NorCal Kayak Anglers

Kayak Fishing Zone => Safety First => Topic started by: M.A.S.HAT on August 23, 2017, 11:30:29 PM

Title: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: M.A.S.HAT on August 23, 2017, 11:30:29 PM
After reading the "A sticky for ocean newbie questions?" thread, it seems like Ill need a wetsuit to go out.  I have not used a wetsuit so far and been fine.  Im wondering a wetsuit is a must have on the water, or more of a comfort preference.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: E Kayaker on August 23, 2017, 11:50:16 PM
A wetsuit is worn in case you fall off your kayak. It will give you extra time to self rescue or wait to be rescued. You can also wear a dry suit with insulating clothes under it. Dress for immersion.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: M.A.S.HAT on August 23, 2017, 11:54:45 PM
Will a 3mm wetsuit be sufficient?
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Sailfish on August 24, 2017, 12:18:42 AM
Will a 3mm wetsuit be sufficient?

Yes.  I used to wear the 3mm WS for kayak fishing before switching over to dry suit.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: greenthumbrian on August 24, 2017, 05:48:22 AM
I used a 7/9mm diving farmer john while I went out last time and I regretted it...Should have brought my 3 or 5mm suit - I was hot as hell, and tempted to take a dip just to cool off...

Had I fallen in, I may have been singing a different story though.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Tote on August 24, 2017, 05:50:42 AM
Just remember...EVERYONE swims at one time or another. Best to be prepared for it when it happens. And usually it happens without warning.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: greenthumbrian on August 24, 2017, 05:53:02 AM
Just remember...EVERYONE swims at one time or another. Best to be prepared for it when it happens. And usually it happens without warning.

Knowing myself, I'd be too focused on making sure I didn't lose any gear instead of trying to get back in the yak  :smt044
Title: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: AlexB on August 24, 2017, 06:56:25 AM
Like others said, you need to dress for immersion so you are prepared for the inevitable swim that will happen at some point.

There are basically three options.

1) Drysuit (plenty safe, most comfortable, also expensive). You also need to wear a layer of wool or synthetic insulation underneath the drysuit. (Best choice, in my opinion.)

2) 3 to 4mm wetsuits, especially "farmer john" style. You probably want a lightweight windbreaker or splash jacket to keep your arms and shoulders warm if it's cold or windy out.

3) Dry pants and dry jacket. Kinda like a drysuit, but in separate pieces. I don't see any distinct advantage to this setup for ocean kayak fishing, but it will work.

And don't forget to wear a PFD (not just bring it with you).


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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Dale L on August 24, 2017, 07:53:38 AM
Be sure to check out http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=38111.0

This is a subject that has been discussed at length several times, I'm not gonna suggest you use the search function, cause that might just be counter productive, or maybe you'l find one of those threads who knows.

But, ya gotta dress for immersion, it's a safety thing not a comfort thing, if it was a comfort thing then you could just pass on it.

As to what margin of safety you need is where the differences of opinion really come in.  Many members think that a 3mm suit is good, a few of us don't think that's enough. Some of the comments I've seen about going thicker tend to say you're crazy if you go thicker that 3, but those comments too are about comfort, not about safety. Thicker suits are hotter, no getting around that.

There have been instances (very few to be sure) where, for a variety of reasons, yakers have ended up being in the water for long periods of time, luckily they lived to report it here. A 3mm is great for a quick dip and remount, but would be dangerously inefficient (IMO) if you had to be in the water for an extended period.

I wear a 5mm FJ with a 2 mil front zip tight neck surf style wetsuit jacket. And I, have a new 7mm to replace the 5 but haven't used it yet, just got it back form having the relief zipper put in.

Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: LoletaEric on August 24, 2017, 07:55:06 AM
"Dress for immersion".

If you go the drysuit route, consider that it can be very difficult to keep water out of it if you go for a swim - this could make "insulating layers" wet and cold.

I wear my 7 mm FarmerJohn pulled down to my mid section, neoprene socks, rashguard and boardshorts, then my drysuit pulled down to my midsection with a paddle jacket holding the folded wetsuit and drysuit, then my PFD holding all that.  I wear big Boggs or Kamiks (boots) to finish off the ensemble.  If it gets really nasty out I can pull up the wetsuit and drysuit, and otherwise (99% of the time) I'm very comfortable while light and loose up top.

Don't forget your hat too.

The drysuit is probably the best thing I've ever worn to keep fish slime, blood and bait from saturating me more than it already does.  :smt001
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: crash on August 24, 2017, 07:59:40 AM
There's drysuits and there's what we call drysuits that are really semidrysuits.  Neoprene neck gaskets are just that much more comfortable than latex.  They will allow a little water in if its rough, raining, etc, so make sure you are wearing a synthetic or wool layer or two under it.  I've been extremely happy with my drysuit.  Except for that time I went to cast net for bait and forgot to close the relief zipper beforehand.  I was not happy then.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: yakyakyak on August 24, 2017, 08:14:00 AM

The main goal is to go back safely.  So whatever it takes for that, which includes not going or dumping everything to go back to shore.  That also means being able to get back on top of the yak after a dump.  So, dry suit and safety gears are a must. 

Don't die.


Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: crash on August 24, 2017, 08:16:09 AM
Have you watched the USCG cold water immersion video, also stickied at the top of this forum?
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: AlexB on August 24, 2017, 08:20:23 AM
I have the Kokotat "Angler" paddling suit, and I'm very happy with it. It does have the neoprene neck, but I have found it seals just fine. I've  body surfed in it a handful of times, and only a very small amount of water seeped in - just enough to dampen the collar of my thermal layer (Smartwool). Also, if I accidentally "dismount" from my kayak, my PFD will mostly keep the neck line above water.

DO NOT wear cotton under a drysuit. In fact, don't wear cotton during any activity that has the potential to leave you cold and wet. Stick with wool or high-quality synthetics.


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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: A.Julian on August 24, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
WADERS
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Der_Huntsman on August 24, 2017, 08:38:59 AM
As others have said, it's a must. Just this year someone out at Ocean Cove went for the inevitable swim and was so cold he had to be roped onto the deck of a boat. In and out of the water fairly quickly but he was hypothermic within 20 minutes.

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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: AlexB on August 24, 2017, 08:43:19 AM
If you go for a wetsuit, the thickness is a matter of preference as long as it's at least 3mm. I use a 4/3 or 5/4/3 suit when I surf, and it keeps me pretty comfortable for several hours as long as I keep moving and keep my blood flowing.


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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: M.A.S.HAT on August 24, 2017, 08:44:58 AM
Who do I see to install a relief zipper?
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: poulton on August 24, 2017, 09:13:47 AM
I wear a NeoSport pants that are 1.5 mm and a older Scuba pro top that has mesh sleeve but torso is neoprene. Yes they are warm water clothes.
Neo sport pants comes in sizes up to 3 xxL to that really help
I wear pants a size larger for comfort. Yes they stretch but ankle and waist are tight so if go in still protected.
Biggest question you have to ask your self is were are you paddling? Water temp?
Ocean plan 50 deg air temp 60. Delta 65-70 deg and 90+degress out aprox.
Also available are what is refered to as semi dry wet suits that will be more comfy than standard.

I think its all about odds. and experience, conditions, and equipment combination.
Is your kayak tippy? Then odds go up you will spill sooner. Some of the barges being sold as kayak for fisherman are very hard to tip.
Take what you have to a pool and see what it takes to spill. and also practice your self rescue
Dont wear waders. they fill with water and make self rescue VERY HARD

Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Dale L on August 24, 2017, 10:16:41 AM
Who do I see to install a relief zipper?

I used heatwave custom wetsuits in santa cruz.  I shipped it to them, 75$ total cost including shipping back to me. Not cheap but essential.

I've never been able to find anything thicker than a 3mm with a relief zipper off the rack.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: yakyakyak on August 24, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
Who do I see to install a relief zipper?

Get the right one and you don't have to worry about relief zipper.  Here is one that's a good deal:

https://www.rei.com/product/832802/nrs-30-farmer-john-wetsuit-mens?CAWELAID=120217890000807362&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=16033104040&CATCI=pla-287972715261&cm_mmc=PLA_Google|404_37157|8328020005|none|7e25061d-dfdf-4e85-bba1-7d52de10238c|pla-287972715261&lsft=cm_mmc:PLA_Google_LIA|404_37157|8328020005|none|7e25061d-dfdf-4e85-bba1-7d52de10238c|pla-287972715261&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8sPF27nw1QIVAwxpCh3TOwa1EAQYASABEgJTufD_BwE

Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Bushy on August 24, 2017, 11:56:13 AM
Like others said, you need to dress for immersion so you are prepared for the inevitable swim that will happen at some point.

PAY ATTENTION!

This is the straight scoop, ask any OG

Bushy
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: Bullet on August 27, 2017, 08:41:51 PM
Be sure to check out http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=38111.0

This is a subject that has been discussed at length several times, I'm not gonna suggest you use the search function, cause that might just be counter productive, or maybe you'l find one of those threads who knows.

But, ya gotta dress for immersion, it's a safety thing not a comfort thing, if it was a comfort thing then you could just pass on it.

As to what margin of safety you need is where the differences of opinion really come in.  Many members think that a 3mm suit is good, a few of us don't think that's enough. Some of the comments I've seen about going thicker tend to say you're crazy if you go thicker that 3, but those comments too are about comfort, not about safety. Thicker suits are hotter, no getting around that.

There have been instances (very few to be sure) where, for a variety of reasons, yakers have ended up being in the water for long periods of time, luckily they lived to report it here. A 3mm is great for a quick dip and remount, but would be dangerously inefficient (IMO) if you had to be in the water for an extended period.

I wear a 5mm FJ with a 2 mil front zip tight neck surf style wetsuit jacket. And I, have a new 7mm to replace the 5 but haven't used it yet, just got it back form having the relief zipper put in.
Where did you send it to het the zipper put in?

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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: FishingAddict on August 27, 2017, 08:56:05 PM
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=78462.0

Geez people use the search function.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: M.A.S.HAT on August 27, 2017, 11:05:59 PM
I've got a surf wetsuit that I'll don until I figure out what is the best set up for me. 

I have dumped out of my yak once already, but the cold wasn't really a problem until I was back on shore where I started to shiver pretty severely.  Lost one of my fish, and a Spyderco PM2 that my brother gave me.  All and all a bummer outing.   


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Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: FishingAddict on August 28, 2017, 10:49:45 AM
Sometimes I get pretty cold back on shore (or maybe all the time on the water just finally catches up to me) so I try to have a warm dry set of clothes on the front seat of the truck and get changed out right away.

I suggest you invest in a drysuit like the Kokatat Angler Drysuit.  Off course layer accordingly inside.  They are pricey but worth the money for the comfort you get.  I've never worn my 3 mil. FJ wetsuit after owning a drysuit.
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: solsrf1 on August 28, 2017, 11:59:08 AM
Who do I see to install a relief zipper?
Any wetsuit repair business will be able to help out. I had my installed at a place called Blown Out wetsuit repair in Santa Cruz. She is a nice lady who has been doing wetsuit repair there for decades. I think she charged me around 25.00. What size are you, what's your height and weight? I am just getting ready to post my NRS farmer john 3mm with relief zipper. It does not fit me anymore, otherwise I would keep it. Send me a PM-(personal message) on this site. Mike
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: solsrf1 on August 28, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
My two cents-
I have used a full 3/2mm surfing wetsuit for kayak fishing in my early days and hated it. I got too hot, sweaty and almost impossible to pull down on the kayak, so I had to hang over the side and pee inside. I like using a 3mm farmer john with a two way zipper, the zipper zips from top down and bottom up, so you can pee. I add a synthetic top with built-in pullover hood that I wear on the outside for more comfort. I know some guys that wear them on the inside too, that's fine, but again I get too hot, so for me I choose on the outside. I also use 4-5mm neoprene booties with a fairly rigid sole for peddling the Hobie. I carry a pullover paddle jacket with hood in case I need to adjust if it gets too cold or windy. Over decades of surfing and paddling the California coast, think that the 3mm is sufficient for limited immersion time. Many have commented that they like 4,5, and 7mm, and I agree that this is the safer way to go for extended time in the water, especially further north, but with much less comfort when paddling distances. I added in the Kokatat semi drysuit into the mix with the neoprene neck and gasketed wrists. I wear synthetic tops, bottoms, and socks with this too wick sweat and keep me as cool as possible since this suit is a baker for me. Unless its cold and nasty out, I find this suit most useful for early season, late season, rainy days, and when it's sporty out there, otherwise it's too hot for me on sunny and mild days. If I were going to do it over again, I would get the new Kokatat hybrid that zips apart at the waist so that you can adjust to the conditions far more easily. Obviously, you should have a hat, sunblock, water, snacks, floating radio, pfd-adjusted correctly, compass, paddle leash, imo-a good knife, and know how to self-rescue should you fall out. Like most of us, continue to do your homework and go out with experienced people so that you can learn from them! Good luck!
Title: Re: To wetsuit or, not to wetsuit?
Post by: NowhereMan on August 28, 2017, 04:57:40 PM
My two cents-
....

+100

Only thing I can add is that I've got the Kokatat Surge semi-drysuit (zips apart in the middle) and love it! The ambient temp has to get up to about 70 with little or no breeze and the sun beating down before it starts to get too warm. Pricey, but very nice...