AOTY-2011????

[ravensblack]

 "I don't think a 33 or 66 point difference over the year is going to make a difference"


Well, if you look at the standings with one day to go your point is worthless.

[polepole]

I see no point in belaboring that my opinions are my own other than a crude attempt to shut me up.

If I wanted you to shut up, I'd ask you to.  No crude attempt needed.

My statement that every competitor is fishing for the maximum score is true & irrefutable.

Max TOTAL score, of which sturgeon would potentially be 1/10.

I see support for doing the right thing and you don't.

Your definition of the right thing.  That doesn't make it the right thing for everyone.

The difference is I have been talking with every single angler I ran into all year long regarding this subject and every single one of them agreed with me on this subject. If you doubt the integrity of that statement then you are mistaken.

I don't doubt the integrity of that statement.  But, not one angler I've talked to, other than you, believes sturgeon points need to be raised.  If you doubt the integrity of that statement then you are mistaken.

I speak to the desire of the competitors to do the right thing if they had a voice which apparently they don't.

You absolutely do NOT speak for every competitor.

It sounds like there will be even more points given to crappie, perch, and flounder in an attempt to 'raise their median value' and possibly less for sturgeon, wsb, and steelhead to lower their median value.

Really?  Who said that?

Have you been flooded with support to do all that?

To tell you the truth, I have exactly zero comments in my inbox other than from you.  So I infer that the majority of participants are fine with the status quo.  I just don't see the overwhelming support for what you are stating.

-Allen

[Salty.]

Brian extracted statistical information on AOTY catches over all of time and used the current point values.  Statistically speaking WSB is the best.  Sturgeon, Steelhead, and Greenling are next.  The rest are mostly decent with flounder being an the worst on the other end of things.

So, I don't actually think the sturgeon argument hold water. Are greenling over-valued?  Yes.  Are flounder under-valued?  Yes.

-Allen

[Salty.]

any talk that I'm aware of about changing the rules for 2011 AOTY.  The only thing we might do is adjust some points per inch-Allen

If crappie & perch are 're-adjusted' to reflect 150 point average for say a 10" fish being average then they both will go up from 12 to 15 points each so this year's 15"ers would have been worth 225. I don't like that but I could live with it if & only if sturgeon were given their just value and then a max dino at 3.6 points would equal 237.6. jim

[polepole]

Really Jim, you need to take a chill pill.  Or put a tinfoil hat on.  

I noted factual observations about points for various species.

I commented that we MIGHT adjust points and that was in separate, earlier post, with no specific reference to any species.

And I never commented on crappie or perch.

-Allen

[polepole]

You be the judge.

-Allen

[Salty.]

Again with the shutting me up? I recall something about 're-adjusting' each species to reflect 'average' value of 150 points. Since I believe that perch, crappie, & greenling are slightly, but not much, already over-valued.....well I'm throwing that out there for everyone to digest. But dinos are the real problem. jim

PS: As far as tinfoil goes how do you like this?  

[polepole]

If you are going to try to quote me, keep it in context.   Nothing definitive said here.

There hasn't been any talk that I'm aware of about changing the rules for 2011 AOTY.  The only thing we might do is adjust some points per inch, but even that hasn't been discussed.  Sometimes it's easier to just leave things as is ...

-Allen

And I took great pains to make sure the 150 points comment wasn't to be taken as gospel.  "Roughly" doesn't mean exactly.  And "something like that" doesn't mean exactly either.

Do you all know that one of the outcomes of the first AOTY's was just to get people out fishing for a variety of fish they normally didn't fish for?

And ... the points per inch were roughly calculated assuming an good size for a particular fish resulted in 150 points and that a great fish should push 200 points.  Or something like that.  The scoring was never intended to take into account the relative difficultly of catching various species.

It would be very easy for us to just calculate the mean or median size caught in the history of AOTY for each species and determine points per inch that results in 150 points for that size.  Level the playing field ... apply math and out pops a number, no need to add any subjectivity (emotions?) into this.   

-Allen

Brian and I talked over using the median and setting it to something like 150.  It didn't work out at first pass because as you can see from the chart, there are some species with huge variations in points.  Setting the mean to 150 made things unbalanced in other regards.

Nice tin outfit!!!

-Allen

[ravensblack]

Cute outfit Jim. When you get nuked you wont feel a thing.

[Salty.]

And ... the points per inch were roughly calculated assuming an good size for a particular fish resulted in 150 points and that a great fish should push 200 points. 

Brian and I talked over using the median and setting it to something like 150.  It didn't work out at first pass because as you can see from the chart, there are some species with huge variations in points.  Setting the mean to 150 made things unbalanced in other regards.

Nice tin outfit!!!

-Allen

Hey I'm glad you guys came to that conclusion. As I said before I think the other species are O.K. except sturgeon. I apologize for slightly quoting out of context. Just trying my best to advocate for the poor maligned sturgeon here. 
Hopefully this discussion will spur others to think about the subject.
Anglers can bet on a decent chance of catching a perch, a crappie, a greenling, etc every year.....but the same cannot be said of catching a legal kayak sturgeon, of any size, every single year. There is a reason why the limit is only three per year and of all the game fish in CA that is unique. I know the 'current' rules do not take any of that into account but.....just maybe they should.
I wish others that agree with me would chime in but I'm not gonna hold my breath.  jim

[Sailfish]

IMO, I think some people here take AOTY too serious!   

[Salty.]

Some people make a simple request.....and get what they want.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,21879.0.html

[yakhopper]

I agree that STURGEON are the hiccup in the whole deal but I still don't see them as harder to catch.
I have certainly caught more large sturgeon than large catfish. I have also caught more large Sturgeon than Large Greenling. Also More large Sturgeon than large Lingcod. In fact it would be safe to say that Sturgeon are pretty easy to catch as long as you are patient enough to wait till they are feeding. Believe it or not this is true for almost any fish - if you wait till they are either feeding or spawning most fish most fish become easier to catch. So why the big fuss over Sturgeon - because they have a limited size of catch? If this is the case than to be fair to all anglers the min. legal size should represent the least amount of any other measurable species and the max. legal size should be equal to the max of any other measurable species. Of course we could always take the lead from the Govt. and just block it from the competition and say we are trying to protect it.
Just my 2-cents

[Salty.]

Eric, I wish I could catch ANY sturgeon. I think it's great you are so good at catching them but.....where is your 2010 AOTY sturgeon? 

[otobepelagic]

Sturgeon ....easy to catch? I want to fish alongside you! Let me see....when I first signed on to this site it seemed they were the most difficult to catch but that was when there were only ten fish. Now it seems a crappy is the new sturgeon.