NorCal Kayak Anglers

Kayak Zone => Kayaks => Ocean Kayaks => Topic started by: Hydrospider on June 25, 2016, 11:43:06 AM

Title: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 25, 2016, 11:43:06 AM
yes

wasn't pretty, but success on my first attempt.

(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/1Scupper%20pro%20roll%201_zps70ai4xhe.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/1Scupper%20pro%20roll%201_zps70ai4xhe.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-24%20at%207.34.43%20PM_zpsbsmidtzi.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-24%20at%207.34.43%20PM_zpsbsmidtzi.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/1%20Scupper%20pro%20roll%203_zpsqmdd09jr.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/1%20Scupper%20pro%20roll%203_zpsqmdd09jr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Tote on June 25, 2016, 02:02:58 PM
Thigh straps right?
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: krusty on June 25, 2016, 02:04:27 PM
Thigh straps right?

Is there a way to roll a sit on top without thigh straps?
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: pmmpete on June 25, 2016, 02:27:14 PM
Is there a way to roll a sit on top without thigh straps?
Sit-on-top kayaks can be rolled over upside down without thigh straps.  They can't be eskimo rolled back upright without the use of thigh straps.

Now that I've said that, somebody is going to post a video of themselves locking their legs around the sides of their upside-down sit-on-top kayak while they are underwater and rolling it upright.  It would be worth being proved wrong to see a stunt like that.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: NowhereMan on June 25, 2016, 09:12:00 PM
yes

wasn't pretty, but success on my first attempt.

Now that is cool.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 27, 2016, 09:15:38 AM
  Correct, I use thigh straps, but there is also a foot stirrup and lap belt combo.

Being strapped into this boat allows you to fully realize how quick this hull really is. wow

My 2nd roll was smoother and I was able to keep my visor on.


(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%201_zpslf8cjtxv.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%201_zpslf8cjtxv.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%202_zpsiqomo2an.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%202_zpsiqomo2an.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%203_zpsaa5jzy6j.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%203_zpsaa5jzy6j.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%204_zpsbupt0it7.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%204_zpsbupt0it7.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%205_zpsj9gubpnv.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/2%20scupper%20roll%205_zpsj9gubpnv.jpg.html)
(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af155/hydrospider/Roll%20Up/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-24%20at%207.38.19%20PM_zps9qbekglp.jpg) (http://s1003.photobucket.com/user/hydrospider/media/Roll%20Up/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-24%20at%207.38.19%20PM_zps9qbekglp.jpg.html)

Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 27, 2016, 05:40:08 PM
Strapped in shots from another cam angle.

Saving the video for another project.
Im either getting stronger or the scupper pro is easier to roll.
Going to try to roll the Tarpon 140 again soon.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 27, 2016, 05:42:30 PM
Now I'm considering...
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: ravensblack on June 27, 2016, 05:46:35 PM
RTM kept the scupper molds when they split with Ocean. Sure looks the same huh. Thanks for sharing the scupper project. I love those boats.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: pmmpete on June 27, 2016, 06:09:46 PM
I suspect that a Scupper Pro with thigh straps would be easier to roll than many other kayaks with thigh straps because it doesn't have a stiffened nylon or lawn chair style seat, which makes it possible to lay back on the rear deck of the Scupper Pro when rolling back up, if you like that style of roll.  In a kayak with a seat, you'd need to do more of a C-to-C roll.  And it would be real difficult to roll a sit-on-top kayak if the seat is at all elevated.

Is there a way to roll a sit on top without thigh straps?
Sit-on-top kayaks can be rolled over upside down without thigh straps.  They can't be eskimo rolled back upright without the use of thigh straps.

Now that I've said that, somebody is going to post a video of themselves locking their legs around the sides of their upside-down sit-on-top kayak while they are underwater and rolling it upright.  It would be worth being proved wrong to see a stunt like that.
I am amazed and disappointed that somebody hasn't already accepted my challenge and posted a video of themselves rolling a sit-on-top kayak back up without thigh straps.  It seems to me that you should be able to make a pretty vigorous hip snap and lay back on the back deck with your legs locked around the sides of a kayak.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Ariel Sea on June 27, 2016, 06:17:49 PM
I remember when my butt use to fit in a Scuppertwin hatch 18 years ago.  :smt005 :moon :moon :moon :moon :bootyshake: :(
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Weimarian on June 27, 2016, 07:11:20 PM
I still have a scupper twin hatch... I can't even sit in the thing... :smt044 Only 2 of my skinny little girls can :smt005 But what a hull! Fast and stable. Wish the ass depression was Xl.... :smt007
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Ariel Sea on June 27, 2016, 08:22:18 PM
I still have a scupper twin hatch... I can't even sit in the thing... :smt044 Only 2 of my skinny little girls can :smt005 But what a hull! Fast and stable. Wish the ass depression was Xl.... :smt007

I loved my Scupper Pro it still to this day one of my favorite kayaks I've ever owned. You are right it is fast and was great for surf launching.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 28, 2016, 11:56:48 AM
I suspect that a Scupper Pro with thigh straps would be easier to roll than many other kayaks with thigh straps because it doesn't have a stiffened nylon or lawn chair style seat, which makes it possible to lay back on the rear deck of the Scupper Pro when rolling back up, if you like that style of roll.  In a kayak with a seat, you'd need to do more of a C-to-C roll.  And it would be real difficult to roll a sit-on-top kayak if the seat is at all elevated.

Thank you for sharing your expertise. The C2C roll was the first roll that I learned in WW boats and I tried it with the SOTs with very little success. Have you rolled a SOT?  You may be better and stronger than I am but I find rolling a SOT a lot more challenging than rolling a SIK, even with the straps.
One thing is for certain, my brace is FAR more effective after working on my roll.


I am amazed and disappointed that somebody hasn't already accepted my challenge and posted a video of themselves rolling a sit-on-top kayak back up without thigh straps.  It seems to me that you should be able to make a pretty vigorous hip snap and lay back on the back deck with your legs locked around the sides of a kayak.
Im not surprised that someone hasn't accepted. Im sure it can and has been done. Im just not sure that I have the core strength to pull it off. Ive challenged myself to be able to roll a big fishing SOT eventually and to be able to roll a SOT without a paddle. Im not there yet but Im putting in the work.

Maybe a more reasonable challenge for the NCKA would be to just see who can roll a SOT and document.
Sure, the SOT makes the roll "unnecessary" but it is still a basic kayak skill and its the foundation of the brace, which is absolutely applicable.
There are pro staff and others here who talk the talk but I'd like to see if there are any "pros" or "OGs"
who really have the skills.  Its easy to pretend on the internet but not on the water.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: ravensblack on June 28, 2016, 12:20:29 PM
Cant roll. never could. never tried. I can roll over halfway though. That is documented. hehehe
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: pmmpete on June 29, 2016, 08:12:55 AM
I have 32 years of whitewater kayaking experience, so I know how to roll a sit-inside kayak. And I've set up both my 13' Trident and my 13' Revolution with thigh straps.  However, I've never tried rolling up one of my sit-on-top kayaks, and I'm sure it's a challenge, due to the width of most sit-on-top kayaks and the height of their seats.  It seems easier just to bail out, flip the kayak upright, and climb back on top.

I think that developing a solid low brace and high brace is real important both in sit-inside kayaking and in sit-on-top paddle kayaking.  It's one of the first things I teach beginning whitewater kayakers.  If you have a good brace, you are way less likely to need a roll, and way less likely to get dumped off a sit-on-top kayak.  Judging from the many entertaining videos available on the internet of kayak anglers getting trundled while going through surf, it appears that many kayak anglers have pretty rudimentary paddling skills.  See, for example, the video at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=13276.0 , where a kayaker who is paddling in towards a beach gets caught by a small wave, and instead of paddling and ruddering to surf the wave, or turning sideways and bracing into the pile, or back paddling to let the wave pass by, the paddler lets go of his paddle with one hand, and gets dumped right over.  I made some suggestions in that thread about how to learn a high and low brace at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=13276.msg145861#msg145861 .  And I explained my theory about why Mirage Drive kayaks frequently get dumped while going through surf at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=13276.msg178955#msg178955 .
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Baitman on June 29, 2016, 08:17:38 AM
Cant roll. never could. never tried. I can roll over halfway though. That is documented. hehehe
     You just need a coach...   Even an old dawg can learn new tricks !  :smt002
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on July 01, 2016, 12:08:57 PM
pmmpete,
 You have the equipment and apparently have the skill set. It would be great if the next time you have the prowler or revolution out, if you could give them a roll and share the technique that made you successful.
Please remember that documentation brings validity. Looking forward to your results.
I can really use the help

 Here is the alternative to thigh straps. The stirrups are on the boat that I need to have a solid roll with.
My time trying to roll the barges helps strengthen my skills on the "Strike".
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on August 15, 2016, 07:56:55 AM
pmmpete,
Did you try rolling your kayaks with leg straps yet?

Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 01, 2018, 09:37:05 AM
 Looks like the Swell watercraft Scupper is finally in production and may be available to test soon. Im interested in the boat and curious as to how difficult it will be for me to roll.
I decided not to purchase the RTM boat and hold out for the super scupper.
I hope its been worth the wait.






 
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Tote on June 01, 2018, 01:22:26 PM
Looking forward to seeing that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYOpD1muJwo
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 01, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Looking forward to seeing that video.



 Only IF I can roll it, but I do plan on documenting the attempt.
That short video is a version of the new scupper that I have not seen.
Thanks for adding it Tote.
Ive made the room on the rack and it's likely that Ill purchase after testing.
This was the boat that I was hoping for.
Title: Re: roll the scupper pro?
Post by: Hydrospider on June 03, 2018, 10:26:29 AM
After seeing the "upgrades" from Tote's post, I needed to delve a little deeper.  I was looking forward to the simple design of the early super scupper photos but it appears that the boat will have more than just naked plastic.  Im not excited about the adds but they are not deal breakers. I will be curious as to how much the final product will actually weigh.  My interest in this boat is focused on it being light and fast but still able to function as a fishing boat.

I reread this thread and noticed my taunt directed at the pros and site experts.

There are pro staff and others here who talk the talk but I'd like to see if there are any "pros" or "OGs"
who really have the skills.  Its easy to pretend on the internet but not on the water.

Nothing from the promos?   Dunning-Kruger effect here?    Maybe.

Found this nice resource that helped me see what Swell has added.