Fish Derby?

nseal67 Welcome aboard I hope you can join us on a Kayak as well as the forum.

Well this is turning into a heated thread so I must contribute my 2 cents(and just my opinion).

I like to fish live bait and I always catch it the day before, the way I see it the regs are unclear which means the fish cop will give you a ticket first chance he gets, however if you were cited you have the right to argue it before a judge. Personally if I ever got cited I would pay the fine and be done. now with that said Im always available to get live smelt if anyone needs some.


As far as the derby's go I think we should have a panel of local members decide the rules for a derby, rules are good and whatever happens we will all follow,

What happened to the days when we could have a talk here without resorting to bashing each other, I think the rookie needs to get schooled

but if we can not discuss...then we might as well live in Russia.
Ken kickfish

Just a side note: Plenty of discussion going on in Russia Ken. Been there plenty of times. Don't give in to the propaganda.

Z

nseal67 Welcome aboard I hope you can join us on a Kayak as well as the forum.

  Oh Ya....  Forgot that Part........

   Welcome to the Madness Nseal67          Like your " Sprackiness" ....

 Come on out , we have extra yaks,  jump on in!!!!! .......Danglin

As for making rules for a derby...  my vote is focus on the fishing. 

If the bait is legal in the place where it is being used, that's enough for me.  How it got there is too much to police.  The transportation question is a secondary issue and should not be in the scope of tournament rules. 

Whether or not the person had an 18" net on board with them... too much to police and secondary to the act of catching fish (i.e. it didn't affect the persons ability to catch fish or give an unfair advantage... out of scope). 

Whether or not the fish is of legal size and species and in season... that's a main focus.

Whether or not the person used too many rods or illegal hooks... can certainly act on that if there are witnesses (probably need two or more witnesses or hard evidence).

How the bait got to the location and when exactly it was harvested... that's meddling in my opinion.  Secondary issue. 

Sorry if this is redundant...

EK

Erik,

I see one problem in your way of thinking.  It makes it easier for the Bunny Huggers (PETA) to shut down the sport.  They look at our site and say to themselves.  OK they break the laws on this issue.  Then what else are they doing wrong?  Let's just get a ruling on the transportion issue.  Because, frankly I don't know which way is right.

I am a Duck, Deer and Dove Hunter.  That sport is going down the tubes because of all the negative image it projects.  Can happen to fishing.  You know the issue about banning Lead.  Just like what happen to Duck Hunting a while back.

Seems to me we have over 900 to 1000 members on this board.  Only, have maybe 30 to 50 people that post something.  You have too wonder who's who and who is not.

Ken kickfish

I understand whate you're saying Ken, but I don't believe my way of thinking is violative.  Just as you believe you're logic is correct and legal, I believe my logic is correct and legal.

I'm not proposing violating the law.  I believe that "transported alive from the water where taken" is intended to be viewed more widely than your view.

Hopefully the warden chimes in on the Coastside board.

EK

thank you, Brian for posting the ? for McKiver........  Hopefully he will weigh in with an accurate, usable response.  I'm going to try via phone calls today to Sacramento, wish me luck.

Again my attitude is, if it's DFG legal to transport live bait, then it should OK in a derby, depending on the specific rules for that specific derby.  Fro derbies, you have to have some specific rules, beyond the DFG regs..such as start time,. end time, area to fish (or paddle out from).  Certainly a derby organizer could impose "artificials only" rule, up to them or the sponsoring organization.

For the Perch Tourney and the MBK tourney, live bait is definitely allowed, and if it's legal.....then definitely transporting it is OK, too. 

(If it's not, does that mean I actually came in 1st at HMB??? Sorry Duane, had to say it.......I'm only kidding....I'm still totally stoked for your 1/2 inch of fame!!LOLLOL

At the perch derby, we had plenty of guys that bought bloodworms ghost or grass shrimp at Bayside bait shops and transported to the ocean for use......

There is definitely some ambiguity with the derby/dfg regs situation.  For instance, we know that an 18" net is regulation, but I rarely ever have one on board when I fish (except salmon fishing)....I've talked to DFG wrdens who tell me they would never give me a ticket for that lack of net, unless I was specifically out ther for salmon.....We never requiere that 18" net for derbies.  This transport question might be a candidate for the "grey area" classification.

Let me also add a welcome to nseal67.....Hope you get out kayak fishing with us soon.  Thank you for the complimentary attitude towards us kayak fishers.

More later If I can get some dfg answers............

Allen

Hey Bigdog,

These guys are transporting the bait from San Francisco Bay to Half Moon Bay?  I don't think is would be consider the same body of water.

San Francisco Bay (downstream of Carquinez Bridge) and the Ocean are for all intents and purposes, the same body of water.  Covered under the Ocean regulations.  Jacksmelt, anchovies, shiner perch, sardines, whatever... they are all present and can move freely between the bay and ocean.

I think the spirit of the regulation has to be considered because it is so poorly written and ill defined.  I agree with Art's comments in finding the spirit of the regulation. 

its supposed to prevent re-distribution of species between bodies of water and species collection for pet shops and restaurants.  And those are the only times I've heard of a citation being written for it. 

Otherwise, you could take it a step farther and claim that it is illegal to buy shiners at Loch Lomond or anchovies at Berkeley, and drive them in your car to your launch spot a few miles away.   The definition of "take" includes Hunt, pursue, catch, capture or kill.  By "capturing" my bait at Loch Lomond and transporting it, I would be in violation.   Keith Fraser would be an accessory to this grave crime.  Gimme a break.  Slippery slope.

EK

Well put Eric, couldn't have said it better myself.

Ken, I bet it was killing you all this time since the derby, I've never met you in person, but I can only imagine you'd be an honery cuss...

http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/yosemite/Sam08.wav

Allen,

I'm interested to hear what Sacramento says.  I'm hoping it's legal, cause I know of some great places to get smelt and shiners in Bodega Bay and I'd love to tease some lings and halibut with them.

As for Daune and the HMB tourney... nobody mentioned anything the day of the tournament and regardless of what we hear back from DFG there's no need to go back and change things.  In fact I really wish there was a better way to discuss this topic without involving the HMB tournament or Daune's good name.

At the perch derby, we had plenty of guys that bought bloodworms ghost or grass shrimp at Bayside bait shops and transported to the ocean for use......

There probably should be a reg about moving such species around, but as far as I know there isn't and reg 1.63 only refers to finfish.

Thanks for the welcome gentlemen! I would love to hop on a kayak and join you all but injuries prevent me from doing so. This is why I'm now confined to fishing from a lawn chair. But I do thank you all for the invitation.

I did not mean to bash anybody but it just seems like that there a few rotten apples in this fine group of outdoorsmen (and women). I guess this kind of personality can't be avoided since it is a public forum. I'm just sick and tired of reading posts that makes no sense at all. Some clown who brags about his Long range trips and how many expensive reels he owns is just someone who is insecure, lonely, bitter and PARANOID.

Seems to me we have over 900 to 1000 members on this board.  Only, have maybe 30 to 50 people that post something.  You have too wonder who's who and who is not.

I will continue to read and enjoy this forum just like many others do. I just hate reading a great thread and some num-nut starts posting nothing but crap. But every time this person posts something dumb or stupid, I will post this line "see what I mean". And I promise to leave it at that.

Sincerely Yours,
nseal67

As for making rules for a derby...  my vote is focus on the fishing. 

 

That sums it all up.  

As far as setting up a panel to establish rules, I think thats taking this crap too far.  The MBF concept completely goes out the window....thats what these events are supposed to be.  I understand the prizes are getting bigger which may induce shady behavior but I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONCERN CONSIDERING THE QUALITY OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE.  Seriously, how "money between friends" is it to see someone get ripped cause they weren't properly displaying their fishing license (I tuck mine uneder my life jacket all the time), their net was only 17" in diameter, or their stinger hook caught the outside of the fishes mouth.  Cheating is black and white and a technicality shouldn't determine the outcome.  The board itself is enough ethics committee....cross us and your out, nuff said. If your participation with this group is only worth the price of a kayak then good riddance to you......leave.

Duane, paddle that yak with pride my friend.  Your extra efforts paid off and you OUTSKILLED everyone else that day.

Hi Yakers:

            I'll bite, money,prizes...etc changes everything! Flame out, ChillLax and, lets go fishing.
                                                                                                                         Ernie

Ok, I'll be a hardcore cuss here...

If you finish in front of me, but don't have an 18" net on board, you will be challenged. It is the law, whether or not the DFG enforces it. I've had legal nets at all the derbies, even though they are a pain to deal with. It's also not a financial problem, as the $19.99 isn't going to break you.  Want to keep MBF friendly? Don't break the law...

As to the bait transportation issue, I think that there is a lot of historical precedent that goes a long with the term "location". Buying scoops of anchovies to fish the entire SF bay has a long historical background. Ditto for getting shiner perch from Oyster Point or Berkeley to fish the nearby SF Bay. I am unsure if there is a precedent of moving SF Bay bait to Half Moon Bay, but that's just a trip of 20 miles or so. Arguably in the same general location, though a judge may have a different opinion. But I doubt that anyone could argue that moving bait hundreds of miles could be considered using it in the same location. If you want to use live bait at Elk, I suggest that it be purchased or caught locally, not in the SF Bay.

One last comment. I'm not a perfectly law abiding citizen. But when I get pulled over for doing 78 in the fast lane just like all the cars in front of me and behind me, I still expect a ticket. Break the rules, expect to pay the price.

Regards,
Scott

Oh, and for the record....I am DEFENDING Duane and his legitimate win at HMB, albeit in a jocular manner.

Duane is a certified MONSTER fisherman!!!!! Good guy, gentleman, and possibly a tinker-genius. (good looking too) http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11502&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=a584580321f6af30c1e8c05f244ab0b8

This thread is about the ethics involved in using transported live bait in future derbies.  All past derbies are a done deal IMO.

Still no response from Sacramento.  Will post when and if.

Allen