Ab diving death at Van Damme

What he said . . . whatever it is he said. 

If you dig it, do it. You're not that old. If diving is just "meh" to you, stick to what you do well already.

yeah.. i'm just gonna take it slow and stick to rock picking for now. the scary part is that you can do the same routine every dive, prepare the same and still risk that chance of having a blackout. that to me is scary.

my parents are always telling me to be very careful because they know and heard of people drowning. I told them i don't dive and just rock picking. I know a few of you said its better to rip doing something you love but isn't family more important?

Bro if uz asian, parents aint never abate nagging no mttr how delishus Abz in oyster soss tays.  my fokes think i b crayz but they still eat the hell outta a lingcod i bring em.  they aint out OTW so only imagine but can't really preciate the risk, only u kan.  mitigate it to reasonable max AND bring home that supper - best way to honor the family

but fosho, insure you git hom after every outing, buddy up, and stay fit - itll send the right messg to ur fokes

Hey homie, if you're going to write more than a sentence, please consider using English, or even legal-eze.  Thank you

I've been diving abalone for 40 years and in my youth scared some of my dive buddy's.
I don't dive as deep or stay down as long as I once did. But with the common sense that God has blessed me with I'm gonna be getting in the water with my grandson when he's ready even into my 70's as long as my health is good.
And remember there's always that one day!

All men die, but not all men live!

RIP

4est

I've been diving abalone for 40 years and in my youth scared some of my dive buddy's.
I don't dive as deep or stay down as long as I once did. But with the common sense that God has blessed me with I'm gonna be getting in the water with my grandson when he's ready even into my 70's as long as my health is good.
And remember there's always that one day!

All men die, but not all men live!

RIP

4est

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden? or you feel cold?  the guy came up for air and started yelling for help so i assume that isn't a blackout but something else?

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden?

Good question, here is a great informational piece by Terry Maas:
http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden?

Good question, here is a great informational piece by Terry Maas:
http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

Thank you for the link. very helpful and kinda interesting article. I came upon this paragraph.

"The blackout occurs quickly, insidiously and without warning. Mercifully, the victims of this condition die without any idea of their impending death. Beginning breath-hold divers, because of their lack of adaptation, are not generally subject to this condition. It is the intermediate diver who is most at risk. He is in an accelerated phase of training, and his physical and mental adaptations allow him to dive deeper and longer with each new diing day sometimes too deep or too long. Advanced divers are not immune."

to me it says beginners should have no blackout issues? and what is consider beginners? someone who only dive 10ft all the time?
but anyway, it goes on to say when he made it to the surface he was seeing stars. i see stars sometimes when i lift heavy object. oxygen deprived?

my parents are always telling me to be very careful because they know and heard of people drowning. I told them i don't dive and just rock picking. I know a few of you said its better to rip doing something you love but isn't family more important?

Bro if uz asian, parents aint never abate nagging no mttr how delishus Abz in oyster soss tays.  my fokes think i b crayz but they still eat the hell outta a lingcod i bring em.  they aint out OTW so only imagine but can't really preciate the risk, only u kan.  mitigate it to reasonable max AND bring home that supper - best way to honor the family

but fosho, insure you git hom after every outing, buddy up, and stay fit - itll send the right messg to ur fokes

Hey homie, if you're going to write more than a sentence, please consider using English, or even legal-eze.  Thank you

Uh, we have very few policies on NCKA.  #1 is no attacking other members on the board via racism etc.

If I read your post correctly, you are insinuating my brother from another mother might be a lawyer.  That is really pretty insulting. You are treading on thin ice ice baby.

Bouché

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden?

Good question, here is a great informational piece by Terry Maas:
http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

Thank you for the link. very helpful and kinda interesting article. I came upon this paragraph.

"The blackout occurs quickly, insidiously and without warning. Mercifully, the victims of this condition die without any idea of their impending death. Beginning breath-hold divers, because of their lack of adaptation, are not generally subject to this condition. It is the intermediate diver who is most at risk. He is in an accelerated phase of training, and his physical and mental adaptations allow him to dive deeper and longer with each new diing day sometimes too deep or too long. Advanced divers are not immune."

to me it says beginners should have no blackout issues? and what is consider beginners? someone who only dive 10ft all the time?
but anyway, it goes on to say when he made it to the surface he was seeing stars. i see stars sometimes when i lift heavy object. oxygen deprived?

Sad news no matter the reason. 

No one can guarantee you can't black out if you are holding your breath underwater.  Everyone's body's act differently based on your fitness, your health, your equipment and how much stress your body is in.  But when I first started I don't believe I was ever staying down long enough to feel contractions and or have my body think it was being deprived of oxygen and shut down body functions.  So an increased risk for intermediate divers does make sense.

The news report says he was yelling for help before sinking.  Not trying to guess on what happened but if you are conscious and not being pulled under by something you should be floating.  And if you drop your weight belt you should definitely be floating and not sinking. 

I know a couple guys on this site have Freedive recovery vests that were developed to inflate based on settings that would be out of the normal for how you dive.  So if you come back up after a dive and within the normal time a blackout occurs you sink back down it will inflate and bring you back to the surface.  Sounds like a great idea for those who sometimes dive solo (yes I am guilty) but still a plus for those with buddies as it would help hold their head out of the water.  Apparently they are still a bit expensive and I would like to hear more from divers who have used one for a large number of dives vs just a couple test dives.  I am looking at it as a possible addition in the future as a shark shield is now a permanent dive item.  And as most things the more that buy the better chance of bringing the price down to a more affordable price.

The author of the article I posted the link to, Terry Maas is a record holding free dive spearfisher and developer of the Freediver Recovery Vest (FRV), if interested in that product, it can be found at: http://divewise.org/education/freediver-recovery-vest-2/

Joe,

As previously discussed you should consider taking a class to better inform yourself.
Here is a link for an upcoming class.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=72952.0

I agree that intermediate divers are probably more at risk primarily since they are probably in the water more often than beginning divers.

Beginning ab divers/rock pickers are usually in and out of the water as soon as they limit out. Whereas an intermediate diver can spend 7-8 hours or more in the water pushing their boundaries.

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden?

Good question, here is a great informational piece by Terry Maas:
http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

Thank you for the link. very helpful and kinda interesting article. I came upon this paragraph.

"The blackout occurs quickly, insidiously and without warning. Mercifully, the victims of this condition die without any idea of their impending death. Beginning breath-hold divers, because of their lack of adaptation, are not generally subject to this condition. It is the intermediate diver who is most at risk. He is in an accelerated phase of training, and his physical and mental adaptations allow him to dive deeper and longer with each new diing day sometimes too deep or too long. Advanced divers are not immune."

to me it says beginners should have no blackout issues? and what is consider beginners? someone who only dive 10ft all the time?
but anyway, it goes on to say when he made it to the surface he was seeing stars. i see stars sometimes when i lift heavy object. oxygen deprived?

Pompano, Terry Maas lost his son to blackout, which is why he developed the FRV. As to what continues a beginner or who is at risk, I'll try to make this a little less mysterious. Shallow water blackout is not a normal occurrence but it can happen to anyone. It is caused by hypoxia (low oxygen) or hypocapnia (high co2). Either way it typically occurs when you hold your breath too long, or expend too much energy during a breath hold. Beginning divers rarely have the comfort level to push their breath hold dives beyond a safe time. Those who are diving longer and deeper learn to hold their breath to the point (or beyond) where they have contractions created by the body's urge to breathe. These people also build up a tolerance to low O2 and high CO2. This compounds the danger of SWB.

Learning to dive from a competent person, adhering to your body's comfort level and not pushing your limits, using good surface breathing procedure, staying relaxed and working slowly and methodically under water and using a test and breathing surface interval twice as long as your dive time will almost eliminate the chance of SWB.  New divers should always have a partner.

When the time comes that you want to extend your dive times and depths beyond 25 feet or so, a Freediving class will train you in physiology, technique and safety.

Joe,

As previously discussed you should consider taking a class to better inform yourself.
Here is a link for an upcoming class.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=72952.0

I agree that intermediate divers are probably more at risk primarily since they are probably in the water more often than beginning divers.

Beginning ab divers/rock pickers are usually in and out of the water as soon as they limit out. Whereas an intermediate diver can spend 7-8 hours or more in the water pushing their boundaries.

Antonio,

I agree. Eventually if I am still interested in the sport I must and will take the lessons. I think for now i will just stick to rock picking to get more comfortable in the water. Just like kayaking in the deep blue, i started slow but I am more comfortable now because i have over a year under my belt so perhaps next season i should be more comfortable in holding my breath in 10ft and should be able to take lessons.

This incident (topic) happened on the 7th which was a minus tide if i remember correctly because I took the 8th off (better minus tide)to Mendo Bay. Had I known about this, likely would not have gone but luckily everything was fine. i tried to dive 5-8 ft but wasn't too comfortable as my buddy was not near me and he too was also a newbie and he would not dive. we were resort to rock picking at he end which was fine by me as i get more comfortable in the water.

That day was my first ever abalone picking/attempted dive and the video clearly shows it. very noobish one but it will get better as i get more comfortable. i tried to save a couple abalone i saw just lying on the bottom bellow up in maybe 8 ft but unsuccessful tries after gulping water through my snorkel a couple times. not sure if the group before us toss it back or not but i feel bad not getting to it. i'm always a slow learner so it will take time for me.

Is there a warning sign that a blackout is about to occur, like say you feel numb all of a sudden?

Good question, here is a great informational piece by Terry Maas:
http://www.freedive.net/chapters/SWB3.html

Thank you for the link. very helpful and kinda interesting article. I came upon this paragraph.

"The blackout occurs quickly, insidiously and without warning. Mercifully, the victims of this condition die without any idea of their impending death. Beginning breath-hold divers, because of their lack of adaptation, are not generally subject to this condition. It is the intermediate diver who is most at risk. He is in an accelerated phase of training, and his physical and mental adaptations allow him to dive deeper and longer with each new diing day sometimes too deep or too long. Advanced divers are not immune."

to me it says beginners should have no blackout issues? and what is consider beginners? someone who only dive 10ft all the time?
but anyway, it goes on to say when he made it to the surface he was seeing stars. i see stars sometimes when i lift heavy object. oxygen deprived?

Pompano, Terry Maas lost his son to blackout, which is why he developed the FRV. As to what continues a beginner or who is at risk, I'll try to make this a little less mysterious. Shallow water blackout is not a normal occurrence but it can happen to anyone. It is caused by hypoxia (low oxygen) or hypocapnia (high co2). Either way it typically occurs when you hold your breath too long, or expend too much energy during a breath hold. Beginning divers rarely have the comfort level to push their breath hold dives beyond a safe time. Those who are diving longer and deeper learn to hold their breath to the point (or beyond) where they have contractions created by the body's urge to breathe. These people also build up a tolerance to low O2 and high CO2. This compounds the danger of SWB.

Learning to dive from a competent person, adhering to your body's comfort level and not pushing your limits, using good surface breathing procedure, staying relaxed and working slowly and methodically under water and using a test and breathing surface interval twice as long as your dive time will almost eliminate the chance of SWB.  New divers should always have a partner.

When the time comes that you want to extend your dive times and depths beyond 25 feet or so, a Freediving class will train you in physiology, technique and safety.

Thank you for more in depth explanation.