Fish Derby?

Hi Bill,

I got a little beef about when we have Derby.  I don't fish them because my fishing days are when you guys are working ( Monday to Fridays).  But, it seems to me that the guys that catch the bait a day or night before the Derby Day should not be allow to fish.  It like fishing before the hours are set.  I know your only fishing for bait.  But, you are fishing to get a head of the others guys.

It is like the days when the BASS guys would go to the lake and catch the Large Mouth Bass a day or two ahead.  Then keeps them in traps until it really counted.

You are fishing on the day and during the hours posted for the derby.    That would be OK. I would be OK with the rules if the person would start to catch his or her bait when the DFG and Daylight Hours said it was OK to fish.  Then transport it to the fishing grounds. Or you can set up a the rules "as No live Bait".

Ken kickfish

But, it seems to me that the guys that catch the bait a day or night before the Derby Day should not be allow to fish.

Yea and what about the guys that go to the tackle shop and buy all their tackle before the Derby.
We also need to outlaw sniffing Power Bait. 

It seems to me that the buying tackle is OK.  I am a Tackle Whore.  Just got 3 Shimano Stellas and 3 Calcuttas TE for the H*ll of it.  I don't think you would see Bass Pros buying minnows before the Big Show.  Or, a fly fishing guy buying power bait or worms before going to a stream.  Him saying "I got that trout on a Dry Fly tip with power bait."

I use bait.  Don't get me wrong.  Minnows, anchovies, worms and power bait.  But, I am not fishing derbies with them.  I fish weekdays.

If you are catching bait before the Derby has started.  Then, what is wrong with fishing the Derby the day or night before?  Catching bait you are still fishing.  No?

Is there really any talent to setting a hook on a fish with live bait.  I think not.  Once, you get the right hook, line, sinker, rod set-up.....then its a No Brainer.

Just my 2 cents.  Just outlaw live bait and there is no problem.

Ken kickfish

Ken... with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more.  I absolutely cannot see where you are coming from. 

And if you don't fish the derbies, why do you have a beef?  You don't even have a "dog in the fight".

How exactly is harvesting bait the day before akin to fishing the derby ahead of time?  It makes no sense.

What if a person went and BOUGHT live bait the night before a derby and kept it alive all night so that they had fresh live bait at the crack of dawn to start fishing the tournament?  What would be the difference between that person and the person who caught the bait the night before for themselves.  They show up for the tourney ready and prepared to fish... and they don't have to spend valuable early morning tournament time trying to scratch up bait. 

Extra effort pays off in derbies.  Those who put in the time to get the primo bait and maximize their FISHING hours during the tourney are ahead of the game and are maximizing their chances at winning.  Those who don't are limiting themselves.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get where you're coming from.

EK

I don't fish them because my fishing days are when you guys are working ( Monday to Fridays).

Why worry about it?  It won't affect you one way or another.

Ahhhhhhh,okay????

I will point out that transporting live fish is against the DFG regulations.  There are a few exceptions to this (certain minnows like golden shiners in some counties).  In particular catching bait in one body of water and transporting them to another would be wrong.  However, the reg could be interpretated to include transporting bait home overnight to use in fishing the next day. 

If you'd like to look them up, the regs are 1.63 (in both FW and SW regs) and 4.00 - 4.35 (in the FW regs) and 230 which is really hard to track down but deals with culling of black bass in some tournaments.

1.63 - Except as provided in sections 4.00 through
4.30 and 230, live fin fish may not be transported
alive from the water where taken.

And here's relevant thread from the Coastside's "Warden McKiver" forum...

http://www.coastsidefishingclub.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=DFG&Number=3781

Anyway, my personal feeling regarding bait and tournaments would be to allow bait in general, either dead bait or bait you catch the day of the tournament during tournament hours.  Catching and keeping live bait ahead of time just gets you into issues with 1.63.  The exception being certain freshwater tournaments where people are legally buying minnows (part of the regs in 4.00-4.35).     

Brian

I make lures so I am not a big bait fan. 

However as long as you are following the DFG reg Warden Bsteves  pointed out above, I don't see a problem using live bait in general or getting it the day before the event. I like to try to keep running events from becoming too much of a hassle. The more rules we have the less fun it is. Would I have to check everyones bait before they left the launch? Do some DNA testing to determine the water of origin? I have enough of a problem getting people to sigh a waiver...

Section 4.05(a) "Approved bait fish may be taken only by hand, with a dip net, or with traps not over three feet in greatest dimension. Such bait fish may not be purchased, bartered, sold, transferred or traded; or transported alive from the location where taken."

This kinda doesn't make sense.  what about catching bait with sabikis??  I think there is probably more context mising here.

My take on the original issue is , if it is not legal to transport live baitfish according to DFG, then that bait should not be allowed in tourneys, where it's specifically expressed that all DFG regulations must be adhered to. 

If it's legal by DFG to transport, then I say fine, a matter of good dedicated preparation.

Allen

I will fish the Derby one day again.  I will not be on the weekend shift much longer.  I have no problem with people using a small rockcod that they have previous caught on the day of the Derby.  The real issue is the transportation.  Is it not?

Also, a got of guys who fish these things (without live bait) are in a disadvance right off the start.

Ken kickfish

If you're gonna get all technical your not supposed to move the live baitfish 2 inches from the spot you caught it.  If thats the case then why is it legal for me to pick up a sand dab over sand then transport it to a rock and use it for bait????  The only real interpretation of these regs is that they're poorly written.  This topic comes up often and I have yet to ever hear of anyone getting cited for it when it pertains to BAIT.  IMO its supposed to prevent re-distribution of species between bodies of water and species collection for pet shops and restaurants.  And those are the only times I've heard of a citation being written for it.  

BTW...comparing live bait use to weighing in a pre trapped fish for a cash prize....WTF????? Not even close.    

It would be good if we could have the "from the water where taken" bit clarified.  My understanding was they meant "water body".  For example, you can catch your own minnows in Lake Tahoe and use them in Lake Tahoe, but you can't take the minnows to some other lake to fish with them.

So Art,

What you saying is everything is OK to use...J-hooks for salmon, more than 2 hooks for Rockcod,  3 or 4 poles, unless you get caught?  So, the guys who get the prizes and winners even if they break a few laws to do it?Then why do we have laws and regulations anyway?

There are lakes in the bay area the do not allow live bait.  Lets say we have a Derby there and some guys fish with live bait there.  It does not have to be the bait.  It can be the water with the worms or snails that can cause havoc in this lake.  It is Davis Lake all over again.

Ken kickfish

Why let someone catch bait the night before? This gives them an advantage? Let me see, do you make your artificial lures the morning of the derby? No? They are made in advance?

Sheesh, what a lame complaint.

Hey Bigdog,

These guys are transporting the bait from San Francisco Bay to Half Moon Bay?  I don't think is would be consider the same body of water.

Ken kickfish