't like eating them.
But, guys who live south of the GG drive up North to get abs...so...yeah.
Whatever, I'll let whoever takes over DOTY do whatever they want with the rules next year and into the future.
@BigJim You forgot about Gopher/B&Y/China in your list for fish to shoot up north. So really only necessary for Sonoma/Mendo divers to get EITHER a butt or a striper if the drive to Monterey is too far/too expensive.
@ryang85 I really think the geographic limitations go both ways. Based on my limited experience, I've noticed the following:
The only two species that are definitely limited geographically between Monterey and Sonoma/Mendo (in my experience) are sheephead and abalone. Sheephead are more common in Monterey, even though they are not common by any means, and are rare north of there. To balance this out, abs are only available to the north.
Then there are some species that are more common/easier to get depending on where you are:
Olives are available in Monterey and Sonoma but easier to get in Monterey. But again, to even that out, scallops in my experience are much easier to find in Mendocino/Sonoma than Monterey. I've limited on scallops in Mendo but never found more than one on a given Monterey dive. Also black rockfish and greenling are more common/bigger up north in my experience.
So basically, there are advantages to living in both areas. If the ab fishery gets closed next year, things may need to be reevaluated/tweaked, but hopefully that doesn't happen.
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All great points Matt!
Yep, forgot the gophers/chinas! :smt002
I've shot 4 butts south of the GG and 3 north of the GG since 2013, my 3 biggest so far are the ones I got up North...and I know guys that have shot Stripers and WSB north of the GG...
Anyway, there are plenty of comps that you can do in one day and that just require you to dive in one spot...DOTY is not set up to be one of those.
:smt001
:smt006
Sincerely,
Jim
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Sorry to jack your thread so much Matt...hope you don't mind this discussion on here. :smt008
Here's some more background of the 15 versus all species counting change that we put into effect this year...all species counting was even harder for guys that didn't want to drive south of the GG...
Here's the thread and I pulled out the pertinent part:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=75105.0
4. We want to mix it up a little for 2017.
Despite my stubbornness and desire to keep the game the same, we do think some changes will be good for DOTY and for the majority of people playing the game...
Over the years we have received all kinds of feedback from people...some of the feedback has been incorporated into DOTY and some has not...
We (myself and whoever else has been on the DOTY committee at the time) have made a point to make sure that we do NOT make changes based on feedback from people who seem to want to change DOTY to make it into a game they think they could do better at, a game that would be "better" for how they like to dive, where they like to dive, and what kinds of fish they like to target...
However, we get it that some people don't want to harvest certain species for a variety of reasons...and we don't want DOTY (or my stubbornness to change DOTY) to be the only reason that a person (or group of people) kills certain kinds of fish...
So...with all of the above said, we WILL be making the following changes for 2017 DOTY:
A. We will be adding Striped Bass taken from the Ocean as a species.
It became legal to spear Stripers year round in the Ocean (and in certain FW areas in certain months) in 2013.
Shooting Stripers in Freshwater has been VERY controversial, and while (as long as the various rules and regs are followed) it is totally legal we do not think DOTY should add them as a species while their take is so controversial.
Stripers from the Ocean are a much different story, and my first hand experience with surf casters and other angler groups (I have even been participating on the www.StripersOnline.com forum) has been overwhelmingly positive.
These are beautiful, delicious fish and can be taken by any diver willing to put in the time in the surf, and I have seen reports and pics of them being taken from SLO all the way up into Humboldt.
We are not 100% sure on the Points Per Inch (PPI) yet but will get it ironed out before the start of 2017.
AOTY has Stripers at 5.5 PPI, so the three below would be 236.5, 235.125 and 184.25...
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2310
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2316
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2317
These other ~24/25 inch fish would be worth about 132/137.5 points which seems about right for their modest size:
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2259
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2318
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/2338
We are looking forward to seeing future DOTY divers get involved in this fishery if they choose to. :smt001
B. We will be making DOTY a best of FIFTEEN species comp.
As stated above, some divers don't like shooting some types of fish for any number of reasons (they don't like eating that fish, they don't like taking that species of fish for moral/ethical reasons etc).
For the past 5 years all of the species in DOTY have counted towards a diver's total points, so it has kinda been like Pokémon...gotta get em all! :smt002 :smt005
While the Pokémon style has forced divers to dive up and down the coast, in various depths and areas etc it has had the effect of forcing anyone who wanted to be a serious DOTY competitor to take at least one of ALL possible species regardless of its size or if the diver really wanted to kill it.
However, we have resisted going to just having the top ten species count (like AOTY) because then it would potentially be possible for a diver to just harvest 10 relatively easily found species and place/win without pushing themselves to find and take some of the more "elusive species"...
For example, in 2012 fuzz took 12 species in a day out of SWS...one day of diving should not be all it takes to win a year long comp like DOTY:
http://doty.norcalkayakanglers.com/catches/84
With the addition of Striped Bass from the Ocean, there will now be 19 total possible DOTY species...by having the top 15 species count a diver who does not want to shoot a certain species (for whatever reason) will not have to, and will have the flexibility to shoot species they actually want to kill, BUT will still have to push themselves to dive different areas and explore to get 15 species.
Here are some possible combinations that we can think of with the new top 15 rule:
Shallow (less than 30 feet) Combo:
1. Cab
2. Greenling
3. Ling
4. Perch
5. Monkey
6. Olive
7. Grassy
8. Kelpy
9. Blue
10. Black
11. BNY
12. Ab
13. Scallop
14. Copper
15. Sheep/Butt/Striper Wildcard
NorCal (North of GG Bridge) Combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Greenling
4. Ling
5. Perch
6. Olive
7. Grassy
8. Kelpy
9. Blue
10. Black
11. BNY
12. Ab
13. Scallop
14. Butt
15. Copper/Monkey/Striper/WSB Wildcard
Elitist (No "trash fish") combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Ling
4. Butt
5. Olive
6. Grassy
7. Blue
8. Black
9. Copper
10. China
11. Ab
12. Scallop
13. Sheep
14. WSB
15. Striper
CenCal (south of GG Bridge) Combo:
1. Verm
2. Cab
3. Ling
4. Perch
5. Butt
6. Monkey
7. Sheep
8. Olive
9. Grassy
10. Kelpy
11. Blue
12. Black
13. Copper
14. BNY
15. Striper
Obviously there are a lot of different combo possibilities, and our hope is that divers will still be able to be competitive in DOTY, without having to kill species they are opposed to taking, but will still be required to push themselves to explore and dive outside of their personal comfort zone to take 15 species that are big enough to be competitive.
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The 15 specie thing is still hard for me to get, the 4 hour drive south vs the 40 minute drive north makes me really unmotivated to go south and basically only have the chance to find a sheep. Gas isnt very cheep for my pickup.
I don't get why you think you need to drive south for a sheep...I bet you could have shot a butt and striper up there this summer if you put in the time...
Ling, Cab, Ab, Scallop, Black, Blue, Olive, Grassy, Kelpy, Copper, Monkey, Butt, Striper, Verm, Perch....use the perch for crab bait if you don't like eating them.
But, guys who live south of the GG drive up North to get abs...so...yeah.
Whatever, I'll let whoever takes over DOTY do whatever they want with the rules next year and into the future.
@BigJim You forgot about Gopher/B&Y/China in your list for fish to shoot up north. So really only necessary for Sonoma/Mendo divers to get EITHER a butt or a striper if the drive to Monterey is too far/too expensive.
@ryang85 I really think the geographic limitations go both ways. Based on my limited experience, I've noticed the following:
The only two species that are definitely limited geographically between Monterey and Sonoma/Mendo (in my experience) are sheephead and abalone. Sheephead are more common in Monterey, even though they are not common by any means, and are rare north of there. To balance this out, abs are only available to the north.
Then there are some species that are more common/easier to get depending on where you are:
Olives are available in Monterey and Sonoma but easier to get in Monterey. But again, to even that out, scallops in my experience are much easier to find in Mendocino/Sonoma than Monterey. I've limited on scallops in Mendo but never found more than one on a given Monterey dive. Also black rockfish and greenling are more common/bigger up north in my experience.
So basically, there are advantages to living in both areas. If the ab fishery gets closed next year, things may need to be reevaluated/tweaked, but hopefully that doesn't happen.
The main issue is my halibut/striper/wsb spots are too far for my to paddle a kayak especially in a current. And i struck out on the bar this year for flatties so i need a sheep ( i also want to shoot one since ive never seen one before).
I understand the need for the compition to be challenging, im pretty comfortable in marin,sonoma and mendo with big scallops, abs,blacks and lings, but ive gone down to Monterey mulitple times and strugled terribly. Diving different spots and found nothing at all. As someome who primarily shoots fish for meat, its always been difficult for me to head south when i know i can pile up all fish i want to eat for the week without the travel. But if we reduced the species it would be only based on basicaly size and that gives the compition a different mind set than the idea of having a variety. I think 15 species is perfect, i just am super picky with what i eat so i except shooting a 150 point perch and greenling and search for a big ling or scallops.
I just need to get some motivation to head south and shoot a sheep and copper. Im 3 fish away and there are lots of 16 to 17 " olives up here i just need to shoot one and stop looking for a trophy.