Questions for the "Membership"

why all the hate for lurkers? are you afraid they are going to read your posts. do you resent them for not responding to your posts? are you mad because they are getting all this great info for free? are they stealing your thoughts? what you need to do is write all the names and gps coordinates of your secret spots on a secret piece of paper. then fold it up real tight and hide it in your attic.

How about if I, personally, could care less about promoting the sport and just want a place to rap BS with the boys and post epic reports of my bloody adventures?

You talking to me?...  Why don't you post a little hookup and embrace it turning into a 45 kayaks OTW free tournee before improperly using "could care less"...   

why all the hate for lurkers?

are you afraid they are going to read your posts. do you resent them for not responding to your posts? are you mad because they are getting all this great info for free? are they stealing your thoughts? what you need to do is write all the names and gps coordinates of your secret spots on a secret piece of paper. then fold it up real tight and hide it in your attic.

Where's the hate?   

I've already taken lots of members to my favorite spots (constantly), so I'm not sure why the barrage of arrows.

I'm not even worried about my spots, and I think I promote the sport better than most, so...  enough said.   

If Bill needs some bucks to help run the site, I'm happy to help.

That's the only legitimate reason for a fee on this site IMHO. However, the more active the site and the more active members, the better fees and revenue are and the less likely a member fee will be needed.

One of the beautiful aspects of this site (and others like it) is that it is organic.  It just happens.  There is very little planning going on as to how it occurs.  And admin, for the most part, is minimal.

Growing the site requires more money and more admin.
Limiting the site requires more money and more admin.

If you want a different site, I'd say to you "start a different site".

-Allen

1)  When do we have "enough" members?

I'll answer:  it depends on what your agenda is...  For Bill and anyone else who wants the site to continue growing more is better - nothing wrong with that.  If you're an "OG" though, and you think back to the days when we were more excited to meet new yak-fishermen and share some time with them, more members is starting to mean more changes in the way we post.  It's a fact that at some point there are just too many voices/potential fishing partners/PM's/requests for info...etc.

What is Bill's agenda? I don't see the benefit of a membership cap.

2)  How do we keep the site special as it grows?

I'll answer:  it depends on what your agenda is...  This is a tricky one.  I believe that Bill's agenda is to keep the site special, but I also know that he'd be a fool to limit its growth without careful consideration.  That said, I think we need to become more exclusive so we are able to keep it special.

I think Bill should weigh in. I am not an OG, and the site seems pretty special, but to the OGs out there, maybe it's changed.

3)  Doesn't $10/year seem like peanuts to pay for membership?

Maybe not. Where exactly will the money go? I have seen the posts in support of Bill and I'm absolutely there too, 100%, but have I missed a technical issue looming based on n more users? The owner of the site should get to make the rules, and if he wants to make a limited membership club based on money, this is the way to go, BUT, if any yahoo can plunk down a tenner and foul the well, how effective is it? I suppose I'd be one of those yahoos since I don't hookup (I prefer to seek isolation for my fishing therapy) but I enjoy living vicariously through the members who are more active. I have my minimum number of posts, I've participated in a couple tournys...am I not special too?   But seriously, how will the club decide who's cool enough?

You talking to me?... 

Just my thoughts, but keeping it free would promote people into the sport, whereas charging for the site might shy someone away that may have interest in learning about kayak fishing, and joining so that they can learn and be part of our community.

How about if I, personally, could care less about promoting the sport and just want a place to rap BS with the boys and post epic reports of my bloody adventures?

For what its worth even though I knew I wouldn't be doing a whole lotta yakin I'm in AOTY as well....have not registered a single fish and will likely do it again next year......much like the Mooch, I just do it for the ladies.

As an OG, I think we can all think of small improvements that don't make it a different site in the main but improve it as a community. OG Sean suggested fewer categories for instance. The practicality of implementing any of them will be determined by the people who do the work here.

much like the Mooch, I just do it for the ladies.

Fishing kayaks are babe magnets no doubt about it. Now if you could attach a Vanilla Lab or other cute but manly dog (I prefer ESS) to one, it's a killer combo.  

No offense to El Jefe Sean--he's a man's dog no doubt and Chihuahuas peg the "cute meter" needle.

o.k. well maybe hate is too strong of a word. i have to admit i never seen anything but kindness and generosity flow from abking. that is why i dont understand why he wants to institute fees to eliminate lurkers. lurkers are just regular people like you and me. perhaps they don't have the time or inclination to post. isnt that o.k.? maybe they feel intimidated or shy. maybe they are just to lazy. isnt that o.k.?  some times i just lurk for weeks at a time. mostly cause i dont have anything meaningful to add to the conversation. i think that instituting fees for the purpose of excluding certain types of people is wrong. futhermore, fees may prevent some really cool people on really tight budgets from participating.

It would be best to hear from Eric what motivated him to break from his usual generous and positive nature. He sets an example for me on this board and I have a lot of work to do in that area. Maybe he saw the kerfuffle about Big Sur and felt he wanted to help set us back on a positive track. I don't know. Eric?

i dont understand why Eric wants to institute fees...

He don't.  Just wants everyone to get on the same kickass vibe, again.  Contributing, posting, feeling good like a hard day should.

I'm extremely torn on this issue. I've been a member of a few dues paying clubs in the past (not for kayaking) and it was a great experience, although a different experience from what NCKA has been for me.

If there were a dues paying kayak fishing club, I would probably join it now that I have a yak and prefer fishing from it over any other kind of fishing. But, I'm not sure that I would like to see NCKA change into a dues paying club.

If NCKA were dues paying then I probably never would have gotten into this type of fishing. I was just trolling around the internet one day when I remembered talking with JTF one day about his kayak fishing hobby. I remembered the name vaguely and after a few google searches I found NCKA. I trolled for a bit, read a few posts, and found myself returning to the site more often than not. Yes, I followed a few reports for my shore fishing escapades. But, I began to see a pretty good group of folks on the site and became more interested in trying this kayak fishing thing out. About 8 or 9 months after finding NCKA I bought my first yak. If this was a dues paying site, I never would have gotten beyond the home page, and I likely would not have bought a kayak.

So, my thought is this. Leave NCKA the way it is and allow it to change as it's membership changes. After all, Bill and the OG's who started this site have always made it about the members. I'm good with NCKA right now, but I wasn't one of the originals on this site either.

If we want something beyond what this site has evolved into, then maybe some folks should look into starting a dues paying club. For me, if a dues paying club were started, I would apply to join. I don't want to sound elitist, but I like the "vibe" I've had in past dues paying groups. It becomes kind of like dad's old Elks Club or when I used to go with a friend's dad down to the VFW. Something about saying "I'm willing to pay to be part of this group" tends to ratchet up the "brotherhood factor."

I think Fishin-Jay hit it on the head as far as why I started this. 

Something about saying "I'm willing to pay to be part of this group" tends to ratchet up the "brotherhood factor."

I am really NOT looking for a site fee, and I really don't have anything against lurkers - I was just telling Domenic today, "I found my lurker and married him - his name's Domenic!"  We got a good laugh out of it, but it's true!   

Yakuza hit it too:

i dont understand why Eric wants to institute fees...

He don't.  Just wants everyone to get on the same kickass vibe, again.  Contributing, posting, feeling good like a hard day should.

I recognize these changes we're having, and I want to find a way to perpetuate the kickass vibe.  I was probably feeling pessimistic when I posted this, because the vibe is of course still alive.  The dynamics that we're seeing have so much to do with the state of fisheries, and that is probably the root of my actions.  See, it's because we have too many people and dwindling resources that we get all uptight about "spots" at all...  Isn't it?  I'd better shut up now.

Sorry if I had a tone of defensiveness, Jack and Art, and thanks, everyone, for posting your POV.

my intro to NCKA was Elk watching all these guys and gals pulling there yaks up that hill! Talking with um, bunch asked me to join the dinner...but I felt out of place...and didn't, thanks though...but everyone kept saying "man u need to join this, it's so cool, u can win prizes, meet other fisher folk... @ the time had little $$$ had just lost my biz sort on the down and outs...but these people inspired me...nxt yr I'm @ OC meet another bunch of folks, yak fishing, me...I still was float tubing..."man u got to hook up with us"... that fall got a yak, my second season i think maybe three(time flies)  ...but sorta forgot about what everyone was saying bout NCKA than met Bloodbath/Joe and his old lady, he whips up this Asian dish with a red that u couldn't believe and he's like "dude u got to get on the webpage and sign-up its free" I didn't sign up until recently and know nothing bout lurkers/trolls...i sort of hit the site running  it took 3 meetings with NCKAers to hook me up....my probs the camera... but things will change...


But this site shouldn't...I'm (out going) so it's easy to put it out there...but others are not...maybe it just takes a while to get into...I'm not shy at all and I felt intimatedted on my first posting! but after u do it...the response u get back are huge, everyone rocks...a few get out of hand once in a while but than they and make up, and its all good...if i had to pay I would, but, I think the free gets um in...really it's the people u meet and the vibe they put out there, that seals the deal!!! and oh yeah its free check it out...I talk to almost anyone on a yak unless I'm chumming yesterday fishin blue lakes, met 2 older gentlemen in hobbies, they paddle up and start checking my yak out and I say "wheres your fishing poles???" and hold up a stringer of fish...post up coming with pics ... than ask are u a member of NCKA one guy says that he had seen it on the internate...I start telling them about it!! its a bunch of folks that like to fish and we have meets and told them about Albion and Reelknots (Kiel) <-sp? prise congrats again (bill) didn't know it was kiel untill it was annonced...and all the food and fun...now if they meet the next NCKA crew and they get that great vibe, guess what???


maybe there should be a 6 month free trial and if u like what u found than maybe a fee if needed...I would gladly pay...this site ROCKS!!! NCKA we love ya man!!!

i've been watching another site tear itself apart.  very painful.     whatever you decide to do, i'd recommend small changes, very slowly.  this place and all of you are truely unique!

I think this is big case of growing pains. Early on we kinda knew most everyone on the site and were very happy to tell people we were part of NCKA and publicize the site. Now that the membership has grown so large, it's kind of taken the personal relationships out of the picture.

I too signed up for AOTY again this year, but haven't posted a single fish. I'm sure we will all get through this uncomfortable time, and hopefully we can all adapt to the change.

See you on the water.....if I can ever kill a deer..................2 cents!