NorCal Kayak Anglers

Kayak Zone => Kayaks => Other Kayaks => Topic started by: SBD on July 31, 2006, 06:37:21 AM

Title: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on July 31, 2006, 06:37:21 AM
Put a few miles on the Dorado last night cruising Lake Mendo.  Overall, this thing is a DREAM to paddle, unlike any SOT I have ever tried.  Can't wait to get it in the salt, which will be the real test....the break down:

At 15.75 long and 24.8 wide, this is a long and relatively slender kayak, with graceful traditional sea kayak lines...very lovely to look at.  :smt007  Having tried several other SOT's of similar dimension, I was expecting it to paddle something like a T-160 and/or a Cobra Expedition.  It is like neither by a large margin, but first a few pics of the yak and the layout.

Side view...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6687&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

The inside of the fish box is simply enormous.  If you fill this thing, youv'e had a HELL of a day!  I'll have to try it out but a grumpy ling, or a 30 pound salmon should have no trouble sliding down the shute.  The end of the door is right in your lap, so access is a breeze.   The hatch construction is refreshingly SIMPLE.  A thin, hinged glass lid that with generous overlap and a quality rubber seal.  Attention yak MFGs...It doesn't need to be an trickier than this!!!

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6690&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)
 
Since no fish were in the plans I put my tackle box, slippas, and t-shirt in the shute for safe keeping while I paddled.  This gives you an idea of the scale...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6693&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

The fish chute leads up to a much larger fish box.  The fish box is the area under the blue "cover"  The cover is permantly bonded to the hull.  The entire inside of the fish box has a smooth gelcoat finish so keeping it clean should be relatively ez.  The round hatch aids clean-up and fish retrieval.  The rudder pedals are not like any other SOT I have seen.  Again, simple but robust. (are your detecting a theme here :smt003).  The heavy-duty nylon pedals slide on a billet track.  Controls adjust via nylon webbing...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6696&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

The back of the boat is just as elegantly simple.  A shallow tankwell is "scuppered" using a pair of notches out to the side.  There is a small compartment with a hatch behind the seat, and then a larger storage area behind that.  There is a bulkhead between each area.  The rudder is also simple, but robust.  Dacron lines are used for the controls, no cables...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6699&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

Once I was done gawking at the layout I got in...WAY in.  This was intially the most stunning part of the test padlle.  When you go to drop your a$$ into the seat it just keeps going...it felt like I was falling through the yak.  The seat is LOW.  After paddling our boats it felt like the water line was at my armpits...hmmm.  After getting snuggled in however, it became apparent that once again, somebody at Kaskazi knew what they were doing.  The sculpted cockpit is snug, but very comfy.  The seat pan is so deep, no additional seat is needed.  I was really concened about the footwells, but they were fantastic.  Super narrow by our standard, but just the right shape.  Normally a cockpit this cozy has some blasted protuberance right where you don't want it making some part of something go numb, but none of that here.  Cool.   :smt004

The hatch and bow are almost the same level which makes setting a rod down up front very handy.  There is a small deck loop up front that you can slide the rod tip under to keep it from sliding around.  If you add a bungee near the rod buttes you could easily secure rods in this fashion for a surf launch/landing.  Your gear might get wet, but you'll still own it!

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6702&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

Once under way is where my new love affair began.  First off, I was waiting to feel the twitchyness of something like the Expedition...not there.  Believe it or ot this beotch is stable as all get out...I'm not kidding. Way more stable than an Expedition or a T-160.   It may be a bit much for a total newb, but anyone with reasonable water time will feel fine right away.  I was stunned.   :smt007 I farted around for a moment trying the rudder etc.  Paddling was ez and efficient, the rudder turns it on a dime.

Then I put the whip to it.  HOLY CRAP BATMAN this thing moves.   Water was flying past the gunnels and their wasn't a lick of sound from the bow or STERN...just fluid movement.   :smt007 :smt007 Then I put the rudder up and it was even faster. :smt007 :smt007 :smt007.  Hung out a brace and leaned it over and it carved a sweet ass turn in nothing flat...oh my...me likey alot.  It did however become obvious that the low seat height will require a much shorter paddle for the right geometry.  I adjusted mine down to 230 and it was still too long.

Paddled a few miles in search of evening boils, and none were found.  Great nature show however.  Saw a nice family of otters and a bunch of deer.

Mrs Otter with two pups...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6705&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

Deer family...

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6708&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=cd5a9a70bad611933ab3630312ac83e4)

I got into some small chop on the paddle back and the performance remained impressive.  Quiet and efficinet.  Looking forward to getting this thing in the salt.  The wetness factor, since it is completely undrained, remains untested.  Also concerned about the durability and thrash-ablity.  I'll keep you posted, as I plan on getting this in big blue ASAP, but so far I love this thing!!!! 

 

Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: MolBasser on July 31, 2006, 06:52:21 AM
Thanks for the post.

How is the fishability with you sitting so low to the waterline?

How does one get water out when you take a wave?

MolBasser
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on July 31, 2006, 09:15:01 AM
Mol:

Castability/fishability are fine...didn't really notice a difference.  Your not so low it affects fishing, but you are significantly lower than other yaks.

As to bailing, not really sure...still untried.  While it sounds silly, there isn't a whole lot of room for water once your in.  You cant really see it in the pics but the cockpit is VERY contoured, which leaves very little room for anything other than you, including water.  Major excess goes out the notches by the side handles.  I see this boat as being super capable in the surf, and don't invision it taking on that much, if any water on a reasonable day.

The folks I know on the east coast that have these simply keep a yak sponge handy to bail out any lingering water that is annoying.  Like I said, I'll let you know about the reality of it all once its gotten tested in the salt.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: MolBasser on July 31, 2006, 09:19:06 AM
Right on.

Please bring one to mendo for us to play with if you can.

MolBasser
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on July 31, 2006, 09:39:04 AM
We will definitely have both at Mendo.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: mooch on July 31, 2006, 11:40:48 AM
THanks for the insight Sean  :smt007
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: ChuckE on July 31, 2006, 01:13:43 PM
Excellent report.
Given identical design and dimensions... are glass boats inherently faster than plastic ones?
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: KayakBuilder on July 31, 2006, 01:36:27 PM
Minimize the landing speed in the surfzone because their design has minimal rocker and will broach easily. Test it w/o rods & gear until you get the feel. The lack of rocker is the biggest contributor to speed, then rigidity of glass, then the smooth finish is the imperceptible last fraction of a second advantage over plastic.
How is the comfort sitting perpendicular?
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on July 31, 2006, 02:25:26 PM
Quote
are glass boats inherently faster than plastic ones

Seen lots of debate about this but I feel the difference would be small, if not miniscule.  What you do get is a much more rigid, and responsive feel.  The hull feels zippy and much more rigid in wind chop than a plastic yak.  With a boat this light in plastic you can squish the hull with your hands ...not nearly as flexy on this boat.  There was a gaping hole in the bow from a fork lift and it took everything I had to deflect it about 3/16 of an inch to line everything back up.  I could have EASiLY deflected unsupported plastic that much. 

Quote
Minimize the landing speed in the surfzone because their design has minimal rocker and will broach easily. Test it w/o rods & gear until you get the feel. The lack of rocker is the biggest contributor to speed, then rigidity of glass

I understand what your saying, but it doesn't look all that flat to me...about the same as a P-15.  There is also a generous amont of volume in the front of the hull.  However, I'll take your advice and play in the surf stripped before getting silly.

Quote
How is the comfort sitting perpendicular?

This aint' happening.  While you can dangle your feet outside the hull, sidesaddle is not possible with the deep seat.  You can however scoot back onto the rear deck/day hatch for a change of position.  This is better than it sounds, but no substitute for side saddle.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: KayakBuilder on July 31, 2006, 02:54:20 PM
As part of your next report, please include a pic of the underside for a view of the keel line.
Thanks for the report!
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Pelican on October 05, 2006, 10:37:06 AM
Hey Sean - Any up=date on the beautiful Kazkazi? Have you had it in the salt yet? Tom
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: MolBasser on October 05, 2006, 05:30:25 PM
I found the cockpit to be overly cramped.  I was annoyed by the fact that my calves were "pinched" by the hull and that I had skin in constant contact with the fiberglass.

That said, the boat is ripping fast and feels sturdy.  I don't think it would take the abuse that plastic boats take though.

The seat was way more comfortable than I thought it would be.

Bottom line, I wouldn't buy one.

MolBasser
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 05, 2006, 08:54:10 PM
Lets see...it is tight, or better described as snug.  This is intentional as this yak is un-drained.  The idea is for the paddler to displace water when it gets wet decked.  Unlike most SOTs the cockpit is available in different sizes to accomplish this.  I ordered what I guesses would fit me and it fits just fine.  It is more comfortable than I imagined. 

That said, if you're a size 10 in a size 9 Dorado its not at all pleasant.  Our Kaskazi Pelican has the smaller cockpit and its brutal on me and heaven for Leah and Jelly.

I have had it in the salt a number of times now.  Basically, it gets swamped in a surf launch.  Once outside you have to stop and bail.  Once you do so you'll realize it was worth your time.  Once outside the surf launch it is in another class compared to any plastic SOT.  It is however, narrow etc., and not a good call for the newb.   

The layout is weird, but in a good way.  I didn't like it the first few times, but now i have it set up for my needs, and I now think it is the smartest layout ever, but it requires a different approach, a more minimal, zen-sh approach.  If that appeals to you, then you will love it.  If you have the need to bring it ALL, this boat will be hell.

The glass is certainly more fragile, but easier to repair as well.  While you can't drag this yak around by the hair, it is light enough that you can just shoulder it with relative ease.

So in the end it a diffrerent approach for a different audience, but the Dodo audience definitely gets the best performing boat.

(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=81&g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7104&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=bc056da3ae055133acc499bc07dc0f20)
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: MolBasser on October 05, 2006, 11:07:09 PM
It is a fine boat, I just wouldn't want one.  I like to bring more crap with me than other people do, and I just couldn't get over the narrow leg wells. 

It was just me.  Others may not have a problem with it.

I definately likeed how it was stiffer than plastic boats and it was certainly faster than any SOT out there that I have paddled.

The tank well didn't impress me either, but like I said, I tend to carry more stuff than other fishers and like Scwafish says, this is a more minimalist boat.

It goes to show that testing lots of kayaks to find the one that works for you is the way to go.

MolBasser
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: ChuckE on October 06, 2006, 06:22:38 AM
Quote
I tend to carry more stuff than other fishers
Hey Mol... yes... you do!  :laughing7:
For me, two rods is the most I'll ever carry.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: polepole on October 06, 2006, 07:59:01 AM
I'm with Mol on this one.

PROS
Great hull.
Fast Boat.
Nice stability.  No really defined primary and secondary stability, nice and smooth across the range.

CONS
The cockpit and storage are not to my tastes.
I too had the pinching calves problem.
The seat hurt my back.  The seat is very low in the yak (which is great for stability) but the seat back area is at an odd angle for me.
The cutouts along the rail on either side of seat area let water in when I was rocking back and forth and I wasn't rocking that hard.
Rear tank well is shallow.

There will be people for whom this is a great boat.  I'm not one of them.

-Allen
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 06, 2006, 09:14:45 PM
Like I said, not for every one, but I will continue to love this yak.  I'll order the next one to fit those with Conan calves :smt027

A few clarifications:

Quote
The cutouts along the rail on either side of seat area let water in

Not only do they let water in, they let it out.  The cut outs reduce the amount of residual water post-surf launch by many gallons, while ensuring that the fish box doesn't flood.  The next update will have no cutouts and a higher fishbox, and venturi scuppers.  I honestly think this is going the wrong way, but oh well.

Quote
Rear tank well is shallow.

Indeed.  However it is made to be used in conjunction with a custom crate that comes with it, I just haven't found a need to have it...so it is holding towels in the shop, which it does with EASE  :smt003. 
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 16, 2006, 12:58:09 PM
I am interested in this trend towards more efficient sea kayaks that are better outfitted for the serious fishing paddler.
I am sorry I missed the chance to paddle the Dorado at Mendo. I wish KasKazi had a dealr in Nor Cal so I could try one for a while.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 16, 2006, 04:44:44 PM
Thats going to be me hopefully, I am now accepting orders, demos are free.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on October 17, 2006, 12:25:50 PM
Hey Scwafish,

The Dorado sounds SWEET!!  What's the lead time like?  Any pricing info yet?

Thanks for the great write-up.

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 17, 2006, 02:10:00 PM
Sean,
Let me know if a Dorado finds its way down to the Bay Area. Going to test paddle a Macski as well and would really like to compare.
The Macski has some interesting innovations like the clear plastic box top one can put the sonar and GPS under--safe and dry yet easily visible to the paddler.
But it doesn't have a rear tank well whcih I am not sure about. I need to try out both.

As for the critiques on storage space, I like a minimalist design that forces one to keep it simple--I climbed in that 'light is right' alpine style as well. Yvon Chouinard (famous alpine climber and founder of Balck Diamnd Equipment and Patagonia Clothing) made a sage observation about lightness 30 years ago when
he said something along these lines: "many climbers add a lot of gear for safety but it slows them down so much, they need for it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Weather, ice falls, time in the chutes exposed to ice and rockfall catch up to you. If you climb light, speed will often keep you out of trouble."

I beleive that true in the surf zone and running from bad conditions or boomers in the ocean as well.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 17, 2006, 08:17:12 PM
Marmot:

My Dodo will be making the rounds all winter...feel free to steal it for a cruise.

Backslider:

The Dodo in glass is going to be around $1800, and a bit over 2K in epoxy.  The wait is about 8-10 weeks once I have assembled enough orders.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: ScottThornley on October 17, 2006, 08:41:35 PM
I think that my mountain background is a prime reason that I'm a firm believer in the adage "Speed is safety". I got totally hosed one mid-October night, having to bivuac at around 12,500' after summiting North Palisade. I went light, and got my partner to agree to "go light" as well. Unfortunately, his definition of light was to leave the kitchen sink back at base camp, but bring practically everything else. He was much slower on the descent than I was. We lost daylight about an hour and a half away from base camp, back before decent headlamps were available. So we'd crash until I got really freekin cold. Then we'd pick our way along the traverse with our pathetic lamps until I warmed up. Then bivy again. I did get to sleep on the rope though. It was a Looonnngg night. Partner had plenty of insulation layers. I had mid-weight synthetic underwear and waterproof/breathable shells. Ever since then, I'm always in a hurry...

Scott
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 18, 2006, 05:58:58 AM
Nxst time were drinking beer all tell you a story about an old friend who went too light, epic hike, humiliating recovery!
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: polepole on October 18, 2006, 07:30:23 AM
I think that my mountain background is a prime reason that I'm a firm believer in the adage "Speed is safety". I got totally hosed one mid-October night, having to bivuac at around 12,500' after summiting North Palisade. I went light, and got my partner to agree to "go light" as well. Unfortunately, his definition of light was to leave the kitchen sink back at base camp, but bring practically everything else.

Well then,therein lies the problem.  You and your partner were totally out of sync.  It had nothing to do with speed being safety, because the speed of your partner was underestimated.  Safety is knowing your limits for the circumstance presented, whether you're going light or going heavy.

-Allen
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 18, 2006, 08:52:53 AM
Quote
Well then,therein lies the problem.  You and your partner were totally out of sync.  It had nothing to do with speed being safety,
But it does I think. If they both were over loaded, they were still exposed to dangers bivying that they could have avoided--they would have both been warm but no safer, In more extreme environments, they could have been caught by a thunderstorm or snow storm with that delay. Heck OCtober in the Sierra can dump on you. Or subjected to ice and rockfall. one and half hours from camp on North Pal, assuming they camped at Sam Mack Meadow, means they were on 5.4 or greater vertical rock and above the bergschrund of the glacier with high exposure.

Quote from: polepole
Safety is knowing your limits for the circumstance presented, whether you're going light or going heavy.

True. But we were getting to another aspect of speed. Often speed means you never get into the situation where you need all that equipment. Of course the speed is safety method requries you balance you equpment and skill to the measure of risk you are willing to bear--but that's true of all climbing styles.

Speed keeps your exposure time in the danger zones (couloirs, bergschrunds, etc.) as short as possible and also means that when you decide to retreat you can do it fast. Climbers who carry too much often get into the couloirs late and don't get out after sunrise and so are exposed to rockfall and ice fall the speed climbers never see. they also tire themselves and their retreats through danger are slower because of their state and extra load. That's what Yvon Chouinard was getting at and what I am seeign as a parallel with kayaks.

More efficient and fast boats get us out and in faster, let us retreat faster, and tire us less in wind and on long paddles meaning we have a reserve of strength we otherwise might not if conditions deteriorate. I am not talking about ditching the safety equipment, I am talking about hull efficiency and conservation of energy and well as significantly faster water speed with no extra cost in energy output.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: polepole on October 18, 2006, 09:15:51 AM
This discussion can go circular in a hurry.  Speed, or lack thereof, has its time and place.  Speed is relative.  I know some people here that can paddle a Cobra FND faster than some people here can paddle a P15.  And some people here don't at all look comfortable on a P15, spending much of their energy trying to balance.  If they rode a FND, they might be a lot more comfortable on the water.  Sometimes we get too caught up on what the "absolute best way" is and ignore the "best way given the circumstances".  The variable here is the ability of the individual.

BTW, I do have a little mountaineering background.  I was never fast nor was I that strong at elevation.  But I always made it up and down safely.

-Allen
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 18, 2006, 09:30:48 AM
Quote
The variable here is the ability of the individual.

Good point and good to keep it out front there to remind everyone we are talking about us each making our own individual assessments for ourselves. Any guildelines like "speed is safety" need to be taken in that context: a general principle which can be materially changed by accounting for an individuals abilities, skill, expereince, judgment, and conditions. Not ot mention tastes  :smt003
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on October 18, 2006, 11:41:57 AM
Hey Scwafish (or anyone else with the knowledge),

How does performance and fishability of the Dodo compare with a P15 or Tarpon 16?  Is there a marked improvement in either... enough to warrant a 2.5x increase in price?  Don't get me wrong... I'm a BIG fan of glass and epoxy... and the Dodo's "wow" factor is definitely immense (that is one pretty kayak) , but is there really that much of a difference in the "functionality" of these three vessels?

Thanks for helping out a nube... or is that newb?

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 18, 2006, 08:13:38 PM
These boats certainly paddle better (if you fit).  Do they fish better???....that is all relative,and dependant on what your doing and where your going.  They are more accurately marketed as the next thing, for the fisherman who has grown into paddling, and wants to maximize the enjoyment of both pursuits....fishing and paddling simultaneously.

Regardless, I think these would be a poor choice for a newb, unless you were an experienced kayaker first, fisherman second.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on October 18, 2006, 08:42:29 PM
Hi Scwa,

Poor choice because of the narrow beam?  What if I don't want to outgrow a "barge" in two weeks... not that I'm seriously considering the Dodo?  Also, you mentioned fiberglass or epoxy as construction options... isn't it epoxied glass?  I'm confused.  Is there a weight difference between the two "construction methods"?

On a side note... have you clocked yourself on your gps yet??????  Inquiring minds want to know...

Thanks,

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: ScottThornley on October 18, 2006, 08:55:55 PM
Polepole - it wasn't a "totally out of synch" situation, but a matter of degree. Tom was only packing 7-8 extra pounds or so, not really everything but the kitchen sink. This amount of weight is enough to add on an extra hour though, when you consider its affect at altitude and on your balance while climbing and descending. Had we hit the trail at dark, we'd have been home free. As it was, we decided that just moving enough to keep warm was the safest overall  way to spend the night.


SurfingMarmot - are you really off mountaineering for good? I'd still like to get up Mt Sill. I've attempted it twice. One time we got snowed off, the second time I woke up with the flu in Sam Mack meadow.  The Swiss Arete keeps calling me. BTW - the October trip was originally to the East side to do the U-notch, but because of recent snows, we bailed to the West side. So we had to traverse from our camp below Thunderbolt to the gully we ascended to get to the summit. It was the traverse below the North Palisade across the talus that was the problem in the dark.

Sean - I agree with your first paragraph entirely. Fisherman that want to paddle are pretty well taken care of.  Paddlers that want to fish comfortably are yet to be fully catered to, but I don't think it will be long before they are. Kaskazi and Paddleyak are very close. IMHO, if you blended bits of the Dorado and Kingfisher together, you'd be 99% there.  And if what you've told me about the Dorado's stability is true, I'd also have no qualms whatsoever in putting a new paddler in a Dorado. We'd do paddling skill development for an hour, and then go fishing. Rods would be tethered :) Locale, conditions and targeted species would also be geared to a new paddler.


Regards,
Scott
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on October 18, 2006, 09:01:51 PM
Hi Scott,

I'm in... where do I sign up?  You teach, I'll flip... then we fish.  I can't get the images of that boat outta my head... definitely beats tupperware IMHO.

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 18, 2006, 09:30:57 PM
Sean, I think you nailed it--they don't *fish* better. We, as fishers, are responsible for that part of it.

Do they paddle better, farther, faster, and handle more challenging conditons--yes--but only in the hands of those experienced enough to handle them. Any boat is a tool and tools requires an experienced person to bring out its best. It is after all and inanimate object--its the paddler who makes it 'come alive'.

 I'd encourage those with paddling expereince to try these new boats. If you don't know your high brace from a low brace, you might be better in a Prowler, Tarpon, Cobra, or Malibu for your first boat. This will come later much like your first skis are not Giant Slalom models.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 19, 2006, 05:33:45 AM
Quote
Poor choice because of the narrow beam? 


Its the loose primary stability that I feel would be unsettling for a newb.  While their is plenty of secondary stability, most newbs don't want to explore that territiory at first.  Beyond that glass boats are significantly more fragile.  Many folks new to yaks have a lot to learn about schlepping boats around in general, this is a no mercy learning platform.  Finally, they are expensive, if you end up not liking the whole endevour, your out a pile of cash.

Quote
What if I don't want to outgrow a "barge" in two weeks...


I've been a this a while now and still choose to paddle a barge frequently.  Sometimes the all out utility of a fat plastic boat is impossible to beat.  If you do outgrow one, they are easy to sell for a fair price, especially if you take good care of it.   Many also hang onto their first boat as a spouse or buddy boat.   

Quote
Also, you mentioned fiberglass or epoxy as construction options... isn't it epoxied glass?  I'm confused.  Is there a weight difference between the two "construction methods"?


Yes, the fabric remains the same, it is a different type of resin.  Glass has become the synonym for polyester resin.  An epoxy boat is approximately 10 pounds lighter.  Epoxy, in general, is more ductile and less likely to crack etc.  In addition, their is no gel coat on an epoxy boat.  Gelcoat is the most fragile part of "glass" construction.


Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on October 19, 2006, 07:28:28 AM
Hey Scwa,

Thanks for the info.  I agree with every one of your points... they are all reasons that I will start in plastic.  However, some newbs DO want to explore that area beyond primary stability... after all, that's where all the "performance" factors really come into play...

Also, I figured that when you said "glass" you meant polyester resin versus epoxy... just wanted to make sure.  In the surfboard world, we have to specify between the two... both use glass.  By the way, for anyone that has NOT worked with fiberglass, epoxy (instead of polyester resin) is THE way to go.  It's lighter, more flexy (less star cracks, etc.), not nearly as dangerous to work with, and easy to use/repair.  Plus, there are a lot of resources out there in both the surfboard world and the regular boat-building world.  I'd say as far as the Dodo is concerned, those are great reasons to spring a couple hundred extra bucks.

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: surfingmarmot on October 19, 2006, 07:36:35 AM
FYI, I'll be keeping a plastic boat if and when I go to fibreglas for the reason Sean mentioned. thisis jsut about a continual search for an personally ideal blend of performance and fishability.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on October 19, 2006, 08:00:54 AM
Agree completely on epoxy.  Polyester resin is for hot tubs.
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: Backslider on January 12, 2007, 03:32:31 PM
Hey Sean,

Are you still using the Dorado regularly?  If so, how about another update?

Backslider
Title: Re: Kazkazi Dorado...first paddle
Post by: SBD on January 12, 2007, 05:20:33 PM
I haven't had it out in a while.  I need to get it back on the water, it is very nice to paddle, but not right for what I've been doing lately.  Shopping for a ff for it too.